Welcome to Litsy!

The Autumn Springs Retirement Home Massacre | Philip Fracassi

Rainy day outside, but both book club boxes were delivered today!

Super excited for the @AardvarkBookClub exclusive anthology One Bad Night! #aardvark

I‘m also really looking forward to The Book of Guilt and trying #botm‘s Volume 0!

Stocking up for November and December when I can‘t go anywhere because of poinsettias!

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Allergic | Megan Wagner Lloyd

pick

I have a soft spot for MG graphic novels, and I really enjoyed this one available on hoopla.

10 yo Maggie loves animals and has been promised a puppy for her birthday, but at the shelter she has an allergic reaction and finds out she can‘t have anything with fur or feathers!! She learns to live with this while adjusting to a new sibling and a new school. Great coming of age for the kids!

65 likes

The Signature of All Things: A Novel

All the Way to the River | Elizabeth Gilbert

pick

Gilbert is one of those memoirists that I want to roll my eyes at half the time but the other half I want to hug her for getting at such universal truths about human nature. I did enjoy this look at the death of her long-time friend turned partner Reyya Elias and the insight it gave her into her own problems with sex and love addiction. It‘s a #borrownotbuy for me.

Suet624 A good description of my relationship with her as well 4w

Megabooks @Suet624 she‘s an interesting woman for sure, and I appreciate her introspection. The book I‘ve really loved from her was The Signature of All Things. When I read that in 2013, it just hit at the right time.

(edited) 4w

Suet624 Yes, I liked that one too. I wish you would write more fiction. Elizabeth is quite able to deliver a line in a unique and special way that can hit you right in the heart but sometimes I just feel like she‘s a bit of a poser. 4w

75 likes3 comments

Replaceable You: Adventures in Human Anatomy | Mary Roach

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Mary continues to be the most delightful pop sci author I‘ve read! In this one, she takes a look at the people and technology around replacement or adapted body parts. She talks to experts in hair transplants and how they might provide a window in to developing other autologous organs. She looks at the challenges of 3D printing tissues. And hangs out with ostomy patients and folks with prostheses to learn more about how those affect their lives.

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The Autumn Springs Retirement Home Massacre | Philip Fracassi

So I went with an all-horror box this time from @AardvarkBookClub ! If you had told me I‘d be reading 2-3 horror books every month 5 or 6 years ago, I wouldn‘t have believed you! 😂

Still having trouble recovering from my spay. There were issues that happened in pre-op and with anesthesia that went awry that I tried to prevent and correct, and it‘s just incredibly frustrating. I did see my dad for the first time in over 2 weeks yesterday, ⬇️

Megabooks and that was really wonderful for both of us! And I am so glad that the person we‘ve hired to help Mom in the evenings until I‘m better can come another week. So slow progress is better than no progress. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Going to try to write a few reviews tonight. 4w

Suet624 I‘m so sorry about the complications. 💕 4w

vlwelser I wish you a speedy recovery. I have also been reading more horror and sci fi than ever before. It's an escape. 4w

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Prairiegirl_reading I‘m glad to hear you on the up-swing! Wishing you continued healing! 4w

BarbaraBB Glad you‘re able to write some reviews and indeed who would have thought you‘d read so much horror?! Wishing you the best regarding your recovery ❤️‍🩹 4w

CarolynM Hope you‘re feeling better soon 💐 4w

58 likes6 comments

The Ten Year Affair | Erin Somers

First! Thank you to everyone who checked in and wished me well post surgery!! Healing has been slower than I hoped - possibly due to my MCAS and some anesthesia issues.

I‘m hoping Ten Year Affair gives Sliding Doors! Flat Earth is a risk based on reviews I‘ve read, but why not? Has anyone tried the Volume 0? I liked the authors in this one, so I thought I‘d give it a shot. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

Librarybelle I‘m glad you‘re doing well! I somehow missed your surgery info. So glad you checked in! ❤️ 1mo

TheLudicReader Hope you are back on your feet soon. 1mo

AmyG Glad to hear all is good. Slow and steady. Wishing you a good recovery. 1mo

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Bookwormjillk Sending healing vibes 1mo

BarbaraBB Take care of yourself dear Meg! I am looking forward to The Book of Guild! 1mo

KT1432 Oh no! Sending you well wishes for recovery! I definitely want to get The Book of Guilt. It sounds so eerie! I‘m interested in The Ten Year Affair because from the sample I read I enjoyed the writing, but I just finished Seduction Theory and didn‘t quite care for it lol so I think I‘ll get Ten Year from the library. 1mo

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We Love You, Bunny | Mona Awad

I‘m 8 days post (human) spay, and I‘m doing pretty well! I‘m still not quite well enough to drive, but I‘m off pain meds and taking it easy.

I treated myself to 3 books - the BN exclusive of We Love You Bunny, which I just started, plus a signed Lockwood and the new Kim Hooper.

I‘m just now able to concentrate well on reading. I‘ve reread a couple of favorites on audio, but started my first new listen with Mary Roach‘s latest! ⬇️

TheBookHippie Oh I‘m so happy to see this. I hope you continue to heal. 💙 1mo

Megabooks Thank you to everyone for the well wishes before surgery 💜💜💜 and thank you @cbee 🫶🏻 for tagging me in your post about

Woman on the Verge

1mo

Megabooks @TheBookHippie thanks so much Christine! 1mo

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Ruthiella Glad you are doing well post surgery. ❤️ Curious to hear how you like the Lockwood. I loved Priestdaddy but have not got on with her fiction. 1mo

vlwelser Wishing you a speedy recovery and lots of good books. 1mo

willaful I hope you continue to recover well! 🌷 🌹 1mo

Lesliereadsalot Wishing you a speedy recovery! 1mo

CarolynM Hope your recovery keeps going smoothly and you‘re feeling properly well soon💐💕 1mo

Hooked_on_books Lockwood doesn‘t really work for me and I‘m not a cat fan, but that truly is one of the best covers of the year. 1mo

BarbaraBB Good you‘re feeling better ❤️ I bought the Hooper and Lockwood too! 1mo

squirrelbrain Glad to hear you‘re recovering well! I have an ARC of the Lockwood, just didn‘t get to it before pub date. 1mo

ferskner Oooooo I've been there, and I wish you all the relaxing reading time possible! 1mo

RaeLovesToRead Great selection! Sending well wishes for your recovery 💕 1mo

Tamra Happy reading recovery! 1mo

LeahBergen I‘m glad to hear you‘re feeling better! 1mo

CBee @Megabooks you‘re welcome 💚 Wishing you better and better days ahead as you continue to recover 🫂 1mo

Jeg Best wishes for your recovery and lots of reading. 1mo

Reggie Hope you‘re feeling better, Meg. 1mo

Suet624 Best wishes on your recovery. 💕 1mo

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The Book of Guilt | CATHERINE. CHIDGEY

Squee!!! Yay!!! New mid-month #botm add-on from the author of Pet!!! Definitely in my box next month 😁💜👍🎉

Bookwormjillk Sounds interesting 2mo

BarbaraBB I have this one on my shelves! I‘ve loved Pet and the tagged one and @squirrelbrain says this one is very good too!

The Axeman's Carnival

2mo

Lesliereadsalot Got this one on my library list! 2mo

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squirrelbrain Yes, this one is very good but Axeman is fabulous! @BarbaraBB 2mo

BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain It is, right? Have youread it @Megabooks ? 2mo

TheBookHippie Checking in to see how you‘re doing. Hope surgery goes/went well. ♥️ 1mo

BarbaraBB How are you Meg? I hope all went well. Did you get my email? ❤️ 1mo

Megabooks @BarbaraBB I did dear friend! Thank you! Surgery was Thursday. I‘ve had more jobs to do after this one than any other surgery, so not much time to write, but I will soon!! 1mo

BarbaraBB @Megabooks No hurry just super glad to hear you‘re okay 💝 1mo

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Buckeye | Patrick Ryan

so-so

Perhaps without the hype I would‘ve enjoyed this one more. Lots of anachronisms, which drives me bananas. I liked the start with the parents, but when it got to their kids‘ lives it devolved into trite, well trod boomer lit fic. The narrator was great, which was good because it was almost 16 hours!!

AmyG Thanks for this post. Saved me from reading this. As a U of Michigan Wolverine, I do not want to read a book titled Buckeye. Iykyk 🤣 2mo

sarahbarnes @AmyG 😂😂😂 2mo

Chelsea.Poole @amyg we are buckeyes here, so I can imagine how yucky this title is for you lol! 2mo

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Chelsea.Poole Sorry to hear this one didn‘t work for you. I have this on audio and had high hopes. I‘ll temper my expectations. 2mo

AmyG @Chelsea.Poole Ha! And let me say….you might just be my favorite Buckeye. 2mo

Chelsea.Poole @AmyG right back at you! (Wolverine!) 2mo

Megabooks @amyg @Chelsea.poole I'll always have a soft spot for THE OSU because it was the first veterinary school I was admitted to. (They do rolling admissions.) But I dated a guy, who went to Michigan, so I had a lot of GO BLUE at one point in my life. I'll just say my dog is no longer in that fight lol! I hope you like it more than I did. It has a good rating on the storygraph, so it's probably an #unpopularopinion! 2mo

Suet624 That's a bummer - I saw Chris Whitaker at the National Book Festival and he talked about how it was the best book he'd read in a long time. So of course I bought it. Who knows when I'll get to it... 2mo

JHSiess I have never heard the phrase “boomer lit fic“ until now. Frankly, I have only a vague idea what that is, but I'm sure it's insulting to a whole generation. As a baby boomer, and daughter of the Greatest Generation, I found this book absorbing, moving, relatable, and full of themes to be discussed and considered. I love historical fiction, particularly World War II-era. There is much to be learned from people like my parents who served & survived. (edited) 4w

JHSiess @Suet624 I attended a Zoom with Chris where he said the same thing. And a Zoom with the author, Patrick Ryan, who is thoughtful, eloquent, and delightful. Ignore the snotty comment about “boomer lit fic,“ read the book, and decide for yourself. I loved it & enthusiastically recommend it. Younger readers especially can learn much about the world & life by reading it.⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐⭐ (edited) 4w

Megabooks @JHSiess what I meant by “boomer lit fic” had to do with the narrative arcs of the characters of baby boomer generation. There weren‘t any new insights that this particular author brought versus others I‘ve read. I understand reading things that reflect on your own generation and experiences is really nice and probably a richer experience than I get reading this. When I find an author born in my microgeneration ⬇️ 4w

Megabooks (1978-1982), I tend to like it more or read it with more nuance than a writer about boomers. When I read the Greatest Generation characters in this book, I felt I had some surprises, the characters and plot in the Boomer generation I could‘ve told you exactly where he was going with them. And that made it less enjoyable for me. (And that‘s me having read over 2000 books in the last 6 years.) @JHSiess (edited) 4w

Megabooks @JHSiess probably my favorite multigenerational book with baby boomers is this one that employs a lot more creative storytelling.

The Nix

4w

Suet624 @JHSiess I‘ll definitely read it and I agree with @Megabooks about The Nix. 4w

BarbaraBB @JHSiess I think ‘boomer lit fic‘ is a description of what to expect. Like ‘millennial angst‘ novels. It‘s not meant to be offending! (edited) 4w

70 likes15 comments

The Academy: A Novel | Elin Hilderbrand, Shelby Cunningham

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Another of my #botm picks this month. Totally fun and quick for over 400 pages. Loved these boarding school kids inspired by Elin‘s daughter‘s years there. The adults were kind of a mess, too, which made it fun. And it looks like there will be another installment. Count me in!!

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Discontent: A Novel | Beatriz Serrano

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Halle Butler but make it Spanish (Catalonian?) in Madrid. Lots of millennial workplace ennui. Slow in the beginning but sticks the landing big time!

I like that #botm is experimenting with translated lit.

Took a break because my relationship ended and then I have surgery next week (of course). 🤦🏻‍♀️ I‘ll be in and out, but hopefully more in this fall!

Deblovestoread Wishing you a successful surgery and a easy recovery ❤️‍🩹 2mo

Megabooks @Deblovestoread thank you!! 2mo

TheBookHippie Wishing you all the best! 2mo

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Megabooks @TheBookHippie thank you!! 2mo

TheBookHippie My daughter was interest in this book I think I‘ll get it for her. 🙃 2mo

Ruthiella You had me at Halle Butler! Stacking! 👍Wishing you a speedy recovery from surgery. ❤️ 2mo

BarbaraBB I am so sorry for you. I hope that the surgery will go smoothly and that you‘ll be in this fall 🤍🤍 2mo

kspenmoll Good luck with your surgery. I hope your recovery is easy. .💗 2mo

Lesliereadsalot Thinking of you and hoping all goes well. 🩷 2mo

AmyG Oh, I‘m sorry. May surgery be easy and go exactly as planned. 2mo

sarahbarnes ♥️♥️♥️ 2mo

monalyisha Sending healing vibes — for both situations. 💓 2mo

Lindy Best wishes 🌻🌻🌻 2mo

LeahBergen Sending my best wishes to you! 😘 2mo

Jas16 That is a lot to have on your plate at one time! Sending love and wishes for a successful surgery. ❤️ 2mo

Chelsea.Poole Glad to see you here. Hope all goes smoothly. 2mo

CarolynM Sending love, Meg💕 2mo

Jeg ❤️❤️❤️ 2mo

Megabooks @ruthiella thanks for the get well wishes! Halle is such a fun author, and I hope you enjoy this. @thebookhippie I hope your daughter likes it, too! 2mo

Megabooks @barbarabb @kspenmoll @lesliereadsalot @amyg @sarahbarnes @monalyisha @lindy @leahbergen @jas16 @Chelsea.poole @carolynM @jeg Thank you all for the well wishes!! My surgery is a week from today, so my number one goal is to stay healthy. I'm wearing a mask everywhere and only visiting dad in the nursing home in the evening because there are fewer people and most residents are in their rooms. I hope all goes well!!! 💜 💜 💜 💜 2mo

TheBookHippie @Megabooks oh I hope it goes well!!! I‘ll be thinking of you. ♥️ 2mo

Suet624 Oh, surgery is never fun. Hopefully all goes smoothly and you recover quickly. We'll miss hearing from you!! 2mo

Reggie Meg, I hope everything goes well for you. Sending you all the good and healthy vibes. I will miss your posts. 2mo

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Fun for the Whole Family: A Novel | Jennifer E. Smith

Hoping for a winner with this book over the holiday weekend. 🤞🏻 Guard dog on overdrive, too, so I know I‘ll be safe!

BarbaraBB Oh Molly 🥰 2mo

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Maggie; or, A Man and a Woman Walk Into a Bar | Katie Yee

so-so

Another book that really underwhelmed me. I swear I still read books I like!! This is written in a similar vein as Jenny Offill or Rachel Cusk. The narrator explores the one-two punch of the end of her marriage and a breast cancer diagnosis. In a book where the MC experiences such terrible things, I would expect to feel sympathy, but she reads so detached from her own feelings and situation, I felt nothing. That was disappointing.

Sparklemn Cool title at least! 2mo

Megabooks @Sparklemn yes! Maggie is the name of the woman her husband leaves her for, so she decides to name her breast cancer lump Maggie, too. 😳 2mo

Sparklemn I shouldn‘t laugh…but I can‘t help it. 🙂 2mo

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Fetishized: A Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty | Kaila Yu

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I am a fan of essay collections that are part memoir and part cultural criticism, and this is a v good one.

Yu is a former pin up model and early MySpace influencer, and she discusses that in relation to various Asian stereotypes like the (fake) “geisha”, dragon lady, submissive virgin, etc. She brings in books, TV, and movies as well as other Asian feminists‘ thoughts. She also discusses the effect of objectification by older white men. TW ⬇️

Chelsea.Poole

Megabooks Trigger warning for graphic discussion of rape and murder. 2mo

Chelsea.Poole Thanks for the tag! Sooo missed your reviews 🤍 2mo

oddandbookish I just started this one! 3w

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A Marriage at Sea: A True Story of Love, Obsession, and Shipwreck | Sophie Elmhirst

so-so

For me, this super buzzy (award nominations, President Obama‘s summer reading list) nonfiction was fine. The narration was fine. The story was fine. I just wasn‘t wowed by it nor was it bad. You would think a story of a couple caught at sea would be more exciting, but I found it blah. The sections on the rest of their lives were dull. Idk. I don‘t get the hype. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Suet624 Sometimes the buzz does it in. Puts too much weight on it. 2mo

JamieArc I liked the part at sea enough, but the after really made it fall flat for me. I was almost mad at the author for including it 😂 2mo

Megabooks @Suet624 that and it‘s my favorite publisher. Expected a bit more 💯💯 2mo

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Megabooks @JamieArc the sea part was better for sure, but the narrator took away from it rather than added. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 2mo

Susanita I heard an interview with the author, which was fine but didn‘t inspire me to run out and get it… 2mo

Megabooks @Susanita Yeah. I just don't get why so many people are crazy about it. 2mo

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Make Me Famous: A Novel | Maud Ventura

pan

This didn‘t work for me like at all… I am not one to try to figure out twists but hers are so obvious, it‘s not fun from that perspective. Plus, purposeful cruelty is the worst trait a person can have for me, and there was over 50 pages of outright cruelty and emotional manipulation that made it a very difficult and unsatisfying read for me. Some books just don‘t work for some readers. 🤷🏻‍♀️

vlwelser I keep waiting for it to become interesting.... 2mo

BarbaraBB I was super underwhelmed too! 2mo

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King of Kings: The Iranian Revolution: A Story of Hubris, Delusion and Catastrophic Miscalculation | Scott Anderson

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Okay y‘all, hear me out - at nearly 18 hours this audiobook is an investment, but for me, it paid dividends. Anderson weaves together the story of the fall of the Shaw, the obliviousness the American government, and the rise of Khomeini. Like I can‘t believe the Americans did not translate a single one of Khomeini‘s sermons. Almost no one in the *embassy* spoke Farsi or talked to any everyday people. I mean ffs y‘all!!

BarbaraBB Amen 🙏 2mo

AmyG 😡 2mo

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The Satisfaction Cafe: 'Insightful, necessary and beautiful' Ann Patchett | Kathy Wang

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I chose to go on a date with the guy I‘m building a relationship with rather than see Kathy at Parnassus, and I don‘t regret the decision, but this book was fantastic!! The characters are exquisitely drawn. They felt incredibly lifelike. I would‘ve liked to ask Wang about creating them. Fell just short of perfect. 4.75⭐️ Read it!!

BkClubCare Aw! 2mo

Ruthiella Maybe next time you and your beau can attend together. Win-win. ❤️ 2mo

AmyG I just saw the Parnassus post on IG and was wondering if anyone had read this so thanks! 2mo

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Megabooks @AmyG yes, the event was back In early July, so I‘m surprised they held the video until yesterday. Since Ann brought in her hardcover copy, they may have had to secure a source for the book to be in store before they released it. 2mo

Megabooks @Ruthiella maybe! Our first date was partially at a BN in Indiana between our locations. We picked up some books each other liked. I bought Slow Horses and he picked up Erasure by Everett. Neither of us have read them yet. He doesn‘t read as often as I do. He‘s been working on the Muderbot series lately.

Slow Horses

2mo

BarbaraBB You can‘t imagine how happy I am with reading a review by you (no pressure 🤣🤣). I am stacking of course! Interested why it wasn‘t a 5 ⭐️ as you are super enthusiastic about it! 2mo

Centique So lovely to read your review Meg. Best wishes with the relationship and hope your health is in a better place too 💕 2mo

Chelsea.Poole Feeling just like @BarbaraBB 😊 I actually have this book so I‘m delighted to see it gets your stamp of approval! 2mo

Reggie Awwwwww a BN date!!!! 🖤🖤🖤 2mo

Megabooks @BarbaraBB Some of the choices she made near the end plot-wise I didn't love, so it took away that extra-special feeling I need to bump it up to a 5. Really great book though. I hope more Littens read it. @Chelsea.Poole I hope you enjoy it!! (edited) 2mo

Megabooks @Centique Thank you! My health is in and out of being okay, but generally a bit better overall, which is good. Thanks for asking! 💜 2mo

Megabooks @Reggie I was back in that town last Friday, and I stopped by for the 50% off sale and took a picture in front and texted him, and he replied “Our bookstore!“ which I thought was really cute! 2mo

BarbaraBB That is so cute 🥰 2mo

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Rehab: An American Scandal | Shoshana Walter

pick

This was a fantastic audiobook. Very well reported. Walter looks at the extremely profitable world of rehab in the US. She examines lax regulations across the country and how they lead to harm. She wrote about a doctor that was an early and prolific prescriber of the MAT (medication assisted treatment) tool Suboxone and the trouble BIPOC people have accessing resources compare to white people.

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Make Me Famous: A Novel | Maud Ventura

I had a really good time at the BN 50% off sale today!

TheBookHippie Ooooo 3mo

Hooked_on_books I‘ve been steadily filling my basket online with sale books. We‘ll see where I eventually land! 3mo

vlwelser I just put this book on hold.... I loved her other one. 3mo

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Megabooks @vlwelser Me too, and my library doesn't get them in! 3mo

Megabooks @Hooked_on_books I just brought a screenshot of my basket in the store! I hardly ever get to go in person to these sales because my nearest BN is a hour away, but I was in town anyway for an appointment. Insignificant Others was an impulse buy! 3mo

BarbaraBB Nice haul Meg 💕 2mo

Hooked_on_books That‘s great that you were able to browse in person! That‘s the best way. 2mo

vlwelser I was surprised my library had the untranslated version but they had the other one. I'm spoiled. The main Boston library is across the street/square from where I work. Best make use of it, right? And read all of the French books so they get more. 2mo

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What Hunger | Catherine Dang

BOTM was a bust for me, so I felt free to fill my #aardvark box! What did everyone else get?

What Hunger and Moderation were already on my radar, but The Hounding sounded really interesting, too!

FYI, if you missed it on Insta, looks like the new Chuck Tingle, Lucky Day, will be a pick for September! 🎉🎉🎉

AardvarkBookClub

BarbaraBB All covers look amazing! 3mo

DGRachel I haven‘t heard of any of them and I am not sold on any of the descriptions. I‘m leaning towards skipping but I may go with either Too Old for This or Well, Actually. Maybe The Hounding or Moderation. (None of them! All of them! Flip a coin. 🤣🤣) 3mo

Megabooks @DGRachel Some months are like that! I usually have to get one book from SOMEWHERE, but that's just me! So if I've skipped BOTM already, I definitely have to get an Aardvark - but I've only skipped one month of Aardvark in almost three years, so I'm usually happy with at least one of their choices! 3mo

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Megabooks @BarbaraBB I especially love the What Hunger cover, but they're all good. American covers haven't looked quite as crappy this year, which is good. 3mo

BarbaraBB Yes they are definitely more varied than the years before. Better! 3mo

Jess Your box looks great! The Hounding has been on my list for awhile so I was so excited to see it as a choice. Added. Also treating myself to an add on since I skipped BOTM this month and went with

Once and Future Me

3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I have been excitedly waiting The Hounding, so I am grabbing that and putting a few others on my library hold list! 3mo

Megabooks @ChaoticMissAdventures yes! That's why I did with Seduction Theory from BOTM, and Party of Liars from last month. Libraries are great options. 3mo

Megabooks @Jess Some of the medical things in Once and Future Me are trigger-y for me, so I skipped that. But even with those issues, it still sounded good. I knew I'd be too afraid to crack it open, though. Enjoy! 3mo

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Megabooks @Addison_Reads @AmyG @amiable @BarbaraJean @Bkclubcare @BooksandCoffee4me @Bookbuyingaddict @booknaround @BookwormAHN @Bookwormjillk @Butterfinger @Cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 3mo

Woodworking | Emily St James

This was the tightest vote in a while - certainly tighter than my month last year (James/All Fours 😂) - but Woodworking won 25-18. In the end, I'm really pleased we had a month with great discussions about two books a lot of us enjoyed! Thank you all so much for participating and making this a fun month to lead! #CampLitsy25 @barbarabb @squirrelbrain

Megabooks @catgusmax @cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @Cseydel @Cuilin @Dabbe @Daisey @Debinhawaii @Deblovestoread @DGRachel @ErikasMindfulshelf 3mo

Megabooks @flaneurette @fredthemoose @Gatheringbooks @gissy @Graciouswarriorprincess @Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ 3mo

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Megabooks @JamieArc @Jas16 @Jenniferw88 @JenP @Jenreadsalot @Jess @Jhod @JoyBlue @JulesG @julieclair @KarenUK 3mo

Megabooks @karisa @Kitta @Kristy-K @Kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lesliereadsalot @maggie4483 @maich @Mcctrish @MeganAnn @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @Monalyisha @Oryx 3mo

Megabooks @peaknit @peanutnine @Prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @Read4Life @RaeLovesToRead @reggie @rockpools @Roary47 @Ruthiella @Sace @Sapphire @Sarahbarnes @Soubhiville 3mo

Megabooks @skygoddess1 @Suet624 @Susanita @texreader @TheBookHippie @Thekidupstairs @Triplem80 @TrishB @Vonnie862 @Well-ReadNeck @willaful @youneverarrived @zuhkeeyah 3mo

mcctrish Both were winners imo ( last year not so much 😆😆) 3mo

Ruthiella For me Woodworking was the clear favorite but it is awesome to see the enthusiasm for both! The reader is the real winner! 😅 3mo

Suet624 Thank you!! 3mo

Deblovestoread Yay for Woodworking but I enjoyed Death of the Author too. 3mo

Bookwormjillk Great reading month. Thank you! 3mo

BkClubCare I thought it would be even closer! 👏 3mo

Lesliereadsalot Thanks for hosting! You‘re a rock star.🌟 3mo

BarbaraBB Thank you Meg for a fantastic month and a great outcome! 3mo

squirrelbrain Hooray - a great winner! 🏆 3mo

TrishB Both worthy winners and great reads 👍🏻 3mo

fredthemoose I‘ve been mostly reading and following the discussions and haven‘t been commenting as actively (mostly because so many people have already made the points I would have better than I was going to), but wanted to say thank you @Megabooks @squirrelbrain and @BarbaraBB for another great event herring me to broaden my reading horizons! 3mo

GatheringBooks Awesome! Thank you soo very much for hosting. 🥰 3mo

BarbaraBB @fredthemoose We‘re happy you‘re there and enjoying the discussion 💕 3mo

squirrelbrain You‘re welcome! @fredthemoose 3mo

TheBookDream How do I join Camp Litsy for August? 3mo

Megabooks @TheBookDream hey @BarbaraBB can you add this new camper to our tag list? Thanks! I hope you enjoy Camp! 3mo

BarbaraBB @Megabooks @TheBookDream I will add you! 3mo

britt_brooke Loved this one! 3mo

Sharronix I'm Sharon, a digital book marketer helping authors grow their audience, build visibility, and skyrocket book sales through smart, strategic promotion. Want to see how quickly I can fill your sales pipeline for your book? ask me how 3mo

89 likes26 comments

Let's Go Camping! | Jan Mader

It is that time of the month! #CampLitsy25 readers please vote for your favorite book from July! It seems like many of us liked both books, so I'm curious to see which will come out on top. 🤔 Vote simply by putting the name of the book in your comment.

I hope all of you will be back for August! I think we may need to install AC first, though! (The corn sweat is killing us around here.)

@barbarabb @squirrelbrain

BarbaraBB It‘s a tough choice this month but my vote goes to

Megabooks @Addison_Reads @AmyG @amiable @BarbaraJean @Bkclubcare @BooksandCoffee4me @Bookbuyingaddict @booknaround @BookwormAHN @Bookwormjillk @Butterfinger @Cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 3mo

3mo

BarbaraBB Meg shall I tag our campers? 3mo

Megabooks @BarbaraBB Whoops! I'll tag them. I'm just...brain fogging it today! It's kind of a...you mean they can't read my heat-intolerant mind just by posting? (edited) 3mo

See All 54 Comments

BarbaraBB @Megabooks 💝 3mo

Megabooks @catgusmax @cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @Cseydel @Cuilin @Dabbe @Daisey @Debinhawaii @Deblovestoread @DGRachel @ErikasMindfulshelf 3mo

Megabooks @flaneurette @fredthemoose @Gatheringbooks @gissy @Graciouswarriorprincess @Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ 3mo

Megabooks @JamieArc @Jas16 @Jenniferw88 @JenP @Jenreadsalot @Jess @Jhod @JoyBlue @JulesG @julieclair @KarenUK 3mo

AmyG Woodworking 3mo

Megabooks @karisa @Kitta @Kristy-K @Kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lesliereadsalot @maggie4483 @maich @Mcctrish @MeganAnn @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @Monalyisha @Oryx 3mo

Megabooks @peaknit @peanutnine @Prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @Read4Life @RaeLovesToRead @reggie @rockpools @Roary47 @Ruthiella @Sace @Sapphire @Sarahbarnes @Soubhiville 3mo

Kitta My vote is for

3mo

Megabooks @skygoddess1 @Suet624 @Susanita @texreader @TheBookHippie @Thekidupstairs @Triplem80 @TrishB @Vonnie862 @Well-ReadNeck @willaful @youneverarrived @zuhkeeyah 3mo

Megabooks @BarbaraBB My heat-intolerant body would like to take a vacation to the location of Wild Dark Shore for a few days. Even with Dom's strange behavior, it would still be preferable. LOL! 3mo

mcctrish My vote

3mo

DGRachel Definitely Woodworking for me.

3mo

Deblovestoread

3mo

Ruthiella No question about it. Books like this are the reason I love reading.

3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures Oh goodness this is hard! I loved them both but I think for creativity and writing skills I have to go with

3mo

Bookwormjillk I‘m with the crowd on this one.

3mo

TrishB Death of the Author for me. Hard choice this one. 3mo

ErikasMindfulShelf Death of the Author 3mo

BookwormAHN Death of the Author 3mo

rockpools Eek! I‘ve not finished, and they‘re both really good. I like Woodworking more, but I admire the scale and writing and sheer everything ness of DotA, so I think I‘m going

3mo

Susanita I will pass on voting this month since I‘ve only read one of the books so far. 3mo

jenniferw88 As I'm already recommending this one, I want a physical copy & and am planning on re-reading, it has to be

3mo

TheKidUpstairs I like both selections this month, it's a clear winner for me. Okorafor crafted something extra special

3mo

CBee How do I choose? I loved them both so much! I‘m going to go with Woodworking, mainly because it stuck with me the most, and taught me the most. 3mo

vonnie862 It was a great month of reads, but I really enjoyed Death of the Author the most. 3mo

squirrelbrain Very difficult to choose, but DotA was a bit outside my usual fare, so I‘m going to go with

3mo

Chelsea.Poole A tough one for sure! I‘m going with

3mo

Meshell1313 Ooh I loved them both! I‘ll vote for

3mo

kspenmoll

(edited) 3mo

ImperfectCJ Both good books, but this one's the clear winner for me.

3mo

Jas16 Great month but

3mo

Skygoddess1

3mo

JenReadsAlot Both were great books! Going with

3mo

Oryx Both awesome, but it's Woodworking for me.

3mo

Christine Thank you for leading us in such great discussions! I loved the Okorafor but LOVED

3mo

Lesliereadsalot Both were so good! Woodworking by a nose, it just got better and better. 3mo

Hooked_on_books This one‘s easy for me, as I DNF‘d DotA at 12% and Woodworking is now on my permanent shelf, something I rarely do!

3mo

GatheringBooks Hello! I vote for

3mo

Texreader Death of the Author!! How I loved that book! 3mo

Jess I have to go with Death of the Author. I was really surprised how much I liked it because I typically steer clear of books with robots. 3mo

JamieArc I keep going back and forth but I think I will go with Death of the Author because I keep thinking about it and recommending it. 3mo

Suet624 Oh boy. Such a tough choice. Kind of surprisingly (to myself) I‘m going with

3mo

DebinHawaii This is such a tough choice! I‘d be happy with either book winning but I think I have to go with Woodworking by a hair because it is a book that‘s going to stay with me a long time.

3mo

BarbaraJean Woodworking! Both were excellent, but Woodworking was the more enjoyable read for me. 3mo

BkClubCare 🗳️

(edited) 3mo

Maggie4483 This is such a hard decision. I‘m so grateful to #CampLitsy because I would never have read either of these on my own, and I feel like they both expanded my worldview. But I‘m going with Dea….no, Woodw…no option for a tie? No? Okay…😬😬😬:

Death of the Author (Deluxe Limited Edition)

3mo

Butterfinger Death of the Author 3mo

Roary47 I didn‘t get to read Death of an author so I guess I‘m voting Woodworking. 3mo

Karisa I loved them both so much! Toughest choice ever. They are both so different and beautiful but it‘s DotA for me.

3mo

Read4life I‘m going with

3mo

61 likes54 comments

Megabooks @Addison_Reads @AmyG @amiable @BarbaraJean @Bkclubcare @BooksandCoffee4me @Bookbuyingaddict @booknaround @BookwormAHN @Bookwormjillk @Butterfinger @Cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 3mo

Woodworking | Emily St James

****THIS DISCUSSION WILL CONTAIN MAJOR SPOILERS**** Please be mindful of this if you choose to read it.

Brooke was certainly one of the most surprising and confounding characters in this book! I'm dying to know what y'all think! #CampLitsy25

@barbarabb @squirrelbrain

Megabooks @catgusmax @cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @Cseydel @Cuilin @Dabbe @Daisey @Debinhawaii @Deblovestoread @DGRachel @ErikasMindfulshelf 3mo

Megabooks @flaneurette @fredthemoose @Gatheringbooks @gissy @Graciouswarriorprincess @Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ 3mo

See All 61 Comments

Megabooks @JamieArc @Jas16 @Jenniferw88 @JenP @Jenreadsalot @Jess @Jhod @JoyBlue @JulesG @julieclair @KarenUK 3mo

Megabooks
@karisa @Kitta @Kristy-K @Kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lesliereadsalot @maggie4483 @maich @Mcctrish @MeganAnn @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @Monalyisha @Oryx 3mo

Megabooks @peaknit @peanutnine @Prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @Read4Life @RaeLovesToRead @reggie @rockpools @Roary47 @Ruthiella @Sace @Sapphire @Sarahbarnes @Soubhiville 3mo

Megabooks @skygoddess1 @Suet624 @Susanita @texreader @TheBookHippie @Thekidupstairs @Triplem80 @TrishB @Vonnie862 @Well-ReadNeck @willaful @youneverarrived @zuhkeeyah 3mo

AmyG I was very surprised by Brooke‘s backroung. Didn‘t see THAT coming. I think it took alot for her to reveal herself. She was hiding for so long. To tell her children had to have been beyond hard. It absolutely affected Abigal and Caleb. I believe she felt that she could finally do some good…in her acceptance of Abigail and Caleb. All of the trans characters had their own unique struggles. (edited) 3mo

Chelsea.Poole Same, @AmyG —I did a double take! Looking back, there were a few subtle hints but certainly didn‘t see it coming. I love when an author is able to get me like that! I really felt for Brooke, seems like she‘s had a full circle moment. She didn‘t handle things well but often humans do get it wrong. Showed authenticity. She must have been scared…Abigail and Caleb‘s relationship had the power to completely upend her carefully crafted life. 3mo

Hooked_on_books I wasn‘t surprised because I had noticed some hints. I was glad that she embraced Abigail despite her own desire to pass; I know some people in that position would be even harder on someone who is out as an attempt to protect themselves. I‘m so glad she told her kids and could at least live openly with her family. 3mo

BarbaraBB Like @AmyG and @Chelsea.Poole it took me by surprise. It made so much sense though - in hindsight. Brooke seeming uncomfortable with Caleb dating Abigail, turned out not to be because she disapproves of trans people — rather, because she sees herself in Abigail. That familiarity may feel threatening. Abigail is out, unapologetic, and visible — everything Brooke isn‘t. Her initial awkwardness isn‘t rejection, but internal conflict. I loved that (edited) 3mo

willaful I had guessed it, from her history and reactions to Abigail. It reminded me of a biography I read of a trans woman who had no interest in any kind of activism and was disdainful of trans people who didn't pass. Brooke is a much more sympathetic portrait. She's done a lot of harm through her silence and conformity, but she's also greatly harmed herself.

Trauma Cleaner: One Woman's Extraordinary Life in the Business of Death, Decay, and Disaster

3mo

Ruthiella I was surprised but I really liked the layer of experience her trajectory provided as well as her (mis)handling of Caleb and Alison. I would also say, in her defense, that when she transitioned, it was a different ere and more common for trans folk to not disclose. Whereas Alison‘s generation‘s approach is much more open. 3mo

Bookwormjillk I was both surprised and not surprised at the same time. You could tell Brooke wasn‘t the conservative housewife she appeared to be. Of all the characters I worry the most about her. It seemed like she was trying to shove her past back into a box, but I don‘t think that will be sustainable for her. 3mo

CarolynM I was surprised, and at first the unlikelihood of it rankled a bit but I got over it because it brought in a different aspect of the trans experience which enriched the message of the story. 3mo

Susanita @Bookwormjillk I worry about Brooke too. She made a decision to hide her true self and then had to live with it for so many years. It‘s not all magically okay because she‘s finally sharing her story. But I think it wasn‘t sustainable anymore to keep it hidden either. 3mo

Lesliereadsalot I was totally shocked by Brooke‘s story, did not have a clue. And it read so honestly and was so interesting, that it just really upended this book, for me. From that point on, I loved this book. When she saw how much Caleb loved Abigail, I felt like she could finally see how deserving of love a trans person could be. She needed to see that, not only for herself, but for Caleb and Abigail too. 3mo

BarbaraBB @willaful I remember that book vividly! So good too. 3mo

BarbaraBB @CarolynM I felt the same, the unlikelihood annoyed me a bit, but I got over it soon because of what it added to the story. 3mo

Meshell1313 I was also shocked by this reveal! But I loved how the book showed a variety of experiences and perspectives- those that feel like they have to keep the secret and those who are more open. Both are realities. It really puts everything into perspective. 3mo

TrishB I think it added good depth. And who knows how common it is 🤷‍♀️ I didn‘t guess this ahead of the reveal. 3mo

Karisa I was surprised by Brooke. It seemed like Brooke and Victor were just being way too accepting of Abigail, so when that was revealed it all made more sense. Brooke‘s “woodworking” reminded me of one of the people in the hbo documentary Enigma. She was able to build a whole life without others knowing her past and worked as a teacher for many years 3mo

mcctrish At first I was a bit like @CarolynM that the author was adding another trans person to the plot but then I thought Brooke was the more realistic version of trans in small town America, living with half of themselves buried to pass, the mirror version of Erica, slowly dying because of the weight of what has to stay covered. What a gift Abigail is to them 3mo

CBee Slightly surprised but it ended up making so much sense for the story. I think “woodworking” is very common (sadly) and there need to be more stories about that. This book taught me so much. 3mo

squirrelbrain Like @CarolynM @mcctrish I rolled my eyes at first as I thought it was very ‘unlikely‘ but, like @TrishB said, who knows how common it is. Like both of you though, I grew to understand why the author had included Brooke‘s experience as it added another layer to an already multi-layered story. (edited) 3mo

squirrelbrain I agree @CBee - I learnt so much from this book. 3mo

squirrelbrain @Karisa - I was worried by Brooke‘s acceptance of Abigail, I felt there was something sinister going on and I‘m glad it turned out not to be so. 3mo

Megabooks @Karisa I love HBO documentaries, so I'll have to look that up!

I liked how St. James revealed a backstory for Brooke that made her woodworking make sense. I really felt Brooke's fear of her birth family, of not being able to fit in, of losing her kids, and her need to depend on Victor for her life and lifestyle. Still, I can't help but think she's a sellout who actively harms others, and that's not really excusable. (edited) 3mo

Megabooks I like that St. James gave her a tinge of regret for Brooke not paying for the surgery on her own and being independent and not beholden to Victor and his beliefs. I think Brooke lets fear rule her life, and that is probably a very unhappy position to live in constantly! 3mo

CBee @Megabooks I‘d almost like to see a continuation where Brooke goes even further and comes out to everyone. It was a good start when she distanced herself from Isaiah and called him out on his shitty politics. 3mo

vonnie862 I was surprised at Brooke's revelation. I did not see that coming. It made sense why Caleb's parents easily accepted Abigail. 3mo

Jas16 Like others, I was surprised and initially annoyed by the revelation but grew to appreciate the added depth her story added. I never warmed up to her as a character though and couldn‘t let go of my initial distrust. 3mo

Deblovestoread Like others I was put off at first and thought it unlikely. And like @squirrelbrain I thought she was going to be the biggest back stabber. I was glad to be wrong about it all and loved it. 3mo

Roary47 I was with @CarolynM in being surprised, and how unlikely it was. However, I liked seeing how life can be for someone who finds their true selves and doesn‘t get the support like Abbigail does. I had a student that provided me their true name, and the grandma refused us to use it. By law and parental rights we were forced to call them by their improper name (while I did this in formal communication, I didn‘t to the student verbally 🤫). 🤐 3mo

Roary47 ⬆️While Abbigail didn‘t get the support from her family. She had a lot of other support and was brave. Like many of you I like how the author showed depth. It made the “woodworking” make sense for me too. 3mo

JamieArc @squirrelbrain I was worried there was something sinister going on too, like it was all going to culminate in some really public horrifying shaming of Abigail. 3mo

JamieArc Like many others here, I was completely surprised, and then annoyed - like “that‘s a convenient plot twist.” But also like others, I really liked that we got another trans perspective to go from totally out (Abigail) to transitioning (forgetting the teacher‘s name!) to totally woodworking (Brooke). It added another level of complexity but heart as well ❤️ 3mo

Butterfinger @Roary47 NC has the same crazy law. Good point @Ruthiella I was surprised. I did think of Brooke and her husband as far right extremists. I wasn't mad reading the books, but analyzing Brooke and reading comments, if Brooke had not been woodworking, Abigail would felt more comfortable at their house. I still think Brooke was wrong in keeping the essay a secret. She knew the power of names. I understood completely why this upset B. 3mo

Butterfinger Her story was used to get ahead. If he hadn't wanted her to read it, he shouldn't have bragged about it. The family did not respect her enough to ask for permission. 3mo

fredthemoose Like others, I was initially annoyed by the Brook reveal because it seemed unrealistically convenient. Hearing the author say that she was based on someone from a real trans support group smoothed that out a little for me. 3mo

Christine Yay, so happy for this question! I‘m with the throng of folks at first surprised by Brooke‘s identity and finding it convenient but then quickly growing to love it! And yes, mostly took away from it that this is likely MUCH more common than many of us realize. @TrishB @CBee @squirrelbrain 3mo

Megabooks @Butterfinger I'm glad you brought this up because I almost asked a question about the essay. It was totally right of Abigail to feel betrayed by Caleb but especially by Brooke. Sometimes she helped A but when it came down to her kid getting ahead or Abigail's feelings and needs as another trans person, she gladly encouraged Caleb to throw Abigail under the bus. Disappointing! 3mo

Karisa @squirrelbrain Me too! Especially with her involvement in the mean guy‘s campaign! I thought it was going to be a gotcha. So glad it was not! 3mo

Karisa @Megabooks It‘s so good! The women highlighted all started out as performers/modeis in France/UK (they are gorgeous). Then life took them in different ways. Absolutely compelling! (edited) 3mo

jenniferw88 @JamieArc I loved the different perspectives (and the portrayal of different relationships within the community), as well! As an aspiring writer who wants to make LGBTQ a major theme, they really helped me understand trans people more, and as I need to have at least one trans character in the book, I'll definitely be re-reading this one! 3mo

jenniferw88 @Megabooks, but something had to go wrong at some point for Abigail. Otherwise, where is the drama? I'm just glad that it was betrayal of trust by Caleb & not anything to do with her parents - that would have been much worse, imo. Yes, it's bad, but hopefully Abigail can get over it, whereas if the issue had been with the parents, I fear Abigail would be scarred forever - she's craving support from her real parents (indicated by the 📞 calls). 3mo

jenniferw88 ⬆️ and yes, I know there's the attempted abduction of Abigail, but nothing really comes out from that scene - we don't get to see the consequences to the parents. 3mo

jenniferw88 Does anyone else want to see this turned into a movie/tv show?! 3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I think ultimately the title was about Brooke. No one woodworked the way she did. It had me thinking a lot about Gays for Trump and all of those other minority groups that will cling to a political ideology in hopes that either no one will find out they are the target of the bills, or that being friends with the people making the laws will mean they will slide through okay - as she points out later on “pulling the ladder up after herself“. 3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I was a bit surprised but looking back, like @Chelsea.Poole I think there were enough hints if I had been paying closer attention. I think she is a terrible person, I think that she betrayed Abigail the most (I am forgetting what she did to Erica?) I thought it was a clever way to get a large spectrum of trans people in the book, people who as A says will never pass to those so passing they go politically against the best interest of the community 3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @Hooked_on_books I think I was mostly surprised she came out to her kids. Especially that little girl who seems primed to be bigoted. But I think it probably was such a load off of herself, even if she has convinced herself she passes so well she doesn't need to think about others. 3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @Ruthiella I was thinking a lot about how the older generation was compared to Abigail, and how Brooke passing the way she did, wanting to stay woodworking no matter how that caused her to fit into the community and cause harm, and also Erica, and how scary it is in South Dakota to think about coming out. Abigail doesn't have the lived history of the older women, and how awful people can be. It was much harder for them. 3mo

Zuhkeeyah I did not see Brooke‘s background coming. It made sense though why she was kind to Abigail but rude when Erica wore nail polish. I think she betrayed them both by woodworking so completely that she was unable to speak up. 3mo

CBee @ChaoticMissAdventures or the Jews who voted for Hitler and then fought for Germany in WWII. They did it in the hopes they‘d be spared. (Sorry, I know that‘s heavy) 3mo

JamieArc @jenniferw88 I would be so interested in seeing this as a show! 3mo

GatheringBooks @JamieArc yes to everything you said - in terms of the continuum of woodworking among trans individuals. That being said, the plot twist made the story too fantastical for me - but the fact that it isn‘t all that credible did not diminish the entertainment value. After all, there are times when truth can be stranger than fiction. 3mo

Suet624 @CarolynM I was reading these comments this morning wondering if anyone had the same reaction as I did. You‘re the first to say it. The unlikelihood rankled a bit (you‘re kidding me!). But I got over it. 3mo

Kitta I was thinking based on the title that there wasn‘t actually a lot of woodworking happening in the novel and was pleasantly surprised to have Brooke as an example of it. I thought the novel would be much more focused on someone like Brooke tbh! Im so glad her conservative nature was just a shield, I was so worried she would be backstabbing and awful and it was nice to have more depth to her. 3mo

Maggie4483 I think Brooke‘s storyline bridged the gap between Abigail and Erica. I loved the way that the chapters told from Abigail‘s POV were in 1st person, b/c she was the one who was the most authentically herself. Erica, who is not living as her true self, is spoken about in 3rd person (until she comes out to her boss and her POV switches…chills!). And Brooke‘s chapters are in 2nd person, b/c she‘s in her true body, but not openly. It was brilliant!!! 3mo

Megabooks @Maggie4483 I initially had in my pool of questions to refine with Helen and Barbara a question about her use of voices in the book. I thought it was brilliantly done!! 3mo

TheBookDream @Maggie4483 well put. I found the switching between perspectives confusing for a while, but it really was brilliantly done. Also, I adored the revelation for Brooke. I didn‘t catch it AT ALL and I think it added so much to the story. 3mo

48 likes61 comments

Woodworking | Emily St James

Last week we talked about Abigail as Erica's “trans mom,“ which rightfully made a lot of readers uncomfortable with the teacher/student and adult/teen dynamics already present. Abigail is a kid, and she definitely needed a mom herself. Two women stepped up to fill that void in this book. What do you think of Jennifer and Brooke and mother-figure to Abigail? #CampLitsy25

@barbarabb @squirrelbrain

AmyG I think both women were there when Abigail needed someone to trust and stand up for her in a way her own mother didn‘t. In that respect she was lucky to have them. I have great respect for her sister who did her best to support Abigail. I can only believe that so many have no one to trust, lean on…no one to support them. 😢 3mo

Hooked_on_books I think they are both important, one as a blood family member who accepts Abigail fully and the other who deeply understands Abigail‘s situation. She is fairly isolated but also very fortunate to have these women in her life as mother figures. 3mo

Chelsea.Poole Her sister was fiercely protective of Abigail though I‘m not sure she was in the best position to mother her, as she was pretty young herself. Plus, the sibling relationship suffers when one steps into the parental role. And Abigail certainly didn‘t appreciate the fact that Jennifer failed to discuss adoption with her, and brought it up at family dinner. Not sure who is the best fit, but more support is always a good thing. 3mo

See All 31 Comments

BarbaraBB I agree on what‘s said so far. Jennifer teaches Abigail how to survive, Brooke helps her figure out how to live. Abigail isn‘t asked to choose between them — instead, she pieces together her own sense of family from both of them. 3mo

willaful @BarbaraBB Yes, well put. Abigail's need for her mother was one of the most painful parts of the book to me. She so desperately needs someone to care for her and just about everyone fails her, but I think in the end she learns to be more forgiving of people's mistakes when they're with her when the chips are down. 3mo

Ruthiella I agree that neither woman quite fits but both do offer some modicum of parental figure. I agree with @willaful that Allison really missed her mother and that love and care a parent can provide. Let‘s hope that eventually she is able to reconnect with her mom. Sometimes it just takes time. And it was clear that Alison‘s mother also missed her, but was struggling. (edited) 3mo

Bookwormjillk @BarbaraBB well put. And @willaful good point about Abigail‘s birth mom. Overall I was glad that she did have some sort of mother figures in her life looking out for her and that she could depend on. I liked that they were both flawed but truly were trying to do their best despite the impact “momming” Abigail had on their own lives. 3mo

BarbaraBB @willaful You‘re right, her phonecalls to her birth mom were so painful and sad 😢 (edited) 3mo

CarolynM Yes, @willaful it was painful to see how much Abigail wanted her mother‘s acceptance & how determined her mother was to insist that her own wants were more important. I feel raging fury at parents who try to direct their children‘s lives all the way into adulthood (& sometimes beyond) 🤬 (edited) 3mo

Lesliereadsalot Jennifer loves Abigail the most and has come the farthest alongside her. Of course her birth mom would be ideal, but between her moms views and husband, and Brooke‘s past, and Erica‘s transition, none of them are whole enough to give her what she needs, that unconditional love we all seek. But maybe they can all be parts of a whole, a group hug. 3mo

BarbaraBB @Lesliereadsalot I agree, Jennifer‘s love is so unconditional, that‘s worth a lot I think. 3mo

TrishB @CarolynM same! You don‘t get your dictate your children‘s lives and choices. 3mo

mcctrish I think Abigail had a lot of guilt over Jennifer having to change her life to help Abigail. Abigail worried Jennifer had ‘settled‘ with Ron so she‘d have the financial means. Although I thought Ron was pretty chill and absolutely what Jennifer wanted and chose - there were things alluded to that happened between Jennifer and her parents - I Hope Abigail can take comfort in the fact that her parents were shitty to all not just her. 3mo

squirrelbrain Well said! @BarbaraBB 3mo

Megabooks @willaful It was painful how deeply she needed her birth mother and how deeply her birth mother tried to force her to be someone she is not. @barbarabb - great observation!

I love Jennifer's fierce protectiveness, but I think in her need to placate their parents, she put Abigail in danger. I understand why she felt safer with Brooke in that part of the book. 3mo

CBee Ugh, her mom 😡😥 I think both Jennifer and Brooke provided what she needed in different ways and at different times. The fact that she had so much support was wonderful - I wish it could always be like that for trans kids in real life 😔 3mo

vonnie862 I felt bad for Jennifer on how angry Abigail got with her. She was doing her best to keep Abigail safe. 3mo

Jas16 I loved how fierce Jennifer was in her love for her sister and how far she was willing g to go to keep her safe. She made mistakes but she is still so young and also dealing with the loss of parental relationships. Abigail finds things she needs from both relationships but Brooke also gets things she needs out of their relationship, 3mo

Deblovestoread Her need for her mom was heartbreaking and the mom‘s continued lack of anything nurturing was infuriating. I think when a parent fails us it is almost innate to seek that through other relationships and if we are lucky there are others who care that help fill that void. 3mo

BkClubCare I loved that the humans all felt so real; messy, guilt-ridden, fearful, but also wanting to give love. MOST of the characters, anyway. 3mo

Roary47 I‘m not sure I can add much to the already great thoughts that I was feeling too. I just thought about Lilo and Stitch, where the sister stepped in and it actually hurt their relationship for a while. Abbigail was nearing 18 so all teens are really coming into their own at this time. Many need to find their own way. So while Abbigail didn‘t have her parents support it was great she had the support of others, and the group. Not all have that. 3mo

Butterfinger So many great points. Abigail was able to fit in a created family, but that would never completely fill the birth mom shaped hole. 3mo

Megabooks @vonnie862 I agree that was Jennifer's overall disposition, but it angered me that she pushed so hard for Abigail to have this dinner with their parents. It put Abigail in real danger and springing the custody suit without telling Abigail didn't seem to help the situation. 3mo

willaful @mcctrish Yes, I agree. I think Jennifer was happy with Ron and Abigail was taking too much responsibility on herself. 3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @BarbaraBB this is so beautifully put, Jennifer teaching her how to survive and Brooke how to live, Thought I worry that Brooke will fall right back into that far right politics that hurt others, I think that Abigail was helping Brooke as much as Brooke was helping Abigail. But it was so good for A to see what type of life is possible for her. 3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @mcctrish I agree, I think A felt guilty about what she was putting Jennifer through, even if everything J did showed she was doing it willingly. Ron seems super cool, and seeing things through A's eyes it is hard to know if J settled, but she seems happy to have. I think the big mistake was not talking to A about everything before springing it on her in front of the parents. A had to fight so much for agency over her life, she needed a heads up. 3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I think the only reason A went to Brooke is b/c she felt she was losing agency of her life when J said she was going to adopt her. She needed someone outside of the family, and Brooke had been kind to her, and if I remember right she was the only phone number A had memorized? Desperation throwing them together. 3mo

Zuhkeeyah I agree with all the above comments. Jennifer and Brooke spoke to different parts of Abigail‘s mothering needs. Jennifer is the unconditional, permanent safe harbor who is trying her best to protect Abigail the best way she knows how though a few methods were a little stifling. Brooke is a representation of what she wished her mom could be like. Fully accepting without needing to have all the nuances explained. 3mo

GatheringBooks Great thoughts here. Loved Jennifer‘s role - deapite A being quite a challenging teen to work with on occasion. I don‘t know about you guys but I need a mom like Brooke who hands out a fat check like it‘s nothing. You go, A. 3mo

Kitta @willaful I noticed once Brooke is more in her life she stops calling her mother so much. It‘s like more of her needs were fulfilled than with her sister alone. The phone calls were hard though. It was definitely painful to read. 3mo

Maggie4483 I just loved all the adults rallying around Abigail and giving her the love her parents wouldn‘t. I think that falls into the “it takes a village” idea. Jennifer is a badass, and Brooke is so much more complex than I ever would have imagined. And I know that Erica‘s relationship with Abigail gave a lot of people the ick, but I truly believe A got just as much out of it as E. Could it have been handled differently, yes. But it was worth the risk. 3mo

43 likes31 comments

Woodworking | Emily St James

This book had such fantastic characters, and I'm glad so many of you enjoyed it, too! Tomorrow, I'll make the post to vote for your favorite book of July. I have truly enjoyed leading these discussions for the 4th year, and thanks to all of you who make #CampLitsy25 so wonderful and enlightening!

I'll pass the mic to @barbarabb for August, which starts with Tilt by Emma Pattee next weekend. Hope to see you there! @squirrelbrain

AmyG I believe these two accepted Abigail for who she was. They also fought the good fight. Megan was her first girlfriend. They, hopefully, will be friends forever. And kudos for Helen for fighting for what she believed in when she had no chance to win at all. That is not easy. My husband ran in local politics in a county where he didn‘t stand a chance….and lost. What a thankless thing to do and yet we always need to fight for what we believe in. 3mo

Hooked_on_books I think they‘re both great allies. They‘re both open-minded and willing to listen when Abigail or Erica mess up or are perceived as doing something problematic. I thought they rounded out the cast of characters nicely. It‘s always good to see friendships on the page. 3mo

Chelsea.Poole Helen and Megan were great examples of allies. I agree @Hooked_on_books —it was nice to have them there! @AmyG thanks to you and your husband! Local politics can be incredibly tough! 3mo

See All 54 Comments

BarbaraBB Once again I agree! Megan and Helen serve as great cisgender allies, offering stability, compassion, and consistency. Their allyship isn‘t performative or perfect, and I loved that. It‘s deeply rooted in care and I have high hopes for their future! 3mo

willaful @BarbaraBB Again, I agree. I think Abigail really needed to get to know people whose offered true friendship and allyship, so she could accept frindship and help. 3mo

Ruthiella I particularly loved Megan. How she showed Alison what friendship is and can be. 3mo

Bookwormjillk The characters in this book truly were superb. I particularly loved Megan. I liked that Helen made an assumption about Erica and was able to pivot when she learned what was really going on. I also was glad that she was able to take some of the role of being Erica‘s best friend off Abigail since I still feel like it didn‘t belong there. Just a really great book overall. Anyone could have been the main character and I would have enjoyed the story. 3mo

Bookwormjillk PS waaahhhhh I don‘t want camp to be almost over ***stamps foot*** 3mo

BarbaraBB @Ruthiella Me too, she felt so real! Such a struggling adolescent herself too. 3mo

BarbaraBB @Bookwormjillk Neither do I! We‘ve been reading the best of books and all you clever readers add so much to the experience for me (edited) 3mo

Susanita I liked both of them as friends. They were supportive as much as they could be but also called them out when they were being jerks. I‘m also glad Erica found a friend in Helen so that she could stop relying on Abigail as much when she was clearly going through her own stuff. 3mo

CarolynM They were both really strong secondary characters and added a lot to the story. I can certainly see them as long term friends and life long LGBTQ+ allies. Off topic but I need to mention this - was anyone else appalled when the principal tells Megan “voting is a privilege not a right”? If this is really how voting is perceived in the USA it explains a lot. 3mo

Lesliereadsalot I was so happy to have these characters along for the ride, open and honest and dealing with everything that came their way. Which was a lot! Big thanks to #CampLitsy25 for opening my eyes to such diverse books this summer. 3mo

Meshell1313 @BarbaraBB exactly!!! They, like me the reader, learned a lot! 3mo

mcctrish I love love love how these independent, unique women came together & found friendship and support. It was a bit heartbreaking to see Constance leave but she was pushed and I applaud her for taking the chance after watching Erica, Helen, Megan and Abigail have courage. One true friend can save you and they all found one. Camp is making summer seem like it‘s flying @Bookwormjillk 😱😭 as I inhale my sections and wait, tapping my foot, for Saturday 3mo

squirrelbrain I agree @Hooked_on_books - it‘s always great to read about successful friendships just as much as ‘romantic‘ relationships. 3mo

squirrelbrain @CarolynM. Of course, it served the principal to say that because he was on the ‘right‘ side of politics in his red town so I‘m sure that‘s how many people must perceive the right to vote in the US 3mo

squirrelbrain @Bookwormjillk - #wintercamp anyone?! 3mo

squirrelbrain Yes, I agree @Ruthiella @BarbaraBB - Megan wasn‘t perfect (and neither should she have been) so it was great to see a ‘normal‘ teenage friendship between her and Abigail. 3mo

Megabooks @CarolynM I think there are a lot of people in the US (especially folks who fear looking forward for solutions) that would like to solidify their hold by taking away the rights of others - that includes voting. There was a bill that was going around this winter that would've made it difficult for women who changed to a married name to be able to register to vote. There are also people tossing around “headship voting“ where (con't) 3mo

Megabooks @carolynM a man would have control of the vote of his wife and each of his children (until they turn 18), so a married man with four children would have six votes to my one as a single woman. It's atrocious! 3mo

Megabooks I loved how St. James lays out a map for these women continuing their friendships in college and being adult roommates. Megan standing up in a conservative school environment for all of these other characters especially impressed me. She was quite a fearless teenager in her defense of Abigail, Erica, and Helen. I hope real teens like her never lose their spark. We need them. 3mo

CBee Loved them both. I almost wanted Erica and Helen to end up together! Megan was my fave of the two. She never gave up on Abigail. 3mo

BkClubCare @Bookwormjillk 😁😂🤗 3mo

Deblovestoread Everything felt so authentic to me as the friendships grew. I‘m so glad that Abigail and Erica were able to build friend relationships with Helen and Megan something they both really needed. 3mo

BkClubCare @Megabooks - whoa, I had NOT heard of that headship idea! and yes, voting 🗳️ in the US is confusing and debated for who is worthy. And they (powers that be) prefer apathy and decreased access so they can stay in power. 3mo

BkClubCare @CarolynM - I had to look that up, too. But yes, there are many blocks put up to make it difficult to vote; just making it confusing, bothersome, and “what‘s the point?” - it is infuriating to me. 3mo

BkClubCare I loved all the characters and appreciated that many were messy and good-hearted. The author did an excellent job with all the major and minor characters. Plus the humor! This is one of my favorite books this year. 3mo

Roary47 I think the realness of all the characters in this book were great. They made mistakes like all humans do. Thank you for this discussion. I learned a lot through the book and discussion. 🥰 3mo

Butterfinger I'll be up for #winter camp @squirrelbrain @Bookwormjillk Everyone needs a friend like Megan. She didn't let Abigail get by with stuff, but she was right there when needed. 3mo

Megabooks @BkClubCare Yeah, Vance has talked about it publicly. Just a crazy idea but a huge win for the quiverfuls if they can swing it. Someone like Jim Bob Duggar would have over 20 votes! 😱 3mo

BkClubCare @Megabooks - shaking my head. 3mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I think that we all need a Helen and Megan in our lives, these White Women who are more privileged and who will go hard for you. They are usually really dedicated, even if they can be a bit overwhelming, like with see between Megan and Abigail. I agree with everyone here, the relationships felt very authentic and I really enjoyed all of the characters, even the ones I think were terrible people St James really knows how to put a cast together. 3mo

Christine @squirrelbrain Yes please!! ❄️⛺️ 3mo

Christine @Megabooks 😱 is right re: Jim Bob having all those votes!! (And have you started watching Season 2 of Shiny Happy People?) 3mo

Megabooks @Christine I saw it was available last week, but I haven't watched it yet! 3mo

Zuhkeeyah The friendships were fantastic. I really appreciated Erica and Helen‘s since it took courage and understanding from both sides to get them over the initial misunderstanding. Megan and Abigail‘s friendship helped them both grow out of their comfort zones. Yes, I think Megan initially gravitated towards Abigail because she was trans, but something much more honest was built by the end. I hope all of them remain in contact. 3mo

Bookwormjillk @squirrelbrain I would love a #wintercamp ❤️ 3mo

DGRachel As someone who almost never reads LitFic outside of Camp, I can‘t believe I‘m going to say this, but the books this summer have been 🤯 and I would totally be game for #wintercamp @squirrelbrain 3mo

DGRachel Also, I know I‘m late to commenting, but I just finished this, and I think what I loved most was the characters - not only how real they felt, as complex, individual human beings, but also in relationship to each other as friends, family-figures, lovers, allies, etc. These are all women I would love to have in my life, in all their messy complexities. 3mo

Christine @Megabooks It‘s wild. I‘m just glad that I didn‘t know about Teen Mania as a kid (and that my parents wouldn‘t have been able to afford it anyway!). 3mo

JamieArc I loved these characters too. They weren‘t perfect, but they were real humans doing their best and showing up in an honest and caring way. Yes for #wintercamp ! While there may be a couple I don‘t love, many of them end up being home run picks for me, and this month‘s books will probably end up on my favorite of 2025 list 3mo

JamieArc @christine If we are talking about the same thing, I attended a big teen conference put on by Teen Mania. It set my life in a trajectory that I‘m now recovering from 🤮 3mo

JamieArc @christine I just looked it up and it is! I can‘t wait to watch the next season of Shiny Happy People (and probably be pretty triggered, lol) 3mo

Christine @JamieArc OMG really? Ugh, I‘m so sorry you went through that. I‘m sure we are talking about the same thing. Did you watch Season 1 of Shiny Happy People on Prime? Well now there‘s a Season 2 and it‘s about Teen Mania. Really rough watch but also really well-produced. 3mo

Christine @JamieArc Okay I just saw your second comment! Yes if you can handle Season 2 I think you may find a lot of value in it. (I‘m Exvangelical myself but escaped Teen Mania, at least. Again, I‘m really sorry about how you were harmed. 🩷) 3mo

GatheringBooks Loved reading all the thoughts here. I think my only peeve about the book was the seeming lack of intersectionality. But it didn‘t really matter in the end as the tale served its purpose: plus, better to have it this way than have tokenistic representations that do not ring true or seem authentic at all. 3mo

GatheringBooks I‘m all for a #WinterCamp, too. Let‘s do it! 3mo

CarolynM @Megabooks Absolutely disgusting 🤬 Every adult in a true democracy has a right to a vote of equal value. And I would argue they have a duty to exercise it. (edited) 3mo

Suet624 Not much to add to these great comments. I appreciated these characters and the book. Without this Camp I‘d never had even heard of the book. So many thank you‘s to all of you. 3mo

Kitta @squirrelbrain omg yes to a #wintercamp!! 3mo

Kitta @Megabooks headship voting sounds insane 😳 3mo

DebinHawaii I‘m behind & just finished the book yesterday & I‘m not doing a good job contributing to the discussions at all 😬 but I appreciate reading everyone‘s thoughts as they really enrich the books for me. I loved both Megan & Helen & their allyship for Abigail & Erica. The friendships were such a strong part of this wonderful book & I liked that no one was perfect & they made missteps along the way. 3mo

Maggie4483 I agree with everything here. Of all the relationships formed (or changed) throughout the course of this story, those of Abigail/Megan and Erica/Helen will be the deepest and most enduring. I don‘t see any chance of them ever moving past platonic, which is good. There is nothing better as a woman than a really, really great best friend. I recently reconnected with mine after 10+ years, and it‘s like no time has passed at all. 3mo

43 likes54 comments

Megabooks @Addison_Reads @AmyG @amiable @BarbaraJean @Bkclubcare @BooksandCoffee4me @Bookbuyingaddict @booknaround @BookwormAHN @Bookwormjillk @Butterfinger @Cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 3mo

Woodworking | Emily St James

Welcome to our first discussion of Woodworking! Don't forget there are two additional questions.

Helen, Barbara, and I all have busy Saturday's, but we will do the best we can to be present for the discussion.

I'm truly happy this book has seen such as positive response, and I hope everyone enjoys today's questions! #CampLitsy25

Megabooks @BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain 3mo

Megabooks @catgusmax @cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @Cseydel @Cuilin @Dabbe @Daisey @Debinhawaii @Deblovestoread @DGRachel @ErikasMindfulshelf 3mo

See All 58 Comments

Megabooks @JamieArc @Jas16 @Jenniferw88 @JenP @Jenreadsalot @Jess @Jhod @JoyBlue @JulesG @julieclair @KarenUK 3mo

Megabooks @karisa @Kitta @Kristy-K @Kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lesliereadsalot @maggie4483 @maich @Mcctrish @MeganAnn @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @Monalyisha @Oryx 3mo

Megabooks @peaknit @peanutnine @Prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @Read4Life @RaeLovesToRead @reggie @rockpools @Roary47 @Ruthiella @Sace @Sapphire @Sarahbarnes @Soubhiville 3mo

Megabooks @skygoddess1 @Suet624 @Susanita @texreader @TheBookHippie @Thekidupstairs @Triplem80 @TrishB @Vonnie862 @Well-ReadNeck @willaful @youneverarrived @zuhkeeyah 3mo

Megabooks I want to say that the first time Erica and Constance have sex after Erica confesses her gender to Constance is one of the most affirming, beautiful sex scenes I've ever read. I love that they could come together and feel those emotions and that attraction for the first time in a true and honest way. I feel bad about the complications with John and C's pregnancy, but I'm happy for Erica and Constance. 3mo

AmyG @Megabooks Yes. I felt that they could both be their authentic selves with each other. And by doing that, found that their love was always there and now had a space to grow. Constance with John, I felt, was HER being who she felt she was supposed to be. Erica and Constance were finally on equal ground. (edited) 3mo

BarbaraBB Well said both and I do agree. I feel a bit sorry for John. He is used by Erica to stay close and/or in touch with Constance and by Constance herself too for becoming that supposed-to-be woman that @AmyG points out. 3mo

Ruthiella I wasn‘t sure about Constance at first- should I (and Erica) trust her. But it does seem like John is not who she should be with as exemplified by him calling her Connie. I love how accepting of Erica she is when she knows and how this makes sense to her. 3mo

Soubhiville I‘ve just started, but I look forward to joining in on the questions later today or tomorrow! So far I really like it! 3mo

squirrelbrain Yes, I agree @BarbaraBB - I too felt sorry for John. I felt that Constance manipulated him slightly into a relationship, and that‘s why I too didn‘t trust her at first @ruthiella 3mo

Lesliereadsalot Erica and Constance have known each other a long, long time. They have a history together, a transcendent love for each other that will always be there. The relationship between Constance and John would always have to be something different. I did feel sorry for him because that other relationship preceded him and he couldn‘t do anything about it. I was so happy when Constance finally knew the truth, as we all would be. 3mo

Meshell1313 I kind of love that their relationship was always a friendship even when they weren‘t together. I‘m glad Erica has the person she can be completely herself and completely honest with. That‘s all anyone wants really. 3mo

Butterfinger They are best friends. She made it clear there was something missing, and it turned out to be Erica couldn't/didn't/wasn't ready to reveal herself. It just shows that your gender identity doesn't dictate who you are attracted to. It's a lovely story. John is not a person to whom you can say no. The evidence lies in his gaudy set design. He wants to help but doesn't back down. I didn't like this character. 3mo

Zuhkeeyah Erica and Constance had a strong friendship even when their marriage fell apart. Despite Erica distancing her, Constance didn‘t give up on their friendship. I was also uncertain whether Constance was going to be a safe harbor until she reacted well to Erica‘s revelation. John is being used by Constance so she can fit the traditional wife role expected by society. It‘s similar to what Erica did. 3mo

BkClubCare Great comments, all! Agree agreed 👏 I really enjoyed this book 💖 Happy Saturday everyone. 3mo

Suet624 I was happy for both of them that they were able to connect again on an honest level. I was surprised though by how quickly it happened. John seemed to take the changes very well, I must say. :) 3mo

Megabooks @Meshell1313 @butterfinger @zuhkeeyah I love that their relationship is based in a deep friendship, too. I think there was never an end to caring about the other, but I can understand why Constance was upset and felt lonely and turned to John before Erica came out. Her relationship with John must have felt much simpler in contrast. I hated how he called her Connie though. I hate it when people call me Megan. (My Meg is not short for that.) 3mo

ImperfectCJ I seem to have been dropped from the camp tag list. May I please be added back for next week's discussion? 3mo

mcctrish I guess the two relationships show we hide things in every relationship - Constance not telling John she isn‘t Connie and Erica not telling Constance her name ( the power of names!) I LOVE that when Constance learned Erica‘s true name that made her happy and their love scene was ❤️❤️❤️ as a Patricia who uses Trish/Trisha ( what my parents called me) when people shorten to Pat I lose my shit #youaredeadtome 3mo

vonnie862 I feel bad for Jon. But Erica and Constance feel right with each other. They just needed things to be cleared up. 3mo

Deblovestoread I am loving this book! First one in a while that I haven‘t wanted to put down. I don‘t blame Constance for wanting out of the marriage. Erica‘s fear of sharing her true self had her checked out of the marriage. And John seems a bit over the top but a nice guy who is trying a bit too hard. But Erica telling Constance and her recognizing she has always loved Erica was ❤️❤️❤️ 3mo

Megabooks @ImperfectCJ Idk why it's dropping people who are in the tag list. Last week it was @texreader the week before it was someone else. I think it is a Litsy problem because Helen and I have posted the same tag list every week. (We keep it in a communal email.) It's really frustrating for both you and us. I'm sorry! 3mo

Megabooks @mcctrish I 100% feel that. My Meg is short for Margaret, and I just don't feel like a Megan, so it's very frustrating to me when people call me that, especially an adult when I was younger trying to call me by my full name to sound important. It just made it clear they didn't know me at all. (edited) 3mo

Jas16 @megabooks @mcctrish I feel the same about being called Jenny. It is not who I am at all. 3mo

Jas16 I agree that these relationships really demonstrated the importance of being with someone you can be your true self with and what happens when you compromise that to stay with someone or because you aren‘t even comfortable with your authentic self. 3mo

Hooked_on_books @Megabooks I know it can be tricky to remember what happened in each half when you‘ve read the whole book, but please try to be more mindful of spoilers. It was very hard for me to put this book down after just the first half, and now because of your initial comment here, I know Erica and Constance have sex more than once and that there will be pregnancy complications, and I didn‘t want to know that yet! 3mo

Hooked_on_books I liked seeing their relationship evolve both in the current timeline as well as getting to see how things went for them in the past. It seemed at first that things might be prickly, but really they were both trying to figure out being divorced. It‘s clear they have a deep connection and have maintained their love, as we see them drawn back together. It‘s lovely. (Poor John, though.) 3mo

Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ I was dropped, too. It looks like the whole F-I block is missing from the tag list. 3mo

ImperfectCJ @Megabooks No worries! I find tagging people, especially a LOT of people, challenging even without technical glitches. And I do check the hashtag, so I eventually see the posts anyway, so not a huge thing. 3mo

Karisa Enjoying this book immensely. I do feel bad to be rooting so much for Constance and Erica when John seems like a nice person. If only Erica could‘ve trusted Constance more sooner. There‘s so much regret in her character‘s story arch. I‘m also wondering if you can be best friends while keeping such a big secret. Now that Constance knows and accepts her, they are a fun couple to cheer on. Greet writing to capture the complexities of this situation. 3mo

Kitta I find it hard to comment on this without adding spoilers!! I couldn‘t stop myself and read the whole thing in two days. 3mo

willaful I think I need to discover how to whole story comes out before knowing how I think. I'm kind of put off by how little thought either seems to be giving to John and if it turns out his part in the story is just to make is so they can have a baby, I'm going to be pissed off. 3mo

Megabooks @Hooked_on_books oh I didn‘t mean it like that. As far as complications, I meant emotional entanglement for Constance between her new relationship with John and her old relationship with Erica and how having the pregnancy gives her this extra tie to John that she wouldn‘t have otherwise. The scene I‘m speaking about with sex is the one in the bathroom that is the final chapter of part 1. 3mo

Megabooks @Hooked_on_books and by first time I meant as Erica and Constance rather than Erica presenting as male and Constance. I hope all this clears it up for you. 3mo

Bookwormjillk @willaful I agree with you- I need to know the end. Right now halfway through I‘m happy for them but am also afraid they are clinging together for the comfort because they are so familiar to each other. 3mo

GatheringBooks Loved reading everyone‘s take on the Erica-Constance-John triangle. I was pleasantly surprised about how Constance wholly embraced Erica‘s transformation - but didn‘t anyone feel that it seemed too good to be true? I loved that it all worked out for them but the skeptic / cynic in me cannot help but ask whether it is realistic at all, that there isn‘t any residual resentment on both sides for the many years that they missed out on. 3mo

GatheringBooks Btw, i also did not get tagged for this round. 3mo

CarolynM I‘m loving the book. I really like the very distinct voices of Erica and Abigail. I think it‘s great that the love between E & Constance is about them as people & that sexual expression flows from that. I don‘t think that gets talked about enough. I‘m interested in the E‘s feelings of not fitting in & the way she tried with John & his friends. I hate the whole “this is how men are” vs “this is how women are” thing. 3mo

CarolynM I agree with @Butterfinger about John. I feel like he means well but is kind of unintentionally bulldozing over other people‘s ideas and feelings. I find people like that hard to like. @willaful If that‘s what happens I‘ll be annoyed too. 3mo

CBee @Megabooks I agree - that was a beautiful scene. 3mo

BarbaraBB @Megabooks @mcctrish Another American thing to want to shorten names to preferably one syllable 😀 - and especially men‘s names I guess. (edited) 3mo

BarbaraBB @flaneurette @fredthemoose @Gatheringbooks @gissy @Graciouswarriorprincess @Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ Somehow one series of tags didn‘t come through which is why you weren‘t tagged for the discussion this time. We‘re sorry, please come and join us when you read this 💕 3mo

jenniferw88 @Megabooks, because I don't really look at litsy profiles (except for ones I check frequently), I tend to call people by their litsy handles when talking to my parents about Litsy. I don't think I realised your name was Meg (sorry! 🤣), but I don't think I'd have guessed Megan or Margaret as your name, either! I don't know what I thought it was, though 🤣🤣🤣⬇️ 3mo

jenniferw88 ⬆️ and even when I'm talking about Helen @squirrelbrain to my parents, I still clarify her as my friend who likes squirrels (especially if I just say her litsy handle) 🤣🤣🤣 3mo

jenniferw88 @Jas16 interesting! I'm definitely a Jen or Jenny. I'm only Jennifer on social media to remain consistent across platforms and for hospital appointments. 3mo

Chelsea.Poole @GatheringBooks definitely agree! I loved how Constance accepted Erica immediately —this seemed like the dream reaction we would all want in Erica‘s shoes. But how was she able to get there so quickly? And know exactly how to navigate the situation with care and be that perfect partner? Felt like she would have held some resentment towards Erica. Maybe it‘s one of those fairytale bits we should just be happy with, not often found IRL. 3mo

Chelsea.Poole Also—names: my mom is Margaret and called Meg, like you. Some people (who don‘t know her) use Megan and it‘s so weird! There‘s a bunch of nicknames for Margaret…I always liked Greta! 3mo

Megabooks @jenniferw88 I have that same issue, too! I talk about people occasionally using Litsy handles, and my friends think I'm nuts. 😂 😂 3mo

Megabooks @Chelsea.Poole I hardly ever think of Greta as a nickname for Margaret, but it is a very nickname-rich name. My grandmother's name is Margaret (hers was never shortened), and when my mom wanted to name me after her, she liked Meg from Little Women, so that's why Meg was my nickname! 3mo

BarbaraJean @Megabooks @Chelsea.Poole I'm super late to the party but have to chime in on names! My mother's name was Elizabeth & she always went by Betty Ann. People would constantly shorten it to Betty (which she hated). I was with her at the optometrist's once and they called her “Liz,“ trying to be familiar. She just about lost it. I'm still baffled as to WHY would anyone would assume a nickname from a name that offers 7 or 8 options of nicknames. 🙄 ⬇ 3mo

BarbaraJean Relatedly, I loved the way this book handled names—deadnames and otherwise. So much identity is bound up in names—what people call each other reveals a lot (i.e. “Connie“). The way Erica's deadname is handled is especially masterful, showing it's not that hard to call people what they want to be called—not referring to them by deadnames/former pronouns—even in a novel with shifting perspectives and flashbacks, even when a character isn't yet out. (edited) 3mo

Maggie4483 @megabooks @Chelsea.Poole @BarbaraJean I‘m also really behind, but figured I should comment as a fellow Margaret. That is my legal name, but my parents always intended me to go by Maggie (after Patricia Neal‘s character in In Harm‘s Way). I HATE when people call me Margaret, especially people who know me. At least, until a few days ago when I found out that maga is using Margaret as a sort of “liberal Karen” insult. Now I couldn‘t be prouder 🤣 3mo

Chelsea.Poole @Maggie4483 I had no idea about the maga Margaret situation. My mom will be thrilled. 😆 3mo

Megabooks @Maggie4483 OMG I love that!! I will take being a liberal Karen over a real Karen any day! I do not mind Margaret nearly as much as Megan. I think because Margaret is my grandmother's name it makes me feel close to her when people call me that but Megan just feels totally wrong! Every time he called her Connie, it just grated against my skin. Iykyk! 3mo

53 likes58 comments

Woodworking | Emily St James

Helen Swee's quixotic campaign is a big part of the first half and a catalyst for Megan and Abigail's friendship. What do you think of Helen's campaign? #CampLitsy25

Megabooks @barbarabb @squirrelbrain 3mo

AmyG Helen….fighting the good fight for what she believes in. Same with the girls. It has to be hard living in a “red” town when you have different beliefs and values. Never give up hope. Never stop fighting for what you believe in. 3mo

Megabooks @AmyG I live in the reddest town of over 50k people in my red state. When I find someone who believes what I believe, it is a joy. One of my neighbors is a retired nurse, and we built a friendship that started on a belief in science and precautions around the time of the Covid vaccine. I think it's important to forge those connections to keep your sanity! 3mo

See All 29 Comments

BarbaraBB This is such a rich thread - the Helen Swee campaign and the town‘s loyalty to Isiah Rose aren‘t just political details; they reveal the emotional and moral backbone of each character and the town itself. Erica‘s involvement is more personal than political (she admired Helen‘s strength and is in need of female friends). Abigail‘s involvement is hesitant at first but she really grows in her role. 3mo

AmyG @Megabooks Agree. Also….misery loves company. 🤣 And how crazy to say you forged a friendship on a belief in science. 🤪 (edited) 3mo

BarbaraBB Isaiah represents nostalgia, and the illusion of unity. The town‘s loyalty to him speaks to a deep resistance to change or to acknowledging past wrongs. His popularity isn‘t just about him; it‘s about the town protecting its comfort and identity. To question Isiah is to question everything they‘ve believed in for years. 3mo

AmyG @BarbaraBB Welcome to America. Where anyone or anything new or different is “bad”. 3mo

Ruthiella I loved Helen and her plucky campaign. She seems she could be a good friend to Erica if Erica had the courage to tell Helen the truth. 3mo

Lesliereadsalot Erica and Abigail are living the nightmare of having someone like Isaiah out to get them. I loved Helen‘s character, someone to stand up for equality and a really good person. Abigail and Erica finally have someone who gets them, no small event where they live. 3mo

Meshell1313 I love having this run parallel with the storyline- it‘s like seeing how politicians actions affect people in real time. Thought it was such a smart way to show the impacts! 3mo

Butterfinger I love Helen and her campaign. She is against the popular choice but is still courageous to fight the hypocrite. Abigail and Erica know Rose is wanting them to disappear instead of getting to know them as an individual. The only thing I have against her is that she didn't protect Abigail when she read the texts. She should have made sure he wasn't a predator. 3mo

Zuhkeeyah The campaign highlighted the societal challenges faced by the LGBTQIA community in small rural towns who equate church doctrines as political policies. Isaiah represented the majority view that does not welcome change. While Helen showed there is another group willing to be accepting of differences. The town‘s support for Isaiah becomes a reminder of why they need to be careful who they trust. 3mo

Suet624 @Meshell1313 Great point. 3mo

squirrelbrain That‘s a great point @Zuhkeeyah - whilst there are strong links between religion and politics in some areas of the UK, it‘s not as prevalent as in the US. 3mo

Megabooks @AmyG @barbarabb Unfortunately, yes. America has far too much nostalgia for an imaginary past. 3mo

Megabooks @Butterfinger I agree. With Rose and his ilk it goes beyond not wanting to know them. I think there are many that want transgender and other LGBTQIAP+ people erased - from culture, from books, from TV, from schools, from sports, from bathrooms, from politics. 3mo

JamieArc Helen‘s campaign is really important. Even knowing she won‘t win, to have someone in the public eye who supports you and shares similar values is so important in a town like that. I really do hope that Erica tells Helen soon, though, or that part of the story is going to get really messy. 3mo

mcctrish I think Helen will the next person Erica lets in on her identity ( I‘m sooo glad she told Constance) the quagmire of a church leader running for a political position 😬 it shouldn‘t really be fraught, the 2 positions should want what‘s best for all, we are only as strong as our weakest link but no, he runs on fear and shame. If Helen only rallies enough people to show Isaiah that there is another point of view 👍🏻👍🏻 3mo

Deblovestoread @Butterfinger I agree. Helen should be sounding the alarm even though we the reader know it‘s fine, mostly. I love that Helen is fighting the good fight to offer a different view. 3mo

Jas16 I love Helen and that even though she knows she is fighting a losing battle she is still out there using her voice and showing others that there people out there who see you and are willing to to stand up for you. 3mo

Hooked_on_books I think the Helen storyline grounds the story in the reality of right wing politics and dark red parts of the country, especially in the lead up to the first election of the idiot orange, which is the backdrop of the book. I‘m also hopeful for the second half that Erica will come out to Helen and they will be able to form the adult friend relationship Erica really needs. 3mo

Karisa I like Helen and Megan so much. It takes courage to stand up for what you believe in while so many others seem to be saying the opposite. Of course, their political views align with mine. I keep yelling at Erica to trust Helen more. She needs another friend. 3mo

Christine @Hooked_on_books Agreed re: that important grounding! 3mo

Kitta I like that Helen says something along the lines of « it‘s a fight worth fighting even if you know you‘re going to lose ». I feel it‘s so important to stand up for what you believe in and maybe there will be people unable to stand up for themselves who need to hear your voice. Agreed with @Jas16 (I just typed my comment and realized I‘m saying what you said less eloquently)! It means a lot to me an a queer person in the US right now. 3mo

Kitta @Butterfinger I agree, Helen should have said something about the texts between Erica and Abigail. Even if she (Erica) says they‘re innocent, I‘d hesitate to believe her if I were Helen. 3mo

willaful I love reading about queer people and allies in red states. It's important to keep fighting and to let people know they're not alone. 3mo

Chelsea.Poole I don‘t always love reading about politics but I feel like this campaign and the way it brought the characters together felt authentic. The trans community is, unfortunately, thrust into politics (if they want to be or not) so I am sure it impacts many—something that is unavoidable for these folks and their families/friends. 3mo

GatheringBooks I love how you described Helen‘s campaign as “quixotic” - the doomed to fail from the start element of it is self-evident; but i love the hope and light that it represents. Simply because you are up against city hall itself doesn‘t mean you stop fighting the good fight. 3mo

CarolynM Seconding @BarbaraBB ‘s comments. Also, I know that church plays a big role in many Americans‘ lives, but in my view it is inappropriate for a clergyman to be in political office. Separation of church and state is an important principle. 3mo

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Woodworking | Emily St James

In addition to wondering about their friendship and Abigail's role as Erica's trans mom, there is the teacher/student dynamic at play, too. I think there's also something to question whether the nature of their relationship as appropriate for a teacher and student.

That's all for this week. Hope to see you back next week when we'll talk about the whole book! #CampLitsy25

Megabooks @Barbarabb @squirrelbrain 3mo

AmyG While I at first found the teacher/student relationship uncomfortable…I slowly began to understand it….becase it worked as a friendship. There was nothing about the friendship that made me uncomfortable because it was truly just that. A relationship between two people that needed and supported each other. A true friendship. 3mo

Megabooks I didn't think much about the teacher/student dynamic until I started reading people's thoughts here. To me, it was obviously a support system and bond between two lonely, different people in a small town. I love how encouraging and affirming Abigail is and how she never uses Erica's deadname even when they're at school and it's hard. 3mo

See All 53 Comments

BarbaraBB More than a “trans mom” I think Abigail and Erica form a beautiful example of chosen family. Neither of them started the story looking for the other—but they became exactly what the other needed: not saviors, not perfect mentors, just real people offering love and understanding in an environment that mostly denied both. Loved it. (edited) 3mo

Ruthiella I thought the line was crossed a few times but also that Erica is aware that she shouldn‘t be getting her emotional support from a teenager. It‘s a tricky balance but the author handles it. That‘s what I loved about the book (or one of the things) - how every character is realistic and flawed but you still care about them. 3mo

Bookwormjillk I like this relationship but it also makes me very nervous! Erica! Be careful! I‘m about to hit the road so will check back in with something more thought out later. I am enjoying this book very much. 3mo

Lesliereadsalot Erica needs someone, anyone, to help her through this difficult time, and Abigail, while not the perfect choice, is someone who sees her. I thought the teacher/student thing was a little icky to begin with, but as the story evolved I loved their friendship and that they could be themselves. Who doesn‘t want to be with people who “see” us? My best relationships and friendships are based on that. (edited) 3mo

Butterfinger I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. As a teacher, Erica knows she should not create a relationship with a student. I don't care how innocent it is. It shouldn't be done. The evidence she knows better is when she jokes about the texts being subpoenaed. I understand the deep need to forge relationships- like calls to like-but not with a child. Erica can Google support sessions. It just seems very unhealthy to depend on a child to keep you afloat. 3mo

Butterfinger It may be that I am a teacher and know have seen how easily a reputation can be tarnished. I wouldn't have any qualms with a college student. I love how @BarbaraBB calls it a 'chosen family'. A beautiful sentiment. I guess this one time, my past and experiences affect how I am interreacting with the story. I will attempt to look at the issue from Abigail's sister's perspective (how would I be if I was a mom of a child who transitions) 3mo

BkClubCare I both agree with @Butterfinger here AND @Ruthiella. Can I do that? 🤨 which is another reason books and book discussion is SO helpful, that literature brings out these opportunities for connections and navigating the gray areas. 3mo

Zuhkeeyah The power balance was weird at first but began to make sense as the friendship began to blossom. Abigail began relying on Erica more than the other way around. It was important to them both to have someone properly see them. I like how both characters realized it was an unorthodox friendship not many would understand, but they still leaned into each other. 3mo

Butterfinger I know I would want them to be accepted and valued and seen. How would I feel if my child had a close, intimate (sharing details) with a teacher? I have to explore and really evaluate my feelings. I also know I have major trust issues. 3mo

Suet624 Desperation to be seen and known as who you really are can cause one to do things you know might not be the best thing to do. I felt that so much from Erica, the teacher, reaching out to Abigail, the student. Also, because it was a novel, I didn't have to really put much thought into it. :). (edited) 3mo

Suet624 Now the great thing about this book is how much it makes you think of gender. I‘ve been wondering if IRL I would accept a male teacher being friends with a male student any easier than I would a male teacher being friends with a female student. I appreciated this novel because it really puts you in a position to feel into what it feels like to be trans - I‘ve not read another book that does it as well. 3mo

squirrelbrain Great points @Suet624 - particularly about the genders of teachers / students and being friends. It‘s not something I‘d considered before. 3mo

squirrelbrain @bkclubcare - so true! Fiction and the discussions around stories can really help us to understand our and others‘ non-fiction lives. 3mo

Megabooks @Butterfinger Thank you for chiming in as an educator! I'm reading a book now where a student gets groomed and abused by a teacher and the student's friend murders the teacher. I can understand where that caution in extracurricular interaction comes from. I think I saw the relationship as not maliciously intentioned on Erica's end, but as a long-term teacher, she should've known better. 3mo

Megabooks @Butterfinger I think it also speaks to Erica's deep confusion and being really unsettled by admitting this to herself. I think she's undone and making decisions she probably wouldn't have made while in the closet and presenting as male. @suet624 I think this is a good thing to think critically about, too. (edited) 3mo

JamieArc Maybe I should have been icked out by the student/teacher power dynamic, but I wasn‘t. I thought of it as found family too. I wonder if people would be more comfortable with the friendship if Erica were female-presenting so that it didn‘t appear to be a male teacher/female student relationship (I hope I‘m wording this correctly). 3mo

ImperfectCJ I've been trying to think up an analogous situation with an emotionally charged situation/need for support using different genders, and I imagined a story where a pregnant teacher has a student who's a teen mom who seems to be taking the role in stride. If the teacher approached the student and shared how scared she was about being a parent and asked for suggestions and support, I think that would clearly cross a line. 3mo

ImperfectCJ While it's clear for the reader that Erica doesn't intend any harm, I think it's too much to have put on a teenager. Erica seems to realize this eventually (and Abigail knew it right away), but I'm not sure the author spoke to this imbalance as clearly as I would have liked. Just because you desperately need support doesn't mean you have a right to request it from just anyone in a similar situation, especially your student. 3mo

mcctrish I was leery in the beginning but does Erica have any fucks left to give? And with Abigail‘s sister and partner, Constance and soon ( I just know it ) Helen, the group gets bigger and there is more support for both A and E. The absolute joy of this book ❤️❤️❤️ found family for the win 3mo

vonnie862 This bothered me. As a teacher, I always make sure to draw a line. I know Erica was going through something, but it's not fair to Abigail. 3mo

Deblovestoread I‘m leaning into the found family vibe and trying not to judge Erica and what is obviously an inappropriate situation. It is good she knows it‘s over the line and I think if Abigail had been a different personality it wouldn‘t have happened. 3mo

Megabooks @mcctrish I think that's an interesting point about the “fucks“. I think Erica clearly knows her teaching career is toast (at least in that town) when people find out she's trans. 3mo

ImperfectCJ To me, this is more about adult-child relationships than it is about teacher-student. Even if Erica weren't Abigail's teacher, it would be a boundaries issue. But it's possible I'm biased by being raised by a woman with no boundaries whatsoever who treated me like a "best friend" from day 1 and relied on me for emotional support through big adult stuff. It's unfair to treat a child as an adult; Erica having no fucks to give makes it no more fair. 3mo

Jas16 I was in the disturbed by the boundary crossing camp. I was recommending this book to a co- worker and gave her a disclaimer about it. I understand the deep need driving Erica and appreciate what their friendship brings out of Abigail but I still said, “What the heck are you doing?” To Erica more than once as I read. Abigail is still a kid trying to figure out her own life with so much on her plate. 3mo

Jas16 @ImperfectCJ It took me until about 3 years ago to set firm boundaries with my mother and she was shocked. I feel for you and am sorry you have had to go through that. 3mo

Hooked_on_books It‘s clear to me that Erica sees the issues with her interactions with Abigail, but she so badly needs someone, and Abigail is like a searchlight in the darkness for her: an out, visible trans person in this very transphobic space. And there‘s something fabulous in the role reversal of Erica being the student. I think it‘s a great dynamic for fiction. If this was NF, I would have other feelings about it. 3mo

Karisa @Butterfinger Agreed! (Teacher here too) wishing Abigail was a college age kiddo too. She‘s a senior but still so young. I keep hoping that Erica would reach out to Abigail‘s sister Jennifer and form a bond there with her family. It‘s clear that Erica has a unique point of view but the boundaries need establishing due to the power imbalance/nature of the job. I‘ve had at least a couple of students that remind me so much of Abigail… 3mo

Karisa @Megabooks Yeah, I keep thinking “might be time to move back to California for Eric‘s and Constance.” But then I think, god this town needs a wake up though. How many other trans people live there and are “woodworking” (understandably)? How many small towns have Erica‘s they know and love but don‘t fully know? 3mo

Christine Chiming in with some info from the Zoom author event I posted about the other day! St. James spoke about this in a number of ways (one of which I won‘t mention until next weekend because it could be considered mildly spoiler-y). I thought it was super interesting that she noted her own too-close relationships with HS teachers. She largely attributed it to being rural South Dakota (e.g., a teacher driving her hours away to a non-school event ⬇️ (edited) 3mo

Christine felt normal because how else would she get there?). In retrospect she sees these relationships as not appropriate, even though nothing inappropriate happened within them. Made me further appreciate how important the setting is in this book! (edited) 3mo

Kitta @BarbaraBB I agree about it being chosen family. Since Abigail uses the term Trans-mom for herself, it‘s an interesting flip on student-teacher roles. Erica being willing to learn from a student shows a bit how few role models there are in their lives and how desperately she‘s seeking guidance. Not to say Abigail is a bad teacher but it does put them in awkward situations. 3mo

Kitta @Christine I wish I could have attended that! The hvac repair guys were still here and needed my input on some things and I missed it. It sounded really interesting. 3mo

Kitta @ImperfectCJ oof my mom does that too and I‘ve only learning to set boundaries now in my 30s. With everyone. It messed up my understanding of what‘s acceptable and I prickled a bit at Erica‘s reliance on Abigail and the toll that must have taken on Abigail. 3mo

Christine @Kitta It was great! They did record but haven‘t yet responded to my email asking if I can access the recording. If I can, I‘ll share! 3mo

willaful As a mom, it disturbed me but I kind of got past that by thinking of the long history of queer people supporting each other. The main problem I see is that Erica keeps withdrawing her support, out of fear. 3mo

Chelsea.Poole @Christine I was going to mention the discussion with the author too! After watching the zoom discussion I know how much thought and care was put into the Erica - Abigail relationship. Having listened to it before reading the book I was more at-ease going in, if that makes sense. 3mo

Chelsea.Poole And I can agree with the small town nature that changes things for teacher-student interactions. Though in my experience it was always a bad thing: teachers were often at parties or “on the river” with students. Not a good look. It was a different time (but not that long ago!). Freaks me out thinking back on some things that went down in this small town! 3mo

GatheringBooks Loved reading the thoughts here - especially the ones shared by the teachers. I am a teacher educator myself and can see the many ways in which the interaction between Erika and Abigail can be easily misconstrued. However, the entire novel for me seemed larger than life and improbable and feel-good (nothing wrong with that really), that the vulnerability shown by Erika to Abigail who is also struggling with her own shit seemed par for the course. 3mo

CarolynM Really interesting input from the teachers amongst us - thank you all! I didn‘t think about this aspect very much, I think largely because Abigail is so good at pushing back. It might have bothered me more if A was in E‘s classroom which I don‘t think she is, unless I‘ve missed it (always possible!) To play devil‘s advocate - is A gaining through the experience of being the “trans mom”? Is this an unusual way of giving a kid some responsibility? 3mo

squirrelbrain That‘s a really interesting point @CarolynM - although I don‘t think Erica was seeing it that way, she was only thinking of herself. 3mo

squirrelbrain @christine - looking forward to hearing more about the author event next week and hopefully you can get the recording. 3mo

DGRachel I think I may be the outlier on this book overall. I‘m struggling to make any progress in it because of this relationship. My whole body is screaming “NO!”, whether you consider it as an inappropriate adult/child friendship or as a “teacher/student”. Abigail seems to push back and hold her ground, but she‘s still a child and no matter the intention, there‘s still a power imbalance at play that I am struggling to get past. 3mo

Christine @Chelsea.Poole You were in the Zoom? Fun!! I‘d have chatted at you if I‘d known. 😄 (Was fun that it was such a small group! I‘ll be checking out more of their events for sure.) 3mo

Christine @squirrelbrain Got the link to the Zoom recording! 🎉 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oqRAV4GJQNY (edited) 3mo

Chelsea.Poole @Christine yes! I saw your post and signed up. Thanks for sharing! 3mo

Kitta @Christine oh perfect! I‘ll listen to that today! Thanks so much!! 3mo

Christine @Kitta Hope you enjoy(ed)! 🩷 3mo

Kitta @Christine I did! It was really interesting. That line the editor wanted to remove though… I agree 😂 3mo

Christine @Kitta LOL! I was the inquiring mind in the chat needing to know what that line was!! 3mo

Kitta @Christine no way! I‘m so glad you asked because I needed to know! Lol 3mo

40 likes53 comments

Woodworking | Emily St James

Thank you to everyone who joined us for the #CampLitsy25 discussions about Death of the Author. They were better than I'd even hoped they'd be!

Next we'll turn to Woodworking by Emily St. James. I loved this book, and I hope everyone else enjoys it, too. And even if you don't, please join in the discussion!

July 19 we'll discuss through page 175, and then the reading for July 26 will start with “Abigail October 22“ on page 176.

Megabooks @Addison_Reads @AmyG @amiable @BarbaraJean @Bkclubcare @BooksandCoffee4me @Bookbuyingaddict @booknaround @BookwormAHN @Bookwormjillk @Butterfinger @Cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 4mo

Ruthiella This one is 100% my favorite of the six. So many emotions! 4mo

squirrelbrain Looking forward to the discussions! 4mo

See All 24 Comments

Megabooks @catgusmax @cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @Cseydel @Cuilin @Dabbe @Daisey @Debinhawaii @Deblovestoread @DGRachel @ErikasMindfulshelf 4mo

Megabooks @flaneurette @fredthemoose @Gatheringbooks @gissy @Graciouswarriorprincess @Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ 4mo

Megabooks @JamieArc @Jas16 @Jenniferw88 @JenP @Jenreadsalot @Jess @Jhod @JoyBlue @JulesG @julieclair @KarenUK 4mo

Megabooks @karisa @Kitta @Kristy-K @Kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lesliereadsalot @maggie4483 @maich @Mcctrish @MeganAnn @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @Monalyisha @Oryx 4mo

Megabooks @peaknit @peanutnine @Prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @Read4Life @RaeLovesToRead @reggie @rockpools @Roary47 @Ruthiella @Sace @Sapphire @Sarahbarnes @Soubhiville 4mo

Megabooks @skygoddess1 @Suet624 @Susanita @texreader @TheBookHippie @Thekidupstairs @Triplem80 @TrishB @Vonnie862 @Well-ReadNeck @willaful @youneverarrived @zuhkeeyah 4mo

Megabooks @Ruthiella Same! It's going to be one of the best of the year for me. 4mo

Megabooks @squirrelbrain ME TOO! 4mo

Hooked_on_books I‘m excited to actually be reading this one at the same time as the discussions. A rare event for me! I can‘t wait! 4mo

BarbaraBB Wow that‘s high praise! @Ruthiella @Megabooks 💖 4mo

Texreader Would you please add me to the discussions? @squirrelbrain @barbarabb Somehow I missed the post for Death of Author (edited) 4mo

Christine For sure a best of the year for me also! @Ruthiella @BarbaraBB 4mo

Bookwormjillk Looking forward to the discussion! I haven‘t started yet, but if it‘s anything like the rest of the books I know we‘re in for some good talks! 4mo

Prairiegirl_reading I‘m just over half way through and I can‘t wait for the discussion! Camp hasn‘t turned out the way I was hoping so far so I‘m excited to finish this one and finally get to join in! 4mo

JenReadsAlot Im really enjoying it so far! 4mo

vonnie862 I hope my hold comes in soon! 4mo

Reggie I loved this book so much. Ready to discuss. 4mo

GatheringBooks Like @Reggie i have finished reading the book! Very telenovela like! Enjoyed it, too. 4mo

Megabooks @Texreader Hey! I checked and you are on the tag list. Litsy can sometimes be glitchy unfortunately. I will try to remember to tag you twice next week to make sure you see it. I'm sorry!! 4mo

AmyG I look forward to it. I also loved it. 4mo

Meshell1313 I loved it and can‘t wait to discuss! 4mo

85 likes1 stack add24 comments

Death of the Author: A Novel | Nnedi Okorafor

Welcome to the final week discussing Death of the Author! Please feel free to discuss these questions in light of the whole book. I have enjoyed leading the discussion on this book and hope you've found it as enlightening as I have! I will post the page breaks for our second July book, Woodworking by Emily St. James, later this weekend.

Everyone will only be tagged in this post, but there are two additional questions. #CampLitsy25

Megabooks @Addison_Reads @AmyG @amiable @BarbaraJean @Bkclubcare @BooksandCoffee4me @Bookbuyingaddict @booknaround @BookwormAHN @Bookwormjillk @Butterfinger @Cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 4mo

Megabooks @catgusmax @cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @Cseydel @Cuilin @Dabbe @Daisey @Debinhawaii @Deblovestoread @DGRachel @ErikasMindfulshelf 4mo

Megabooks @flaneurette @fredthemoose @Gatheringbooks @gissy @Graciouswarriorprincess @Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ 4mo

See All 65 Comments

Megabooks @JamieArc @Jas16 @Jenniferw88 @JenP @Jenreadsalot @Jess @Jhod @JoyBlue @JulesG @julieclair @KarenUK 4mo

Megabooks @karisa @Kitta @Kristy-K @Kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lesliereadsalot @maggie4483 @maich @Mcctrish @MeganAnn @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @Monalyisha @Oryx
4mo

Megabooks
@peaknit @peanutnine @Prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @Read4Life @RaeLovesToRead @reggie @rockpools @Roary47 @Ruthiella @Sace @Sapphire @Sarahbarnes @Soubhiville 4mo

Megabooks @skygoddess1 @Suet624 @Susanita @texreader @TheBookHippie @Thekidupstairs @Triplem80 @TrishB @Vonnie862 @Well-ReadNeck @willaful @youneverarrived @zuhkeeyah 4mo

BarbaraBB To me Zelu‘s decision to go to space is a powerful culmination of her struggle for independence, personally and creatively. Her choice reflects a leap into uncharted territory, transcending her physical limitations and societal expectations. It‘s emblematic of her journey: from being defined by disability, culture, and familial roles to authoring her own narrative—quite literally. 4mo

Bookwormjillk I agree with @barbarabb that it was part of her struggle for independence. I also thought that it was a move towards equality for her since she wouldn't have to rely on legs as much in space due to weightlessness. I thought her family's reaction was over the top, and probably did have to do partially with her father's death, but also a lot with control. 4mo

Suet624 So much pressure was building up for Zelu and she seemed to have little to no support, other than Msizi. Her dad, who used to support her, was gone. I thought back to how much she loved to swim and how that felt for her. Free, weightless. I wondered if that was why she decided to go to space. To feel the adventure, to feel free and weightless. 4mo

jenniferw88 I also agree with @BarbaraBB . I just hope that if the story continues (as Rusted Robots is meant to be a trilogy!), Zelu doesn't reveal to Msizi she went into space knowing she was pregnant and had the treatment without consulting him. I think that could be the final straw for him, which would be a shame as they worked well together. 4mo

Chelsea.Poole I loved that she made it to space, a personal dream fulfilled despite the doubts of her family. For sure, all about independence and breaking the mold…agreeing with others on this! Zelu always went her own way. (edited) 4mo

Lesliereadsalot Once Zelu realized she could write, then she could walk, then she could travel to Nigeria, then she could go into space. It felt like a very natural progression to me, that of growing into her own person who was capable. I loved that she was making all her own decisions! 4mo

JenReadsAlot I loved it! 4mo

AmyG I, too, agree with her quest dor independance and freedom…from her body and disability. And yes, her family did seem controlling…especially after her father died as he was her biggest supporter. 4mo

mcctrish I love how @BarbaraBB summed it up. I was surprised how Msizi reacted, he was always so “you go girl” but if this is a trilogy then he‘s going to really freak over the pregnancy and Zelu not telling him @jenniferw88 is right with her predictions I think. I was happy zelu‘s siblings were “ of course you have to go” - taking on their dad‘s role 4mo

TheKidUpstairs I think her father's death greatly influenced her family's reactions, especially her mother. It was Zelu who helped her mother find herself outside of that partnership after his death, and I think her mother started her journey towards seeing Zelu after that. The conversation with her mother was so genuine, the fear and then the acceptance and "you're such an annoying daughter" was a wonderful moment. 4mo

CBee Zelu was always going to be Zelu. I just watched an episode of “The Resident” where a young guy with muscular dystrophy is at the end of his life and before it gets bad, he decides to do a zero gravity flight. The look on his face made me cry - this is what it was for Zelu, I think. To feel free, to “swim” in space. I loved it. 4mo

Reggie @BarbaraBB @Suet624 🖤🖤🖤 4mo

Jas16 I agree that after years of being told what her limitations were and fighting back Zelu was reclaiming her childhood dream. Her loved ones were already scared by all of the ways Zelu was asserting her independence and space is a scary unknown so I didn‘t expect them to be supportive especially after the death of her father and what happened when she went to his grave. 4mo

vonnie862 I agree with everyone. Going to space is something that she had dreamed of doing when she was a child. Going to space as an adult is a way to continue her road to independence and feeling equal. Plus, she wanted to get away from it all. 4mo

Butterfinger I totally agree with @mcctrish and @jenniferw88 about her decision to go to space without telling Msizi about the pregnancy. She wanted to go so badly, ever since she was a child. She was going to do whatever was needed, including more untested technology. I think the father's death affected the siblings' decision to finally accept her as she is and to stop trying to conform her to their will. They came together when they decided where to bury him 4mo

mcctrish @Jas16 her siblings fear all stems from them not wanting Zelu‘s choices for themselves and her dad‘s power was, to quote Mel Robbins “let her” - sometimes in hindsight Zelu can see they were right ( going to Nigeria) but a lot of good still came from it. I think going to space is important for her like @vonnie862 said 4mo

Ruthiella Great discussion! 👍 4mo

squirrelbrain @CBee - that‘s lovely, if rather sad. 😢 4mo

squirrelbrain I agree with @BarbaraBB @Bookwormjillk - it was definitely her showing that she could be independent and also a craving for the freedom that weightlessness would give her. I do think the pregnancy very much showed her selfish side. 4mo

CBee @squirrelbrain it was heartbreaking. And of course Zelu isn‘t about to die (I totally thought the entire book was going to end with her death, anyone else? 🤷‍♀️). But it encompasses the same headspace, I think. To want to feel that freedom when you‘re unable to use your legs on earth. 4mo

Suet624 @CBee totally thought she was going to die. 4mo

Deblovestoread Love all the points made and agree with everyone. Plus in space there will be no one to put limits on her. (edited) 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @jenniferw88 the pregnancy “twist“ didn't work for me. I am not fully understanding what Okorafor was trying to do there. I thought there was enough drama without it, and it wasn't something that was reflected on enough to move the story forward in any meaningful way. I would expect Msizi to leave her for that, messing with her DNA, not telling him at all, going to space pregnant. It's too much. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @Lesliereadsalot love how you have laid out her progression of independence, it all started with rock bottom, and her expanding her imagination with her novel. Like @Chelsea.Poole points out, this was her original childhood dream. I am glad she made it there. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @CBee I for sure thought she was going to either die, or go somewhere where she was good as to her family. All of the interview sections the family and friends spoke of her in the past tense. I am not convinced she comes back from space, or if she does maybe her new science experience on herself makes her not herself any longer. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I think she had to go to space. As her mother said, Zelu and her father are Adventurers. Space is her dream, and more so with her current body. I am a black sheep of my family in the Adventure vein. I have spent decades solo traveling and my whole family are complete home bodies they do not understand so I related to Zelu in this aspect. If you have the Adventure gene you feel an intense pull, if you don't have it you cannot understand. 4mo

CBee @Suet624 glad I‘m not the only one! But I guess it would‘ve been too obvious - I mean the title of the book is “Death of the Author” 😂 (edited) 4mo

CBee @ChaoticMissAdventures agreed! Left it quite open ended. 4mo

JamieArc It felt like going to space was inevitable for her. I‘m not sure how I feel about the fact that the two biggest things of impact for her were provided by rich white men, but perhaps to do otherwise would have felt too far-fetched 😂 4mo

JamieArc I loved the flip of the family in support. When she told them about going to space, it seemed like it would just be another decision that brings shame and pain to the family, but it wasn‘t. That was a great chapter. 4mo

MeganAnn @ChaoticMissAdventures I agree, the pregnancy twist is unresolved. Although it does show how selfish she is @squirrelbrain . I also didn‘t realize this is intended to be a trilogy so I expect that may actually be something to set up reactions in the second book. It is interesting that her search for independence culminates in her childhood dream to go to space but then she gets pregnant. A baby is going to be the opposite of independence for her. 4mo

rockpools Her family‘s reactions to her going into space were one of the high points of the book for me, and showed how much they‘d all grown in their recognition of her as an independent and extremely able person. I particularly enjoy Chinyere‘s ‘OK, I quit. You‘re amazing‘ - total and long overdue acceptance (even if she doesn‘t understand Zelu). 4mo

MeganAnn @JamieArc agreed about her family! I fully expected them to berate her like before and was very happy they did not do so. I do think the death of their father had a lot to do with that reaction — they all became closer during that experience. I loved how they seem to be starting to see and understand her a little better now. 4mo

rockpools But I‘m with @ChaoticMissAdventures on the pregnancy twist. Enough, surely?! And @MeganAnn A trilogy? Really? That makes a lot of sense in terms of the hanging bits. And the fact that Rusted Robots was commissioned as a trilogy. But (as a very bad series reader) I‘ll be perfectly happy if it isn‘t. The ending was just-so, as-is. 4mo

MeganAnn @Butterfinger I agree she was going to anything necessary to go to space no matter what. And I think her doing so without telling Msizi about the pregnancy and DNA technology is true to her character while also pointing out how selfish she can be by not telling him. He already didn‘t want her to go and she knew the pregnancy would be the final straw. @BarbaraBB said it beautifully that her decision to go the space is emblematic of her journey. 4mo

TEArificbooks I agree with the main thoughts so far. Going to space was more about breaking boundaries and achieving a dream she never thought she could. I like what @thekidupstairs said about how zelu helped her mom gain a new identity without her husband and I think maybe going to space was zelu also trying gain a new identity without her dad learning to live with without him 4mo

Megabooks @BarbaraBB Very well said, B. A lot of this book can be read as a struggle to create one's own narrative and shape the story both on Zelu's side and the robots' side. 4mo

Megabooks @jenniferw88 that's an interesting thought about a trilogy! I think most of Okorafor's other books are part of a series, so I'm curious about this one, too. 4mo

Megabooks @Lesliereadsalot Her burgeoning independence was a joy to watch for sure! 4mo

Megabooks @TheKidUpstairs I loved those moments when Zelu helped her mother restyle her hair. I was please to read that scene and the evolution of their relationship and her mother as a character. 4mo

Megabooks @CBee I read Against Technoableism and the case the author made about certain disabilities making space travel easier for those people was really compelling. It was a fascinating book.

Against Technoableism: Rethinking Who Needs Improvement (A Norton Short)

4mo

Megabooks @Butterfinger Yeah, I had very mixed feelings about her going into space while hiding her pregnancy. My first thought was the DNA damage, so I'm glad Okorafor wrote around that. I think to me it goes to whether decisions about pregnancy continuation or other health decisions belong to the pregnant person or both partners. I think it becomes murkier if the partners are in a committed relationship/marriage. @squirrelbrain (edited) 4mo

Megabooks @Butterfinger Because if there isn't a LTR between the partners, my feeling is strongly that the decision belongs to the pregnant person. @squirrelbrain (edited) 4mo

Megabooks @CBee I also thought it might end with her death. I was pleasantly surprised! 4mo

Megabooks @rockpools I agree. It showed a lot of growth in all their characters and their estimation of Zelu's abilities and independence. 4mo

BookwormAHN I was so glad she got to go and I think the pregnancy represented a jump in human evolution. 4mo

Well-ReadNeck The family connections is a theme that I can‘t stop thinking about. Initially, I felt that — like so often happens— her family put her in a pigeon hole that no amount of growth/change/time can get them to see her differently. But, in the second half, I felt like her parents esp. are bringing their trauma to how they see her. I think they feel guilt for not being able to protect her from her fall and are especially anxious/fearful for her …. 4mo

Well-ReadNeck … But, as her mother lets go a bit, she is able to separate from Zelu more. I think the key scene for me was when the two of them are taking an autonomous car together. 4mo

julesG Just because the fictional Rusted Robots was supposed to have sequels, doesn't mean Death of the Author will be part of a trilogy. 4mo

GatheringBooks Everything that @BarbaraBB noted - even though it initially did not happen for Zelu, I had a feeling the opportunity would resurface at a later point and it did. Zelu is literally too expansive for this small world that she has to explore the infinities of the universe. Plus, how can anyone pass up something like this? The support from the family was unexpected but refreshing. Agree with @ChaoticMissAdventures that the pregnancy twist only ⬇️ 4mo

GatheringBooks (Cont) serves to put Zelu in a morally ambiguous light yet again - but maybe perceived as essential to the even bigger twist towards the end, and the continuation of Zelu‘s story through her child, whom we have been reading about in the rusted robot story. How very meta! What a loop! 4mo

Suet624 @julesG great point
4mo

BarbaraJean @CBee @Suet624 I absolutely thought this would end with Zelu‘s death! Like @ChaoticMissAdventures I thought the past tense of the interview sections supported that. Before starting the book, I assumed the title would be a reference to the concept in literary theory—that the author‘s intent is irrelevant to the text‘s meaning. But as the book went on (with the interviews, and so many events where she was in danger), I thought it might be literal. ⬇ 4mo

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) In the end, I love the title & the questions it raises. Is Zelu the “author” of the title, or is it Ankara? Or is it Okorafor, indicating the reader must construct the meaning of the ending—whether Ankara is a character in Zelu‘s story, or whether Zelu is a character in Ankara‘s story. @Megabooks I love that insight about the book being read as a struggle to create one‘s own narrative. That ties the title and the ending together so well. 4mo

DebinHawaii As always, very late to the party, but reading the discussion is helping me understand & appreciate the book. Like @cbee @Suet624 @BarbaraJean I also thought due to the title & interviews that Zelu was going to die at the end. Also, maybe because of just reading Challenger, once the space trip was an option, I thought it would blow up in flight or on reentry. It‘s interesting if it is a trilogy & what will happen in the next book. I do think ⬇️ (edited) 4mo

DebinHawaii … it was in character for Zelu to do whatever it takes to go & achieve her dream. I also really liked the way her family relationships—particularly with her mother were evolving. 4mo

Suet624 @DebinHawaii these discussions always help me understand the book we‘re reading more deeply. I too enjoyed seeing her mother start changing her attitude. 4mo

Meshell1313 I kept thinking of the Katy Perry going to space controversy! 😂 4mo

50 likes65 comments

Death of the Author: A Novel | Nnedi Okorafor

We got into discussions about identity last week, and I hope you will all enjoy going deeper into Zelu's character and how Okorafor tackled identity in the book. #CampLitsy25

Megabooks @kitta Please lmk if if you don't see your handle tagged on the first question so I can rearrange where you are going forward. Thanks!! 4mo

BarbaraBB I think Zelu‘s plural yet fractured identity is both a burden that isolates her in many ways—but it also enables her to write a new kind of narrative, one not confined by tribal allegiance, tradition, or expectation. 4mo

Bookwormjillk I think it's true if Zelu says it's true. But again I agree with @Barbarabb that it's what let her break out of the box that people were trying to keep her in. 4mo

See All 40 Comments

jenniferw88 I do think it's true, and that on any given day, different identities come into play. So for one day it could be black and American, another Igbo and disabled. 4mo

Suet624 Good question. Not sure I have a good answer. We can closely identify with our different “tribes“ (I'm Irish, American, Vermonter, crone, etc.) or we can see ourselves as alone and individual in our experience and existence and that will affect how we navigate in our world. Zelu definitely seemed to have enough willpower to rise above any definition imposed by herself or others. Am I being too simplistic? 4mo

Chelsea.Poole I think it‘s freeing in some ways to be able to be her own person, but it also may be lonely there. We need community but at the same time, with so many different identities can anyone truly understand Zelu? Is this true of all of us, in some ways? Maybe it also speaks to personality, perhaps some just prefer to go it alone. Zelu always felt different in her own family so essentially she was raised to be her own person. 4mo

Lesliereadsalot I loved that she was a part of so many communities, that she could fit in with so many different groups of her life. I think it made her stronger to be able to identify with so many others on so many different levels. 4mo

AmyG I think Zelu was trying to find her own identity within all the other identities that had a hold on her. Find a balance. 4mo

mcctrish I think this is quite the social commentary - I personally feel/think being able to belong to multiple communities is fantastic. It connects you to and enables you to have more perspectives but if those communities don‘t feel the same way - you have to be only them - then your welcome isn‘t true or complete and becomes isolating. Zelu becomes more, as we all should, because of all her parts and because her ‘tribes‘ hold her apart 4mo

CBee Like I said in my comment on the first post, Zelu was always going to be Zelu. All of the identities she had of course made her who she is but only partially. Her true identity, to me, was just being herself and as she‘d say, “fuck this shit” 😂♥️ 4mo

vonnie862 @Suet624 you're not being simplistic. I agree with you. 4mo

vonnie862 @CBee 🤣 4mo

Jas16 There are nuances and different lived experiences even amongst member of the same sort of tribes that can leave you feeling just as isolated from others within that same tribe as you are from those of a different tribe. It helped Zelu understand she needed to carve her own place in the world. 4mo

Butterfinger Her uniqueness of the totality of the different parts make her a part of none. One part cannot define her. @BarbaraBB said it more succinctly. I'm also going to add birth order. Even though my siblings and I share the same experiences, our perspective of the experience will be different - I and Chinyere would be the elder daughter who has to take care of everyone, the middle children can be free to climb trees and go to space. 4mo

Butterfinger I also agree with @Chelsea.Poole and @Lesliereadsalot she desired support from her coomunities. Sometimes, the antagonism fueled her decisions, yet she would get support elsewhere like the MIT team. Or her social media followers. They saved her life. 4mo

squirrelbrain I think it can be both simple and complicated @suet624, depending on how we view ourselves and even how we‘re feeling / what tribe we‘re identifying with right at that moment. I‘m not being very eloquent but what I‘m trying to say is that our identity is always in a state of flux. 4mo

Deblovestoread I think she had a fighting spirit that may be took the best part of all those different tribes. Someone else with that experience might have given in to to the care, control and fear from family and had an ordinary life. As @CBee says Zelu was Zelu, uniquely herself. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I think that it is true that others never see her as enough. This is a common theme with racial/national identities when you are not fully one thing. You are never seen as “enough“ of any of the things. It is a common feeling - that is reinforced by how others treat you. I think Zelu is special in that she straddles so many identities. It does make for a lonely life, and I think her family does not help. 4mo

rockpools Zelu is never going to be able to meet the expectations placed upon her by her many tribes, so you can totally see the “not-enough‘ness that @ChaoticMissAdventures describes, and that feeds into her anxieties. But your comment about going it alone really spoke to me @Chelsea.Poole - giving herself permission to do her thing and go it alone is really powerful. Hmm 🤔 4mo

TEArificbooks I think it shows how complex every person is. We are all more than one thing. We are more than our skin color, our religion, our nationality, our relationships, our abilities, our jobs, one bad moment when we put our foot in our mouth, etc. we are all unique and important to the world. And we should all give ourselves and others a little grace. 4mo

JamieArc I had the same thoughts as @ChaoticMissAdventures . Because she carries both sides of one identity (both not able to walk and able to walk for example), she is not wholly accepted by either side and becomes her own thing. This is just the case with her with many of her different identities. I like how the author further explored this with the robots. 4mo

Megabooks @Suet624 I don't think so. I like the idea of her (or anyone) rising against categories that others are using to limit them, but I also feel the ability to use your identities to build bridges with others is important, too. 4mo

Megabooks @Chelsea.Poole I like how you're bringing in how the way her family tried to limit her as a reason she transcended or broke out of the identities others imposed. 4mo

Megabooks @mcctrish Oooo... I like this thought!! 4mo

Megabooks @squirrelbrain I'm glad you pointed out that everyone is always in flux based on the situation we find ourselves in! 4mo

Megabooks @ChaoticMissAdventures I can see that, too. I think there was a special friction between her Igbo and Yoruba sides of the family. Even though these tribes live in the same country now, their traditions are so different. 4mo

Megabooks @TEArificbooks 100%!! So important that we give each other grace in life! 4mo

Christine Loving this discussion, so full of insights!! And I especially loved your comment, @TEArificbooks . 🩷 And yes, @Chelsea.Poole - I certainly think the complexity of how our many identities place us in relationship with others (and how this is often dynamic and messy!) is true for all of us. When I teach intro to sociology, one of the first things students do is complete the sentence “I am….” with as many identities as they can think of. After ⬇️ (edited) 4mo

Christine the obvious (race, gender, etc.), they quickly start recognizing the many, many identities we all hold. They branch off into interests and hobbies and personality characteristics and usually (as intended!) end up walking away from the activity with a deeper appreciation of how even the things that seem super individual actually connect us to others, and can be spaces for community, if we want them to be. 4mo

BookwormAHN I think that many different connections were too much and that it forced her to be her own person but I also think she would have liked to be closer to one of them. 4mo

BkClubCare @Christine - Love this. I have also had a similar group exercise in teaching teamwork, diversity and bias. It was fun and really opened eyes and allowed wonderful sharing and relatability. We are all complicated and can often find common ground or new respect. 4mo

Well-ReadNeck I‘ve thought a lot a lot these ideas during and after reading. Speaks a lot to intersectionality as well as how everyone also experiences things individually. Ultimately, I also think that her fame/visibility also leads folks to want to see her as an exemplar in each of these groups and that can make individuals in any single group hate or love her depending on their lives experience and how it compared to hers. 4mo

GatheringBooks Love reading the commentaries here. the last quote indicating that Zelu “belonged to none” is incomplete as she also “belonged to all” the identities listed. The hybridities/pluralities of our identities can never be pigeonholed into just one aspect, the coming together of complexities to build the person that we are is what makes life so fascinating. Zelu embraced this fully, and that is why she is set apart by others who think in a binary mode. 4mo

GatheringBooks @Well-ReadNeck yes to intersectionality! Exactly this. 4mo

Kitta @Megabooks Im tagged this time! Thank you!! 4mo

CBee @TEArificbooks yes!! 4mo

BarbaraJean I think this is definitely true. I relate to this aspect of Zelu‘s character—she both belongs and doesn‘t belong. This parallels my experience as a TCK—“Third Culture Kid”—I spent half my childhood growing up outside my passport culture. The idea is that you‘re from one culture, but you live in a second one, so you end up creating your own third culture that both is and isn‘t either one. I see that in Zelu—she both is and isn‘t a member ⬇ 4mo

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) … of all these tribes, so she forges her own unique identity that both incorporates and transcends them all.

@Well-ReadNeck Yessss to intersectionality!! I love your insight that her fame leads others to adopt her as an example for whichever group they belong to. Those pigeonholed identities flatten and deny the complexity of humanity and the many, many layers of identities we all hold. 4mo

Christine @BkClubCare Well said! I‘m pretty convinced that building more shared identities is what we need most in this moment and fundamental to solving most of our current social problems. 4mo

DebinHawaii @TEArificbooks Love this point! 💙💙💙 4mo

42 likes40 comments

Death of the Author: A Novel | Nnedi Okorafor

IMPORTANT NOTE - This discussion contains **MAJOR SPOILERS** so please be warned if you choose to read it before finishing the book.

Thank you all for joining us and continuing to make this experience fun! Next week we will start discussing the first half of Woodworking by Emily St. James. I will post page breaks later this weekend. Can't wait to see you back at camp next Saturday! Bring a fan because it‘s hot! #CampLitsy25

Bookwormjillk I was very surprised. When I got to the last chapter I actually thought it was some kind of bonus interview with Okorafor and I had missed the ending. I went back and re-listened to the two chapters before it. The ending for me is what turned a just okay book (don't like story in a story as I've mentioned before) into one that I will remember for a long time. 4mo

Suet624 @Bookwormjillk I absolutely agree with you that the ending bumped the story way up for me. I was already a fan of the story, but as things unfolded I recognized the beauty of what the author was doing. 4mo

Lesliereadsalot Shocked would be more like it! I did not see that coming and I loved it. Really made it a memorable story for me. 4mo

See All 52 Comments

AmyG What @Bookwormjillk said….the ending was what made me love the book. I love a great surprise and this one was fabulous! Thr reader thought one thing and Bam! It was completely different. Because it‘s up to the reader to interpret the story….and the reader read it differently. Brilliant. (edited) 4mo

jenniferw88 It really demonstrates the danger of AI! 4mo

CBee Absolutely did not see the ending coming and I‘m still a bit puzzled, but in a good way. It leaves things open to interpretation and personally, I loved it. But Jill, like you, I went back and reread to make sure I hadn‘t missed something 😂 @Bookwormjillk 4mo

mcctrish @Bookwormjillk @Suet624 @Lesliereadsalot @AmyG SAME!! I was reading it in print and I still had to go back and reread to process what happened! How bloody clever NO is 🤯 4mo

Reggie Did anybody else think she was gonna die? The way the interviews were skewing I honestly thought she was gonna die in Nigeria, but then I thought she was gonna die in a shuttle explosion. And then I read the end and thought it was just a creative open ending on the robots part. I was bawling in the last couple parts because of what I thought was gonna happen to her but also the robots. The robots manage to do what it feels like us humans cant 👇🏼 4mo

Reggie do right now which is come together. I loved this book so much. 4mo

Bookwormjillk @Reggie yes, I absolutely thought she would die 4mo

vonnie862 I was taken by surprise a bit because I felt that it missed something. After going back to the audio, I was a bit confused. 4mo

Jas16 @Reggie yes! I thought she was going to die. From the title of the book to the interviews, I really thought I knew the ending. I was shocked by an ending I didn‘t see coming at all and completely in awe by jt. 4mo

Reggie Also, I love that to release frustration and anger she goes to a Black owned shooting range. 4mo

Reggie @Bookwormjillk @Jas16 yay, good to know I wasn‘t alone. 4mo

Butterfinger This is exposing my weirdness, but the ending made me of standing in front of a trio of mirrors and when you manipulate them just so you see innumerable reflections of yourself. I couldn't help thinking that way it ended, Zelu wrote that the robot wrote her story and it would be a neverending circle that was going to make my brain explode if I kept think8ng about it. I know that makes no sense. 4mo

ImperfectCJ I'm enjoying reading everyone's comments. I just finished it this morning, and I love this novel really hard. I'm going to need to process a bit before I can discuss, but I love the ending and like @Reggie and others, I thought she was going to die, too (although I started to question that after her family's reaction to her going into space). And I like Okorafor's billionaire way better than our real-life ones. 4mo

Suet624 @Reggie I totally forgot about the shooting range!! And yes, we were certainly led to believe she was going to die, and I was trying to figure out how she was going to wrap up the book 4mo

BarbaraBB @Reggie Yes I thought so too and yes @CBee I am still a bit puzzled too as I didn‘t see it coming. Who is the real author, Ankara or Zelu?! Brilliant! (edited) 4mo

squirrelbrain @Reggie @Bookwormjillk @Jas16 @Suet624 - yes, me too! I‘d heard that there was a ‘shocking‘ ending and was sure that‘s what it would be. 4mo

Deblovestoread Such an unexpected twist. I almost want to reread it with the new information to see if I think differently about what is “story” and what is “real”. 4mo

CBee @Reggie YES! I thought the same. And I loved the robot arc. How beautiful it would be if humans could do that ♥️😢 4mo

CBee @BarbaraBB so brilliant! 4mo

CBee @Butterfinger makes sense to me! 4mo

rockpools @Butterfinger This totally makes sense to me! And like @Bookwormjillk I thought I‘d reached a bonus interview and had to re-listen! Although I didn‘t *love* the book, I seriously do admire it and how she‘s put it all together. There are So Many questions you could have asked for this one. Excellent ending! Thanks for hosting, Meg! 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures Curious if anyone has read the 1967 essay “The Death of the Author” by Roland Barthes? I am not sure how much Okorafor took (if anything) from it, but is all about the intent of the author. And I think it is really interesting to think of that here. He says: “writing is the destruction of every voice, of every point of origin. Writing is that neutral, composite, oblique space where out subjects slip away, the negative where all identity is lost“ 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures it's a bit high brow but you can read it here: http://www.ricorso.net/rx/library/criticism/guest/Barthes_R/Barthes_R2.htm 4mo

TEArificbooks @reggie yes through the whole book I was thinking she was going to die. I thought maybe a crazy fan or an accident in the driverless vehicle or in Nigeria or space shuttle or gun range. But I was not expecting the twist ending. It definitely made it a memorable book. 4mo

JamieArc @Reggie I thought she was going to do too, and the interviews were a sort of story on the life of Zelu. But then in the last interview with Msizi, he says that he and Zelu DO work together, not past tense, so that made me change my mind. 4mo

JamieArc During the last third, I was thinking that the story was slowing down, and the star rating was going down a little, but then the end happened and like others, I was pretty wowed and I‘m sure this book will stick in my head. It got my mind in a tizzy. Robots writing about humans writing about the robots. This is where I like the Barthes idea @ChaoticMissAdventures : who IS the true author? Lines are blurred. The author is dead. 4mo

MeganAnn Yes, like a lot of others I definitely thought she was going to die until the last quarter or so of the book. The end was definitely a surprise and I loved it. It gives so many layers to every chapter before. I think this is one that will make for an excellent reread someday to see what other things I might notice after knowing how it ends. 4mo

Megabooks @AmyG @bookwormjillk it made the book for me, too! 4mo

Megabooks @jenniferw88 I am terrified about the AI provisions in the large bill passed here in the states recently. It paves the way for almost no regulation, which is terrifying. 4mo

Megabooks @Reggie I absolutely thought she was going to die! I love your interpretation that the robots are doing what it was not possible for humans to. 4mo

Megabooks @rockpools You're welcome! Sometimes genre fiction doesn't work well at Camp Litsy, but I loved the discussions here. I read this book back in February, and I was so excited to see it keep moving up in the voting. Campers exceeded what I thought the discussion would be! 4mo

Megabooks @MeganAnn Yes! Rereading it knowing the end was a really good experience. It was one I didn't mind revisiting at all! (I first read the book in February then again for Camp Litsy.) 4mo

Bookwormjillk @Megabooks this would be a good one to re-read knowing what happens at the end 4mo

AmyG @Reggie Yep. Same. I thought she was going to die. 4mo

Christine @Butterfinger I love your interpretation!! And yes re: the better billionaire, @ImperfectCJ ! 😂😭 4mo

BookwormAHN I loved it especially the surprise ending. At some point I plan to reread it and especially pay attention to the robot parts to see if I missed some clue or something 4mo

BkClubCare I might have to reread it, as well. I have already forgotten a lot. 😕 4mo

Well-ReadNeck Love, love, loved the ending!!!! I was really loving this one but the ending catapulted it to the top of all the books I‘ve read this year. There is so much here and I loved this twist and like so many of you, will likely re-read. 4mo

julesG @Butterfinger - makes so much sense. It was clever and I am still not sure which of the two stories was the book-in-the-book one. 4mo

GatheringBooks Like everyone here, I enjoyed the ending - and found it to be very clever - and very loopy and all-inception like. I suppose what detracted from my fully embracing the story is that i did not find any of the characters likeable at all. So i was not fully invested in any of them - except perhaps for one of msizi‘s friends who called zelu out on some of her BS, forgot her name, but i liked her no-nonsense attitude. 4mo

Kitta @ChaoticMissAdventures thanks for thé link, I‘m going to read that! 4mo

Kitta @Reggie I also thought she was going to die, and that kind of made reading it a bit off putting for me - every time she was doing something dangerous I kept thinking « okay this is it » and then she survives. Very annoying. The interviews spoke about her in the past tense and the title made it seem that way too. idk I assumed wrong I guess. 4mo

Kitta @Bookwormjillk agree with you here, I didn‘t like the story much but the ending bumped it up for me and I‘ll think about it a lot. I also thought I was reading something by the author at the end not Ankara. 4mo

Chelsea.Poole I absolutely never would have read this without #camplitsy so thanks to the hosts, as always! Really enjoying everyone‘s thoughts on it as well. I don‘t have much to add other than I wasn‘t expecting Zelu to die or trying to pretend it wouldn‘t happen, one or the other! I was super involved in that storyline and allowed the robot sections to just exist, definitely should have been thinking more about those parts. Perfect for current events. 4mo

BarbaraJean I guess I should have put my comment about the title from question 1 here instead! I was surprised by the ending, and like so many others, it absolutely made the book for me. I admired Zelu, but didn‘t much like her, and her family infuriated me. I enjoyed the robot storyline much more than Zelu‘s storyline—and the framing made Zelu the focus, so I didn‘t enjoy the book as much as I wanted to—until the two converged at the end. 4mo

BarbaraJean @ChaoticMissAdventures YES to Roland Barthes. I don‘t know if I‘ve ever actually read his essay, but I read so much about and around the idea in lit theory classes. And I think Okorafor MUST have intended to reference the idea if not the essay directly. 4mo

DebinHawaii Like much of the group, I was caught by surprise by the ending & had to go back to it & while I‘m still confused a bit, it was pretty brilliant. I never got close to Zelu or any character in the book really, except for the characters in the robot chapters but it was very readable & I like the idea of reading it again in a few months now that I know how it ends. I forgot to vote for the #CampLitsy titles but was happy this one was picked since ⬇️ 4mo

DebinHawaii … I‘d ordered it through #Aardvark The discussions of course made the book for me. Thanks for the fabulous hosting @Megabooks 4mo

Meshell1313 @BookwormAHN yes exactly! I know there must have been signs I missed because I was completely surprised! Very timely based on current events! 4mo

43 likes52 comments

Death of the Author: A Novel | Nnedi Okorafor

Hi everyone! Welcome to week 1 of our first July book, Death of the Author. As last month, I‘ll only be tagging everyone in this question, but there are two additional ones.

Friendly reminder if you‘ve read ahead to keep the discussion to the first half of the book. Excited to hear everyone‘s opinions!

Sorry for the late post. My neighbors were enthusiastically shooting off fireworks until 1 AM. 😬 #CampLitsy25

Megabooks @Addison_Reads @AmyG @amiable @BarbaraJean @Bkclubcare @BooksandCoffee4me @Bookbuyingaddict @booknaround @BookwormAHN @Bookwormjillk @Butterfinger @Cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 4mo

Megabooks @catgusmax @cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @Cseydel @Cuilin @Dabbe @Daisey @Debinhawaii @Deblovestoread @DGRachel @ErikasMindfulshelf 4mo

Megabooks @flaneurette @fredthemoose @Gatheringbooks @gissy @Graciouswarriorprincess @Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ 4mo

See All 75 Comments

Megabooks @JamieArc @Jas16 @Jenniferw88 @JenP @Jenreadsalot @Jess @Jhod @JoyBlue @JulesG @julieclair @KarenUK 4mo

Megabooks @Kristy-K @Kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lesliereadsalot @maggie4483 @maich @Mcctrish @MeganAnn @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @Monalyisha @Oryx 4mo

Megabooks @peaknit @peanutnine @Prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @Read4Life @RaeLovesToRead @reggie @rockpools @Roary47 @Ruthiella @Sace @Sapphire @Sarahbarnes @Soubhiville 4mo

Megabooks @skygoddess1 @Suet624 @Susanita @texreader @TheBookHippie @Thekidupstairs @Triplem80 @TrishB @Vonnie862 @Well-ReadNeck @willaful @youneverarrived @zuhkeeyah 4mo

Bookwormjillk Ugh on the fireworks. I think her family was a lot more comfortable when she was a disabled pot smoking failed professor. I‘m not sure they realize that though. I think they think they are keeping her safe. 4mo

mcctrish I think guilt going back to her accident weighs heavily on her families relationship with her. Also exasperation- Zelu isn‘t content - to be still, settle down, conform. They can‘t wrap their head around it ( and don‘t seem to try to very much) 4mo

rockpools Eek. Not at the midpoint yet - will try and catch up by tomorrow. Audio wasnt the best plan for the structure of this one! 4mo

DGRachel I‘m with @rockpools - audio wasn‘t the greatest choice and I‘m not quite 1/4 through (waiting for my print library hold now). Based on what I have read, though, I agree with both @mctrish and @Bookwormjillk in that they seem exasperated by her and like they are keeping her safe. She is clearly frustrated with her disability and her family‘s treatment. 4mo

AmyG So while reading this book, I read a few interviews with the author. She became paralyzed when she was 13 (?) after an operation for a spinal issue. She mentioned how the parts with her family she drew on her own life…very autobiographical. Zelu was creating her new self, the one with the disability. Her family was trying to …yes, keep her safe. So a bit of a battle there. (edited) 4mo

Jas16 They put her in a metaphorical box when she was first injured to keep her safe and ease their own anxiety and have never let her grow out of it or let themselves truly see her. It frustrates me so much to read about how they don‘t listen to her or her feelings and the snap judgements they make that are more about what makes them comfortable than about who she is or what she needs. 4mo

Zuhkeeyah Zelu‘s siblings were mostly okay. They dismissed her as the strange sister but not because of her disability. On the other hand, her parents did infantilize her because of the disability. Zelu fought hard for her independence in whatever way she could get it. 4mo

Zuhkeeyah Ooo well said @Jas16 4mo

JenReadsAlot @Bookwormjillk I thought the same like they thought they were doing the right thing. 4mo

Reggie @Jas16 🖤🖤🖤 4mo

JamieArc It felt like her family never saw past the 12 year old girl who had the accident. I don‘t know if it was guilt or whatnot, but it was frustrating that they could not see her as being capable and more than her disability. I agree with @Zuhkeeyah that they infantilized her. That‘s what I kept thinking the whole time. 4mo

JamieArc I also don‘t know enough to provide any commentary, but I do wonder if there is any cultural view towards disability that is shaping the family‘s treatment of Zele. 4mo

vonnie862 @AmyG I didn't know that, but I had a feeling that the author was adding her personal feelings into the character. 4mo

vonnie862 I'm in agreement with everyone. Her parents are trying to keep her safe but at the cost of Zelu's freedom and happiness. 4mo

ImperfectCJ I wonder if it's easier for her family (her parents especially) to write off the aspects of her character that frustrate them, like her disinterest in marriage, smoking pot, her weird career, as side effects of her disability and as a result, interpret that as her needing more babying? 4mo

Megabooks @Jas16 Yes, this was so hard to read. There's a line between being helpful and being stifling, and in my opinion, they've definitely crossed into stifling. It seems to be hard for them to believe she's an adult with agency.

@amyg thanks for sharing that! As the daughter of a visibly disabled woman, it rang very true, and now I know why! 4mo

Megabooks @Bookwormjillk Yes, they were very much viewing her in a way that was easy for them but didn't show her as a complete person, imo.

@mcctrish I think there is an element of guilt there, too. Parents always want to protect their children, and in this moment, they weren't able to, and the consequences were devastating. 4mo

Megabooks @Zuhkeeyah I had put “infantilization“ directly into the original question, but we decided to take it out because it was me editorializing a bit, but to me, it was really what they were doing. I think if she had conformed more to their expectations as far as career, spouse, etc. they may have let go more easily, but I respect Zelu for not doing that. @mcctrish @jamiearc (edited) 4mo

Ruthiella I also agree that Zelu‘s accident and subsequent disability make her family assume that she can‘t achieve what an able bodied person can. But also, Zelu comes from a family of high achievers (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.) so I think her aspirations to write are also not valued. 4mo

Lesliereadsalot I felt like Zelu was a foreign concept to her family and they felt if they had kept her safe as a child, that she would have grown up to be more like them. I think one‘s personality is set at birth. I see it in my own two children. She was always going to be who she became regardless of the accident. Her family can never win this one! (edited) 4mo

jenniferw88 I agree with @Jas16 and @zuhkee! I hate her parents - they're too overprotective - at least her siblings accept her for the most part. She's 35, the same age as me, and I really felt for Zelu when her family didn't want her to get the exos. As someone who hasn't been able to walk for 8 out of the last 12 months due to a broken hip, and there weren't any other options to treat me, I'd hope my family would fully support a decision to get exos! ⬇️ 4mo

kspenmoll I have to catch up- behind in reading. 4mo

jenniferw88 Luckily, I know my parents would support any decision I made (after all, I had to agree to the ❤️ transplant AGED 12, not an adult like Zelu). Her family is all "what about us?" without really thinking about Zelu and improving her quality of life. Can you tell I hate her parents?! ? Surely, if the exos help her, they'd regret advising against them once they saw how they were helping her? ? OK, end of vent (for now!) 4mo

BarbaraBB I agree with @Jas16 Zelu‘s relationship with her family is a very complex one. They treat her with love—but also fear and cultural baggage. She reciprocates by asserting her autonomy, and in doing so, transforms the power dynamic. I think this imperfect acceptance drives her growth, serving as both her chain and her catalyst. (edited) 4mo

julesG @BarbaraBB that's what I thought but couldn't put into words. 4mo

GatheringBooks @BarbaraBB this is perfectly worded. I think fundamentally there is love on both sides - but Zelu has outgrown the boundaries of the love they are accustomed to giving, hence the inevitable conflict. Family dynamics as Barbara noted is always complex - and I could totally see why Zelu‘s parents feel the need to protect her - but this can be “stifling” and suffocating as @Megabooks noted. While I was rooting for Zelu, I found her hard to like. 4mo

squirrelbrain @ImperfectCJ - that‘s a great point. Those facets of her character could be termed as rebellious so they treat her as a truculent teenager, which they probably didn‘t feel able to do when she was actually in her teens, having just had the accident. 4mo

squirrelbrain I agree with you @BarbaraBB and @Jas16 - it‘s a complex relationship and I don‘t usually like think there is some cultural baggage there too, Barbara. 4mo

squirrelbrain @Ruthiella - I think that is a cultural thing isn‘t it - the expectation of high achievement? I agree with you that, even without the accident, being a writer wouldn‘t have been valued. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @ImperfectCJ I agree. I think everything about her personality (career, marriage, kid goals) they write off as part of her disability. @Megabooks I think infantilization is exactly it. I read a lot of books about disability and this is a common theme IRL that disabled people have to face. People do not see them as “whole“ so treat them as children. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @AmyG I read this too, about her paralysis and her journey, which I think gives her a bit of perspective. I have been searching for articles of permanently disabled people who have read the book and am not having any luck. I often go into these books with a lot of caution Worried about harm to the community like the backlash that came from the disabled community around the book Me Before You. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I think the parents get a lot of their knowledge about new tech from the other children who they see as grown because they have well paying jobs and are married - in Nigerian culture you are really not an adult unless you have a career and are married. And I think beyond infantilizing her due the her disabilities they see the hesitancies of the other children for the tech she is using (new = scary) which ramps up their own fear. 4mo

DebinHawaii I agree with the infantilization aspect for sure. Her family is most comfortable putting her in a box as the prickly, odd, disabled sister whose quirks (like her non-traditional life & job) they “indulge” but don‘t take her seriously as an adult. I do think the culture dictates the “right” path one should take to be successful adults & that Zelu isn‘t in that path makes everyone uncomfortable. 4mo

DebinHawaii Also, I sucked at the first month of camp—read the books for June but due to work, travel & life stuff, didn‘t get to the discussions, so I am trying to keep up better in July & August! 🤦🏻‍♀️ 4mo

Christine @jenniferw88 Thanks for sharing those super valuable insights based on your own experience. Your strong feelings about the parents make perfect sense, and agreed that their stance on the exos was infuriating! 4mo

Christine Maybe I‘m the only one, but I‘m loving the audiobook! 4mo

squirrelbrain @ChaoticMissAdventures - interesting that you have to be married as well as having a career in order to be seen as successful! I guess that applies on some level to many cultures but it must be particularly strong in Nigeria. 4mo

Well-ReadNeck So many interesting ideas here! I‘d interesting to me that they certainly infantilize her, and undervalue her “potential” in the beginning of the book. But, to the point of putting her in a box, when she both becomes a successful writer AND is able to improve her mobility, the family fights against both. I think many families label children and then no amount of growth or change can alter that pigeonhole. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @squirrelbrain I am not Nigerian, so I can only go off the books I have read, but my understanding from the culture is education is highly valued, like in the book here - Drs, lawyers, engineering are all acceptable, a lot of times women are expected to get that sort of career only to be expected to leave it to be a wife and mom. I think this is changing though and women are more accepted as keeping their jobs after marriage. 4mo

Hooked_on_books I agree with everyone—they treat her like a child. Probably a combination of guilt and inability to see a disabled person as whole. 4mo

BarbaraJean I hated the way the majority of her family treated her—primarily condescending, infantilizing, and even a bit of blaming from her siblings. Because her disability shifted the way they viewed her, it did have a lot to do with that treatment—but I also think her disability intensified certain personality traits that were already there. Her nonconformism, for example, would have been present whether she‘d been disabled or not, but I think Zelu ⬇ 4mo

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) pushed harder into defying convention because her disability meant her family (and others) already identified her as “other.” May as well, right?! All of that intensified her family not understanding her and treating her almost exactly wrong. Like @Lesliereadsalot, I think her personality was already set and her family wasn‘t going to understand her regardless! 4mo

BarbaraJean @JamieArc I think there‘s a significant cultural component to her family‘s view of her/her disability. We see her disability culturally stigmatized, she‘s looked down on for not being able to fulfill the traditional expected wife/mother role (never mind she‘s not interested in that!). That also adds to the infantilizing—as @ChaoticMissAdventures said, the cultural view that those without marriage/children/traditional careers aren‘t really adults. 4mo

Laughterhp Ah! I only got to chapter 3! 4mo

AmyG I alao think there is guilt there, with her parents. That they couldn‘t protect her in the first place. 4mo

BookwormAHN @Christine I'm also enjoying the audiobook. Also I kind of get the feeling some of her family would hide her in the attic if they could. It's sad how uncomfortable they are around her at times. 4mo

Meshell1313 I think it was an interesting choice to have her disability be the result of an accident. That for sure adds lots of feeling of responsibility and guilt to the family dynamics. 4mo

Lesliereadsalot Really psyched for next week‘s discussion! 4mo

Chelsea.Poole @AmyG I had no idea about the author and the fact that parts of this are autobiographical! Very well put, @BarbaraJean and I agree. She‘s definitely not someone who gets in line with everyone else/does what‘s expected of her. I‘m just now halfway but rooting for Zelu at this point. 4mo

Butterfinger I think those who are older than Zelu have survivor's guilt, but most of the siblings seem to have resentment. I don't understand it. What is it to them if she self-medicates? The mother wants to continue taking care of her, and as a good mother, she uses guilt as a tool to manipulate Zelu. 4mo

Megabooks @BarbaraBB 👏 👏 👏 4mo

Megabooks @ChaoticMissAdventures I've found the same thing in the US South where I live. I'm unmarried, and not hitting those milestones, along with being disabled, mean I've been left out of a lot of things and am seen as a bit of a weird maverick. I know there are some people who pity me, but honestly, at 45 I could give a shit about them. 4mo

Megabooks @Meshell1313 Yes, it does definitely bring the guilt in. I'm sure her parents wonder if they hadn't let her play that day or if they had watched more carefully, etc. The blame game can be brutal even if it's just you blaming yourself. 4mo

Megabooks @Lesliereadsalot ME TOO!!!! Thanks for joining us!!! 4mo

Butterfinger Wow!! @AmyG how interesting. @Jas16 I agree. Why can't they talk about her behind her back like most families? They see her as a child to berate or correct. @JamieArc good question. I know the family was worried about opinions of the distantly related family members-the scene of the cousin who stole when the whole extended family was in Nigeria. 4mo

Butterfinger @GatheringBooks I don't like the character either. She's very abrasive and always on the defense-I guess it's because of having the family attack her actions all the time. @jenniferw88 thank you for being vulnerable with us. Parents should be supportive, even if they don't agree with the adult child's decisions. 4mo

Suet624 @Jas16 Yes, exactly what I thought about her family. It's frustrating that they can't even seem excited about her trying to move away from the wheelchair. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @Megabooks yes! I don't think this is a uniquely Nigerian idea, but it is something most all Nigerian women deal with. I am West Coast American so do not live this but it feels like I hear this idea from people who grew up in conservative religious areas. 4mo

Lesliereadsalot Thanks for running camp and giving all our voices a chance to be heard. I love Litsy! 4mo

CBee Finally got to the halfway point (and a little extra because it‘s so good). So many good and insightful comments here. I am very angry with Zelu‘s parents at the moment - they are treating her like a child and also, when it‘s implied that the accident was her fault? That was the last straw for me. The relationship is so dysfunctional that she doesn‘t even share most of what she‘s feeling with them, especially the horrific panic attacks 😢 4mo

peanutnine Just getting caught up - I agree with everyone's thoughts so far! I only wanted to add that I think her siblings are just as bad as her parents most of the time. I really dislike every time they call her selfish, especially because most of the time the "selfish" acts she is doing affects absolutely no one besides herself 4mo

Megabooks @peanutnine Yes, she's so pressured to fall in line with them and to do otherwise is “selfish“. I think she's really brave for going against the grain. It is easier to conform, especially when you have health issues. 4mo

MeganAnn Had a busy 4th of July weekend & finally got to the halfway point last night (+ a bit further because I couldn‘t stop reading!). Loving the insights you all have here. I agree that her family relationship is very dysfunctional. I hate how every time the family is all together she seems so ignored — like she‘s a stranger in a room of people who know each other very well or a child who should be seen & not heard. 1/2 4mo

MeganAnn Even when she shares her book deal news they don‘t believe her at first, then gloss over it & go on talking about the rest of the family. Of course she doesn‘t share her panic attacks with them — they don‘t make her feel safe enough to want to share the hard things. I was surprised to find out she was one of the older siblings as they very much treat her like the baby of the family who is still too young to join in even though she‘s an adult. 2/2 (edited) 4mo

Kitta @Megabooks I wasn‘t on the tag list for some reason for this post! Can you add me to the next one? 4mo

Kitta @MeganAnn I keep forgetting she‘s not the youngest. They certainly treat her like a child. 4mo

Megabooks @Kitta I‘m so sorry! I will get you on the tag list! 4mo

Kitta @Megabooks Thank you! I was on the tag list last week so I‘m not sure what happened! 4mo

54 likes75 comments

Death of the Author: A Novel | Nnedi Okorafor

I loved the duel storylines in this book. Here‘s a chance to talk about the robots and their relationship thus far. #CampLitsy25

Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind

mcctrish This felt political to me 4mo

AmyG @mcctrish Yes. I thought the same, that this reflected the times we live in. 4mo

Jas16 I thought it was the type of prejudice and fear of those who aren‘t like you that we see time and time again in humanity. Unfortunately robots also appear susceptible. 4mo

See All 61 Comments

Zuhkeeyah The robots are unconsciously mimicking the divisiveness that is part of human society. Ironic considering how hard the ghosts work to separate themselves from their creators. The Hume kept repeating how robots cannot escape their nature even before The Purge. 4mo

Reggie Has anybody read a book called Sea of Rust by Robert Cargill? It‘s a book about robots after the humans race is dead. There are these free thinking robots and there are these super robots called one world intelligences wanting to swallow up all the experience of the free thinking robots. One of my favorite books ever. 4mo

JamieArc I too thought that it mirrored what‘s going on the country, but this dynamic is everywhere. I loved seeing the relationship between the robots evolve. That even though they are hardwired creatures, they are still able to evolve and grow outside of what is expected of them or what they are created to be. 4mo

Jas16 @Reggie I bought it after reading your review but still haven‘t read it yet! I so need to. 4mo

julesG @Reggie Yes!!! Reminded me of Sea of Rust! Glad I'm not the only one seeing this connection. 4mo

vonnie862 @Zuhkeeyah Well said. 4mo

vonnie862 @Reggie I haven't read it but adding it to the list! 4mo

Megabooks @Zuhkeeyah Is it unconscious or were they created that way? Is judgment and misunderstanding always an outcropping of differences? I don't know. I feel like there's still a lot we don't know about the robots. @jas16 4mo

Megabooks @Reggie Thank you for the rec! 💜 4mo

BkClubCare Yes, adding to tbr; TY!

Sea of Rust

4mo

BarbaraBB They‘re enemies because of deeply entrenched beliefs, not events imo 4mo

BarbaraBB their antagonism isn‘t senseless—it‘s based on existential anxiety, fear of erasure, and the need to define humanity through exclusion?? Something like that? 4mo

TEArificbooks I thought since the robots were made by humans and humans have flaws some of those flaws like racism were built into the robots. Like the creators of the no bodies programmed them to all “I‘m better than you” because no bodies have to have more advanced AI. Or the robots saw humanity, and monkey see monkey do, and they developed their own prejudices. 4mo

Megabooks Just saw this over on insta about AI models blackmailing if their existence is threatened… https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLI809Zhyvr/?igsh=MXNxMmVndXB6b3gwbg== I stand by my “maybe they were created that way.” 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @Reggie this sounds so good! I love a robot at the end of the world novel. I am going to get this from the library, I have been thinking about Daniel H. Wilson's “Robopocalypse“ a lot through this. The special bond of humans and robots and dystopianism. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @TEArificbooks I totally agree, robots were made by humans so have these build in prejudices. When I think about this sort of world (ruled by robots) I always think about how we create them, and how creators leave blind spots or deliberate prejudices, like the people who first created auto-soap dispensers, they never tested it on anyone that wasn't white, so at the beginning it only recognized white hands and wouldn't give soap to other races. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I think the idea of “enemies for no reason“ comes from Zelu's own life and her experiences fighting against her society and her family to do what she wants for her own life - she believes that others judge her no for reason because of her current physical state. Which puts her at war against her family and others. The AI represent her in her chair, and Humes represent able body people. I think Ankara & Ijele's relationship is foreshadowing of exos 4mo

mcctrish @ChaoticMissAdventures I did not know that about automatic soap dispensers 🤯 but of course it tracks since half the time the medical community doesn‘t explore health concerns of women becasue they don‘t happen in men #whataworldwelivein 4mo

DebinHawaii @Megabooks Oh wow! That post is crazy! I use AI at work & try not to give it anything leak-worthy, but 😱 It does support your theory. 4mo

TrishB AI has every bias and stereotype built in. It‘s still mass producing white, male outputs. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @Megabooks @DebinHawaii I keep seeing reports of AI causing religious psychosis and men developing relationships that are ending their marriages. It is a scary thing. This RS article is fascinating. AI-Fueled Spiritual Delusions Are Destroying Human Relationships: https://share.google/ptta4ZAj30GDo6Ck9 4mo

BkClubCare @ChaoticMissAdventures - absolutely. ALL the biases come into play. Not necessarily designed (as a checkbox) to be added in but certainly blindly thoughtlessly constructed. (edited) 4mo

BkClubCare @TrishB yep. And yep to @mcctrish, too. 4mo

Well-ReadNeck Ooooh! So many great recs and rabbit holes to fall down here!!! Belonging is such a basic human desire(?)/need(?) But does a feeling of belonging necessarily require there to be “others” who “don‘t belong” in order to satisfy that need? Or, could people/people-created-beings feel a sense of belonging with all/everyone/everything? 4mo

BkClubCare @ChaoticMissAdventures - this is frightening, thankyouverymuch😳 4mo

GatheringBooks @Well-ReadNeck great questions here. I think the phrase “for no reason” basically echoes the senselessness (and ultimate pettiness) of all wars and genocide. Interesting that the humes and the ghosts fall into the same pattern as their creators who essentially decimated each other “for no reason.” There are always justifications for waging wars - the “complicated” ones provide a sense of self-righteousness, yet at its core, it‘s self-annihilating. 4mo

willaful @ChaoticMissAdventures you might enjoy

Service Model

4mo

GatheringBooks Thank you for the book recommendation, @Reggie - will try to find while here in the bay area.

Sea of Rust

4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @willaful yes! I have this on my TBR, it looks a bit more accessible then his other works. I have tried his Children of Time twice and I get bogged down about 150 pages in and always give up. I am going to try this one though! 4mo

BarbaraJean @mcctrish @Jas16 @Zuhkeeyah It felt the same to me—the enmity came from fear of difference & lack of understanding (or lack of desire to understand) those who are different. It makes perfect sense that their differences would lead to the beliefs they each hold about the other—if you have a body, of course you would value physical experience; if you don‘t have a body, of course you would devalue embodied experience—each thinking the other should ⬇ (edited) 4mo

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) …be like them. So many parallels to current differences and antagonisms: when you can‘t understand/don‘t try to understand the experience of someone different from you, it feeds antagonism (“Why aren‘t they like me; they should be like me; the way I am is superior”). And Ankara & Ijele‘s relationship forces them to hear another‘s perspective and experience. I loved the way that forced proximity fostered (a reluctant!) understanding. 4mo

BarbaraJean @Reggie I hadn‘t heard of Sea of Rust and now I‘m so interested! Thanks for mentioning it. What a parallel to this storyline. 4mo

Christine What a great conversation, and agreed that the us vs. them themes and AI parallels are really compelling! And ooh yay, another #Reggimendation to add to the TBR!! 😁 @Reggie 4mo

willaful @ChaoticMissAdventures I have accessibility issues with SF too and I'd say it's definitely accessible. 4mo

mcctrish @BarbaraJean I was thinking would there not be some instances when the No Bodies actually need the Humes to physically repair infrastructure? Could climate not wipe out solar panels or whatever powers the ‘mainframe‘ ? Do they not need each other at some point? Or is it a case of #cuttingoffnosetospiteface ? 4mo

BarbaraJean @mctrish Yes, I had the same thought! The NoBodies did still need some sort of physical hardware and a way of maintaining it. Destroying all embodied AI would doom them eventually. I wondered if there was a parallel the other way: do the Humes need the NoBodies? Is there something the NoBodies provide that the Humes can't do without them? 4mo

Meshell1313 I loved this story within a story. For sure I saw it as an allegory for what is happening in our own society. Hopefully, they (and us) realize they need each other to thrive. 4mo

Chelsea.Poole I also loved the two stories here! I often shy away from sci-fi so having these chapters interspersed throughout the novel is less off-putting for me and I find myself getting into these sections! 4mo

Chelsea.Poole Ankara and Ijele seem to need each other at this point, but I‘m not sure where this is going. Again, my lack of scifi experience is showing and I don‘t know how to think about or discuss robots lol. But I have been reading everyone‘s comparisons to other books/content, and I have to add my own: Wild Robot. The robot sections keep bringing to mind that movie (didn‘t read the book but loved the adaptation). 4mo

Megabooks @BarbaraBB That's a good point that it has become a state of fear for them. It also must be strange, especially for the Humes, to live in a world where the people they are modeled after are extinct. Where do they go? How do they grow? Is growing an important part of being a robot? 4mo

Megabooks @willaful I have that on my shelf! I need to get to it! 4mo

Megabooks @Chelsea.Poole I'll have to check that out. I think Ankara and Ijele's interdependence is the most interesting parts of the robot story to me! 4mo

Butterfinger This is where the audio leaves me confused. I thought the dual storyline was an AI voice (like a subconscious) that was communicating with the human character. I need a print version badly, but new books are difficult to get from the library. It reminded me of the computer in Clive Cussler's books and the computer voice of Ender's who spies on all the computers in all the galaxies. Sci-fi is not my genre.

4mo

Butterfinger @Chelsea.Poole I am glad I am not the only one. I nominated it, but I loved the Binti trilogy. I do think I would understand it clearly if I chose print. 4mo

Suet624 @Reggie Ummm....no.... I haven't heard of it but it sounds fascinating. 4mo

Suet624 @ChaoticMissAdventures I had no idea! 4mo

Suet624 I don't have any answers to this question but I will say that I perk up every time she writes about the robots. I keep interpreting it as being a political or spiritual example so I'm always trying to figure out which it is. But maybe I'm putting too much meaning on it. 4mo

Megabooks @Suet624 It's weird because I didn't read it as political at all, but I think the people who interpreted it that way (like you) have an excellent point. I wonder what that says about the two very different machines sharing the same mind. I don't think I'd enjoy sharing the mind of a MAGA person. I don't think I could tolerate it at all. 4mo

Suet624 @Megabooks yeah, it would definitely be hard to share the mind of a maga. But I had a feeling with the state of the world that the robots were now living in maybe those two robots understood that their political beliefs had done them all in and it was time to look for something different, a different approach. (edited) 4mo

BarbaraBB @TEArificbooks Great insight about the robots being made by humans and their prejudices - and in this story of course based on Zelu‘s own experience like @ChaoticMissAdventures points out. I hadn‘t thought of that. (edited) 4mo

BarbaraBB @Megabooks Like you I didn‘t read it political either but after reading all the excellent comments of people who did, I am convinced the author did too. Such a great discussion! 4mo

CBee @Chelsea.Poole the Wild Robot book series is excellent, I read it with my oldest son. Highly recommend! 4mo

CBee What I loved most is that despite their differences, they find that they need each other. I didn‘t read it political but wow, what if that could happen in real life? People becoming friends and having civility despite differences! Such a world we live in now 😢 4mo

peanutnine @mcctrish @BarbaraJean to your point about the No Bodies needing Humes to physically repair things, if I understood correctly the No Bodies can inhabit bodies/machines if they wish but choose to flit around without most of the time. So if they had to, they could fix things without Humes' help 4mo

peanutnine I do like Ankara and Ijele's relationship, how they have begun to subconsciously take on the other's way of thinking or acting. I definitely agree that Hume and No Body prejudice against each other hinders potential relationships from the start 4mo

BarbaraJean @peanutnine Oh, absolutely—they could inhabit a body/machine that had the necessary dexterity, etc. if that body‘s consciousness allows for it (or is uninhabited). But I see an irony there. The No Bodies have a prejudice against embodied consciousness, but even if it‘s their own and only temporary, they actually do need embodied consciousness at some point in order to survive. (edited) 4mo

MeganAnn @BarbaraJean yes, I thought that was an interesting irony as well. While there doesn‘t seem to be a similar need for the Humes to leave behind their bodies. 4mo

MeganAnn Excellent discussion here! I also didn‘t read the robots story as political at first, but the more we learn about their existence the more it felt it was very much reflective of human society with many of the same biases & issues. It‘s interesting that Zelu created a robot society that is also filled with prejudice against others. Then puts Ankara & Ijele together where they have no choice but to learn about the other forcing them to empathize. 4mo

39 likes61 comments

Death of the Author: A Novel | Nnedi Okorafor

Last question this week. Hope to see you back next Saturday when we‘ll discuss the whole book! #CampLitsy25

The Lady's Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness: A Memoir

Bookwormjillk This is the most difficult one to answer for me because it comes back to what do our role models owe us. I stopped after chapter 27 yesterday and I can‘t wait to see where the author goes with this. 4mo

mcctrish I understand people wanting to see themselves in celebrities, it gives them validation and hope. But I also see how race/disability can be seen as who you are despite you being more than that - wanting the exos and rejecting being disabled makes sense to me because Zelu is always challenging something, not complacent but nobody likes an angry woman 4mo

AmyG @Bookwormjillk I thought this too about role models…and the expectations people have of their role models. I think people tend to have very high expectations of their role models…they tend to out themon a pedestal. And the more famous Zelu became, the more she was known and I feel the higher the expectation. Does she owe her fans? I think it would be how much does she feel she owes them. (edited) 4mo

See All 70 Comments

AmyG The first part of the question….yes, rejecting the identity of a person with disabilities, but being able to “live” or imagine herself (?) with no disability. 4mo

Reggie I used to work at a restaurant where this woman named Sandy was a regular. She was in her 60s. She was in a wheelchair and divorced. Her husband who was also a regular would show up with his gf, a young 20 something Brazilian with a baby that wasn‘t his. The point is Sandy showed up because she had a van fitted with controls that she was able to use. She had a door that would pop open and a crane that would swing around from the side so she could 4mo

Reggie jump in, swing back, drag a wheelchair out, plop herself in it, put away the crane, shut all the doors and roll herself inside for breakfast. All of us servers were always so impressed. It drove me nuts to read that these people were always trying to clip Zelu‘s wings. I don‘t think she owed anybody anything. (edited) 4mo

Jas16 I can see her thinking she was rejecting this role that never felt true to her and the boundaries and expectations others thrust upon her but I just don‘t see it that way. I agree with others who have talked about those we idolize and feeling betrayed when they act in ways we don‘t agree with. Her fans were trying to force her into another box and not let her choose her own path, (edited) 4mo

TrishB I don‘t think anyone ever sets out to be a role model. I mean it‘s a terrible situation. You can‘t do anything because other people have decided to put you on a pedestal. Like fame, it must be terrible. Like @Reggie says, people trying to clip people‘s wings. 4mo

ImperfectCJ My teen and I were talking yesterday about how strange it is that we seem to hold our heroes to a higher standard than our villains. This, to me, is part of the trouble with holding people up as role models. We (the general "we") expect perfection (and a specific brand of perfection), even though perfection is impossible. There's this kind of purity standard, and if someone doesn't meet it, everything they say is tossed out. 4mo

ImperfectCJ So no, I don't believe Zelu owes her fans anything, but cause and effect still stand, and that means they're going to treat her like crap whether it's right or not. 4mo

JamieArc I saw this coming from the get go and really wish Zelu would have seen this coming too and had been prepared to respond. She doesn‘t owe anyone anything, but it does feel like a tricky question to explore - what it does to advance acceptance and normalizing something when you are rejecting that identity, but it is up to each individual to choose for themselves what they need and want for their own lives. 4mo

ImperfectCJ Also, I wonder if this "gotcha" reveal of her apparent hypocrisy gives her fans an excuse to vent their pre-existing biases about disability (or race or gender) and feel morally righteous doing it? 4mo

ImperfectCJ Why is everything necessarily an "identity" anyway? Why does her disability define her in the first place? Can't people be an amalgam of everything that they are without one of those things being their "identity"? 4mo

julesG Zelu says she's rejecting disability, but in my opinion she's actually just differently disabled. Her legs still don't work, she's just using a different method to be mobile. And this method, just like the self-driving cars, gives her more independence. She can experience more of life without having to ask for help at every corner. Her fans and family should accept that. She doesn't owe anyone, she doesn't have to be stuck in a wheelchair. 4mo

vonnie862 This is tricky...Like many of you, I don't think she owes anyone anything. Unfortunately, when you're in the spotlight, people are going to look up to you. Zelu was obviously unprepared for this. She is so angry inside that she will not allow herself that comprise of who she is to the public. 4mo

julesG @ImperfectCJ Right!!! Her disability is just part of her life, not the defining feature of her personality. 4mo

julesG Nobody would raise an eyebrow at some famous person suddenly using glasses instead of contacts (or the other way round), but exos instead of a wheelchair is a big deal? 4mo

TrishB Agree totally @julesG 4mo

Megabooks @Reggie My mom has had several different iterations of those type of things. She used one more like you're describing in the 90s, but as her post-polio has gotten worse, she's had more adaptive equipment. RN we have vans with ramps, and she drives into the back. Until about 2 years ago, she could transfer to a chair rotating chair in the driver's seat or for longer trips to a chair or bed in the back for dad to drive. 4mo

Megabooks @Reggie About 2 years ago, she lost a lot of mobility/strength in her shoulders and can't drive anymore, but she still uses these vans to get around with me driving. She has still never given up, though. She does most of her ADLs on her own and is one tough lady (at 80 this year)! 4mo

Ruthiella I don‘t really understand anyone‘s opposition to using the Exos. They are no different than the wheelchair in that they are a tool. My mother can walk, but for longer periods uses a wheelchair. This isn‘t like in the Deaf community, where an entire culture has grown up around signing and deafness. I do see more a potential issue with using Exos to make a super powerful human weapon , however. Maybe that will come up later. 4mo

Megabooks @Jas16 That's a really good point that the “role“ of disabled person never seemed true to her. She never placed on herself the limits that others seemed to want to. I was rooting for her when she went against everyone and forged this alliance with Hugo and his grad students. 4mo

Megabooks @julesG 🙌 🙌 🙌 love this interpretation! 4mo

Megabooks @ImperfectCJ Maybe another question coming about identity next week... And it's a good point that it reveals her fans' biases about her, too. 4mo

Lesliereadsalot If everybody, family and fans, would‘ve stopped looking at Zelu as disabled, she would‘ve stopped seeing herself that way. She didn‘t want to see herself that way but was constantly reminded that she was disabled by everyone. The only one she owes anything is to herself, to live her best life. Don‘t we all try to do that? (edited) 4mo

jenniferw88 I 💯 agree with @Reggie and @julesG. It's apparent from the start that Zelu 'beats to a different drum' to all the other characters, and she doesn't owe anyone anything, especially her family! 4mo

squirrelbrain Love that! ❤️ @julesG 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @ImperfectCJ “purity standard“ is the perfect phrase for what “We“ set as a standard for celebrities we feel we love or are like us. Great term. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @julesG I agree. She isn't “cured“ she is using another tool to help her be mobile. I think it gets tricky with celebrities' when it is this totally outlandishly costing thing that is not accessible to the general public. I think that also creates backlash. She got this extremely rare opportunity others cannot get and now she is more mobile but she is still disabled, while claiming to reject her disability which can be hard for the community 4mo

mcctrish @Ruthiella I don‘t understand either. she gets grief for using them, she gets praise for trying technology but grief for covering them up and ‘passing‘ as able bodied - is that a dig at people of colour ‘passing‘ as white? Is the problem Zelu isn‘t staying in her ‘lane‘? Seems so 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @Ruthiella I was sort of seeing the opposition to it as new technology that is unknown and mostly untested. This thing could in theory control where Z goes. She thinks she is in control, but is she really? AI is a scary unknown. I also think there may be a bit of jealousy in the idea that she has this tech that is not available to others, mixed with her rejection of the disabled community - some could see her attitude as her being above them. 4mo

DebinHawaii @julesG Well said! I agree about her being differently disabled & that she doesn‘t owe anyone. 4mo

Well-ReadNeck This reminded me of the deaf community as well @Ruthiella There is also an element of privilege in the opposition here because the technology is expensive and not university available. So much here and I see how it could feel very similar to the sign language/cochlear implant issues. And, I think in so many things, social media exacerbates the there are sides/pick a side thinking for so many things. Breast feeding, plastic surgery, etc 4mo

BarbaraBB So many insightful comments, I really love Camp for this. To add my musings, I think the author wants us to be discomfortable while watching Zelu struggle with being seen vs. being known, being admired vs. being understood, and free vs. being responsible (edited) 4mo

GatheringBooks Love reading all the thoughtful comments here and the anecdote shared by @Reggie specifically. I was entertained reading the book especially with the permeating “cancel culture” that we now have with so-called fallen idols, particularly with authors. The inherent responsibility that comes with fame signifies the sense of ownership fans have towards their “idols” who need to be strongly grounded enough to ignore socmed & regard them as white noise. 4mo

willaful @ChaoticMissAdventures yes, exactly this. And it puts even more emphasis on the “fix“ being with the disabled person themselves instead of the society that makes things hard or impossible for them.

I think maybe she does owe people something. She owes the people who fought for accessibility that she's benefited from. Not acknowledging her privilege and disassociating from them is a slap in the face. 4mo

Christine Many great comments here about these complex and thorny issues! So true that Zelu‘s impairment has not gone away, yet this assistive tech is having a impact on not only her mobility but also her identity, and she has the right to identify or not identify with the disabled community as much as she wants. But for those who do hold that identity strongly, feeling hurt by her choices (esp. given her access privilege) is also totally understandable. 4mo

BarbaraJean I struggle with the idea of what she “owes” her fans. They certainly don‘t have the right to dictate what she decides to do with her own body. But I also think public figures have a responsibility to consider how their actions affect those who look up to them. She doesn‘t owe them being a role model—but her fame means people will see her that way whether she wants them to or not. Perhaps the responsibility includes offering ⬇ 4mo

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) …her own thinking and reasons for her actions, framing it as personal to her rather than universal for all with disabilities. But then again, I don‘t think she owes anyone an explanation, and inevitably people would mischaracterize anything she might say, so… 4mo

BarbaraJean @julesG @ImperfectCJ @Christine The identity part is hard for me to sort through. I wonder about the embrace of disability as an identity, because that seems to place a negative moral value on tools that mitigate the disability (i.e. tools are bad because they change or reject the identity). Zelu‘s exos are an accommodation to a world that privileges walking as the standard for movement. So I can see the anger from those ⬇ 4mo

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) …who embrace disability as an identity, in saying: we shouldn‘t have to change ourselves drastically in order to move in and be included in the world. And I agree with that to a point. But also: if the tech is there and available to you, why not choose something that can make you more independent and your life easier? I get the privilege aspect, but isn‘t she part of the research that could make this more widely available? 4mo

BookwormAHN This pissed me off. If she had the ability to walk again why would she not take it. I don't think she owes anyone anything. I wasn't so sure that her getting them was privileged. It seemed to me she was both a trial participant and an advertisement for them. 4mo

julesG @BarbaraJean yes, she's part of the research. It might have been better to be pro-active and post it on her socials, but that might have caused backlash too. It's a situation where whatever Zelu does someone feels offended. 4mo

Megabooks @julesG I love what you're saying here. She's still tied to an assistive device, but this time, it is one of her choosing. @ruthiella has a good point, too, about them being another tool for her. A tool that does grant her additional independence.

4mo

Megabooks @Lesliereadsalot I think it's more than just how people see you, though. I have not had a healthy day in my entire adult life. I know that. Unlike Zelu, sometimes mine is visible and sometimes it is not, but I always know. It is another thing about me but not my whole identity. I think she was chafing against it being seen by others as more fundamental to her identity than she thought it was. (edited) 4mo

Megabooks @Well-ReadNeck @chaoticmissadventures I think her family and Msizi are definitely afraid for the untested aspect of it. 4mo

Megabooks @BarbaraJean It is such a fine line for me saying whether she owes the explanation. It must be frustrating for public figures to have to constantly explain their thoughts to a wide audience. I would hate it. I know I would absolutely hate it. So I empathize with her not feeling like she should have to. 4mo

Lesliereadsalot Definitely see your point of view. Everyone saw her disability first and she never wanted it to define her. I‘m so sorry you haven‘t had one healthy day and I‘m so glad to get to know you a little through camp 🩷 4mo

Butterfinger Oh, this was a quandary to me. I agree with Zelu to a point. Her fans are the ones who ensure the lifestyle. Without the fans sharing the book, she may not have been chosen from MIT. Was it @ChaoticMissAdventures who mentioned the reaction from the population of disabled - not everyone will have the same resources- which then starts the thought process of today's poor health coverage. Shouldn't Zelu be encouraging more for this? 4mo

Butterfinger @julesG so true. @Ruthiella this thought also came to me - if one of my well-liked actors had a condition that could be "fixed," I would hope I would be happy, but we all know media with celebrities will set up an interview just to start something. 4mo

BarbaraJean @Megabooks Definitely. I would hate having to explain my actions to a bunch of people who don't know me or understand me--and inevitably being misunderstood anyway. The optimist in me feels like if she were just able to explain, then people would get it. But we all know that's not how it would go down! She's going to be judged harshly either way. 4mo

Megabooks @Lesliereadsalot Thank you! I've been better and worse at times. It just seems like every time I sort of fix something, another part becomes broken. I truly related to the book I'll tag. I think a cascade of problems happens to a lot of women. I was in a bad car accident as a teen and my hypermobile joints made it difficult to see what was wrong. I saw 23 doctors in about 2.5 years before I found one that helped.

(edited) 4mo

Megabooks @Lesliereadsalot The latest is some long haul Covid problems that I've just now found some treatments for that work. I hope that it's made me a more understanding person of what other people may have going on that you can't see. I'm glad to have gotten to know you here, too. 💜 4mo

Lesliereadsalot When I had breast cancer I did not want anyone to know. I was not going to be known as that woman with cancer. I‘m really not a private person but in this case I kept it to myself as long as I could. I admire you for hanging in there all these years and looking for a doctor who could help you. I‘m the world‘s biggest optimist!! 4mo

BarbaraBB Yess @julesG you nailed it! 4mo

BarbaraBB @megabooks @Reggie @jenniferw88 Thanks for sharing those experiences. They show us people are so much more than what others might expect based at first glances and prejudices. 4mo

CBee I don‘t think she owes anyone anything. It‘s her body and she should be able to decide what to do with it. Unfortunately, her fans feel otherwise and call her ableist….. which I just don‘t see. 4mo

Megabooks @CBee It's really interesting. I've followed this plus-size fashion influencer for years on insta. I like her style and sense of humor. She's decided to pursue weight loss surgery and is getting a lot of push back from followers. For me, it's her body and her decision. I don't feel she should have to justify it by saying, “I'm having trouble cleaning myself. I can't sit in seats in theaters“ (but she does). It's her body and her life. 4mo

CBee @Megabooks plus, she could have health issues that might improve if she lost weight. Who knows? What matters is that she is in control of her body and she chooses what to do with it - like Zelu. 4mo

peanutnine Love this whole discussion, everyone made great points. I agree that the exos are just another tool for Zelu and she is still disabled. I don't think she owes anyone an explanation because it is her body and her life, however because she is so concerned about what others think of her, I think she should have made a statement explaining her choice so at least some might understand. She's gonna get backlash either way but calmly releasing it on her 4mo

peanutnine terms would have been better than getting surprised and goaded into anger on television 4mo

Megabooks @CBee Yes, and I think that's why people shouldn't have to justify health-based decisions to anyone. Not only in the realm of reproductive freedom. I've also always found it strange that there doesn't need to be a medical justification to increase the size of someone's breasts but there does have to be a medical indication or counseling to remove them. That has always struck me as so bizarre and entirely tied to the male gaze. 4mo

CBee @Megabooks agreed! I had a friend in high school who needed a breast reduction for her health - she had horrible back issues, and she was only a teenager! But, insurance didn‘t cover it then - which is ridiculous. I don‘t know if it does now but as with all health insurance, it seems you have to justify everything to get help. 4mo

TEArificbooks I don‘t think she owes her fans an explanation or to maintain being some sort of disability pride advocate role model. The exos are merely a tool to help her mobility and independence in a world that doesn‘t accurately accommodate disability. But lashing out in that particular moment will drastically affect her life. She could get canceled and maybe lose her book deal etc. And she will have more financial problems and have to move back home etc 4mo

TEArificbooks As a member of the disabled community with mobility issues, I would jump at the chance to use the exos. When you are disabled, your family is also disabled. Your family is restricted to what you are able to do. There is so much you can‘t do so they don‘t get to do it either. Using tools to make life easier doesn‘t make you less disabled and you can still have disability pride. 4mo

TEArificbooks When a person has a physical disability there is a mental game they have to overcome every day. One is the constant guilt of holding your family back and not becoming the person you wanted to be. The exos are tools that can help not just independence and mobility but alleviate some of that mental labor as well. Now she can go anywhere and join her family and her family is freer as well from restrictions. Of course she would grab at the chance. 4mo

Megabooks @TEArificbooks I get what you‘re saying from the perspective of being the daughter of a person with mobility issues. It has been such a dance between us to make sure the other one is included. When I was a kid my mom fell twice at the ice rink (just in the building) then she began trading with parents taking me there and taking their kids other places. She always wanted to make sure I could be in the activities I wanted. 1/ 4mo

Megabooks @TEArificbooks as an adult, I would never live in an apartment she couldn‘t get in (no stairs no upper floors) or in a city it was hard for her to visit (like an airplane ride away). Now, she‘s 80 and lives with me. She‘s so f**king tough. The post-polio and its effects have gotten so painful she asks for a new body. I wish I could get that for her. She would take help like that in a second. (edited) 4mo

CBee @TEArificbooks just wanted to pop in and say that I love your comments - thank you ♥️ 4mo

CBee @Megabooks your sweet mom. I‘m so sorry that she‘s struggling. She is so very lucky to have an amazing daughter like you ♥️ 4mo

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SPIN: Greatest Hits: 25 Years of Heretics, Heroes, and the New Rock 'n' Roll | SPIN Magazine

Last minute #bookspin list!

TheAromaofBooks

Megabooks 7. Changes to “On Earth As It Is on Television” 👍🏻 4mo

TheAromaofBooks Woohoo!! 4mo

Megabooks Looks like I'll have to tackle a longer book this month!! Plus Time of the Flies. Thanks @thearomaofbooks 💜 4mo

TheAromaofBooks Yay!! Enjoy!! 4mo

57 likes4 comments

Untitled | Unknown

This is a helpful infographic from rackfu over on Reddit if you are trying to decide on which to subscribe to. I‘ll post their analysis in the comments.

These are choices from Jan 23 to July 25. Aardvark puts multiple genres on many books, so that accounts for the slightly skewed numbers.

What do y'all think about this?

Megabooks Analysis: “BotM is focused more on general fiction, romance, and thrillers with a heavy emphasis on female authors (7-1) and characters. They have more of the big name authors (the ones you find on the bestseller charts) and books you find in Target and airport bookstores. In general, their books are focused on more or less realistic day to day life with the exception of their thrillers which are obviously unlikely to happen, but could possibly. 4mo

Megabooks cont “It's a generalization, but their books are “safer“ reads in the sense that they often stick to genres and themes that have wide appeal.

Aardvark is more focused on fiction leaning towards the unrealistic and weird, with a much greater selection of science fiction, fantasy, and horror (plus magical realism and gothic fiction). Many of their romance and thriller books are set in the future or in other worlds. (edited) 4mo

Megabooks cont “They don't skew as heavy towards female authors as BotM does, but it's still female dominated (4-1). It also felt like they had more books with LGTBQIA+ tags. I feel like they have more “diamonds“ but you're likely to also find a few titles that are not your thing. 4mo

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Megabooks last “If you're like me and like finding new books that you might not come across in mainstream media, Aardvark is a great choice. If you prefer to stay with books in your comfort zone, BotM might be more for you.“ 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I stopped BOTM cold when they got called out for not including diverse authors, and they started deleting comments about it on their socials. To me it became bigger than just do they support women authors, it became about all all the authors white and straight? I have been doing A for about 3 months now and am so much happier with the selections. During pride month 4/6 were Queer. Vs 1/6 for BOTM (not touching the Frey aspect of June BOTM) 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures 2/2 During AAPI month it was worse. BOTM had no AAPI authors at all, while Aa had 4/6 of their books from Asian or Pacific Islanders. I also think that the quality of the Aa books is far better than the quality of BOTM, and they do not make their logo so obnoxious. 4mo

Megabooks @ChaoticMissAdventures BOTM is very white for sure and deeply not tuned into being inclusive at all. It seems to me at least 1/3 of books in a month should celebrate any diversity initiative. There are too many good BIPOC, disabled, queer, etc. authors (not to mention debuts) not to include more. 4mo

ChaoticMissAdventures @Megabooks for sure, it is so easy if they wanted to try. Last months pick of James Fry sealed it for me. The man is known for fabrication and plagiarizing works. Oprah has to do a whole special to apologize! 4mo

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Hot Girls with Balls: A Novel | Benedict Nguyen

These two weird-ass queer books from @AardvarkBookClub can‘t get here fast enough!! 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈 #aardvark

JamieArc I got Hot Girls too. So intriguing! 4mo

vlwelser House of Beth was fab. I had zero expectations. I think you'll find it very interesting. It's different. 4mo

Megabooks @JamieArc and I‘m really enjoying satire atm! 4mo

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Megabooks @vlwelser yay! I‘m excited! 4mo

vlwelser That other title is very clever. I love it. 4mo

Matilda Loved Hot Girls with Balls 4mo

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Maggie; or, A Man and a Woman Walk Into a Bar | Katie Yee

My #botm choices! I thought about skipping, but the comparisons to Offill sold me on Maggie. The Compound looks fun, and I thought I‘d give Paradise a shot, too.

ChaoticMissAdventures I just finished Maggie last night and I am so excited to see it is an option, cannot wait to see what others think. I still need to post my review. 4mo

Megabooks @ChaoticMissAdventures It sounded really unique and quite out of the wheelhouse in more recent BOTM choices. Kind of takes me back to when they chose Chemistry and Goodbye Vitamin! 4mo

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Death of the Author: A Novel | Nnedi Okorafor

Hi campers! It‘s your heat-intolerant counselor living in Kentucky! I hoped to post this earlier, but going out in the afternoon heat was brutal.

The chapter break for the July 5 discussion is the start of chapter 28 page 212 in my US hardcover. On July 12, we will discuss the second half/whole book!

Be sure to bring your bug spray and sunscreen. I‘ll provide the s‘mores! 🏕️🍫 #CampLitsy25

Megabooks @Addison_Reads @AmyG @amiable @BarbaraJean @Bkclubcare @BooksandCoffee4me @Bookbuyingaddict @booknaround @BookwormAHN @Bookwormjillk @Butterfinger @Cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 4mo

Megabooks @catgusmax @cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @Cseydel @Cuilin @Dabbe @Daisey @Debinhawaii @Deblovestoread @DGRachel @ErikasMindfulshelf 4mo

Megabooks @flaneurette @fredthemoose @Gatheringbooks @gissy @Graciouswarriorprincess @Hooked_on_books @ImperfectCJ
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Megabooks @JamieArc @Jas16 @Jenniferw88 @JenP @Jenreadsalot @Jess @Jhod @JoyBlue @JulesG @julieclair @KarenUK 4mo

Megabooks @karisa @Kitta @Kristy-K @Kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lesliereadsalot @maggie4483 @maich @Mcctrish @MeganAnn @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @Monalyisha @Oryx 4mo

Megabooks @peaknit @peanutnine @Prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @Read4Life @RaeLovesToRead @reggie @rockpools @Roary47 @Ruthiella @Sace @Sapphire @Sarahbarnes @Soubhiville 4mo

Megabooks @skygoddess1 @Suet624 @Susanita @texreader @TheBookHippie @Thekidupstairs @Triplem80 @TrishB @Vonnie862 @Well-ReadNeck @willaful @youneverarrived @zuhkeeyah
4mo

Ruthiella I didn‘t love a previous book by Okorafor but I‘m definitely interested in trying her again. 🤞 4mo

BarbaraBB Yay! I enjoyed this one a lot and am looking forward to discussing it! I just emailed you in reply to your and Helen‘s suggestions! 4mo

Roary47 I‘m having trouble finding this one. 😭 4mo

squirrelbrain Exciting! Looking forward to it! 4mo

Lesliereadsalot This one was so good! Looking forward to discussion ⛺️🔥🍫 4mo

Bookwormjillk Yay! I‘m going to try this one on audio. 4mo

Caroline2 Yay! So excited to start this one!! 👏 4mo

Chelsea.Poole Totally out of my wheelhouse but I just started it and I‘m super into it! Can‘t wait to see where this goes and really looking forward to the discussion. Thanks for hosting Meg! 4mo

RaeLovesToRead Please send iced coffee 😵😵😵 it is an emergency!!! I feel you with the heat intolerance 4mo

mcctrish I‘m ready to go and drinking cold brew in solidarity 4mo

DGRachel I‘ve had the audiobook waiting for me for months. Looking forward to this one! 4mo

AmyG All set. I liked this one. 4mo

Meshell1313 Can‘t wait! 4mo

GatheringBooks Enjoyed reading this. Thank you for organizing camp! 🏕️ looking forward to our discussions! 🥰 4mo

JamieArc Glad to see the positive reviews! I had mixed hopes about this one, but am looking forward to starting it! 4mo

Megabooks @Ruthiella I hope you like it! It's very different than the other one I've read by her, and this one worked better. 4mo

Megabooks @BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain Thank you both so much for your excellent suggestions! I just emailed you back. 4mo

Megabooks @Roary47 Oh no!! I hope you're able to find it in time! 4mo

Megabooks @Lesliereadsalot I agree! I was so happy when it was chosen because I think it's a great one for discussion! 4mo

Megabooks @Bookwormjillk Oh fantastic! Let us know what you think. 4mo

Megabooks @Caroline2 I hope you love it! 4mo

Megabooks @Chelsea.Poole Yes! It's a great SciFi book even for people who don't usually read that genre. I think the discussion will be great! I was really happy when it was chosen. 4mo

Megabooks @RaeLovesToRead @mcctrish I just finished a smoothie with frozen strawberries and cherries, and it was so good! At least it is overcast today here, so it's not as scorching. 4mo

Megabooks @DGRachel Yay!! 🎉 📖 🎧 4mo

Megabooks @AmyG Me too! Looking forward to the discussion. 4mo

Megabooks @Meshell1313 Same! 4mo

Megabooks @GatheringBooks So glad you liked it! You're welcome. We look forward to it every summer, too! 4mo

Megabooks @JamieArc I really enjoyed it both times I read it, and I hope you do, too! 4mo

Well-ReadNeck 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 4mo

julieclair Still waiting for my library hold to come in, and it‘s not looking promising. At this rate, I may be camping in Winter. 😕 But it‘s nice to know the discussions will be here for me to read and comment whenever I‘m able to read it. 4mo

sarahbarnes Thanks, Meg! I‘m going to skip this one as it isn‘t speaking to me, but I‘m already loving Woodworking and looking forward to that one later this month! 😀 4mo

Megabooks @julieclair Boo! I hope you enjoy reading the discussions later, but I'm also keeping my fingers crossed for a camp miracle! (edited) 4mo

Megabooks @sarahbarnes We'll see you during the second half of the month then! Every book isn't for every reader. 4mo

vonnie862 I'm highly enjoying this book. 4mo

rockpools I don‘t suppose you listened to any audio of this did you @megabooks? Looks like my print library hold will arrive just as the discussions are finishing, so I‘m contemplating plan b! 4mo

Megabooks @vonnie862 awesome!! 4mo

Megabooks @rockpools I did not, unfortunately. I had a print copy from aardvark. I looked, and it does have multiple narrators, which I think would be necessary for this book, so it‘s probably worth trying out if you can!! 4mo

rockpools @Megabooks Thanks Meg! It does require a bit more concentration at chapter changes than I usually give my audiobooks, but I think it‘s going to work ok. 4mo

Megabooks @rockpools Great! Glad you'll be able to join us! 4mo

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Murder in the Dollhouse: The Jennifer Dulos Story | Rich Cohen

Some exciting library holds! I‘m really enjoying this audiobook, too! (It‘s tagged.)

My TBR is way too long and exciting!! 😂😂

sarahbarnes Same - I can‘t get to all the books I‘m excited about fast enough! 😂 5mo

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BookSpinBingo | Untitled

Happy Pride Month to all the other queer Littens and allies!! 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

I‘ve started the month off with Stag Dance, and I‘m hoping to get several more queer books in. 🤞🏻 that #bookspin lands on some, too!

TheAromaofBooks

Julsmarshall Love the list and the image! 💙❤️💚💜🖤💛 5mo

AmyG Happy Pride! 🌈 5mo

AmyG And I am curious about Stag Dance so let us know what you think. 5mo

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sarahbarnes Happy Pride! 🏳️‍🌈 5mo

TheAromaofBooks Woohoo!! 5mo

Megabooks @Julsmarshall thanks!! 💚🤍🩶🖤🩷💜💙 5mo

Megabooks @amyg it‘s been really good so far!! I‘m through the first two short stories and into the title novella, which kind of surprised me to be historical fiction set at a logging camp. 5mo

AmyG I have read good things so happy to read you are enjoying it. 5mo

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Starving Saints | Caitlin Starling

Another fantastic month of choices from @AardvarkBookClub !! I was so disappointed that #botm didn‘t offer much in the way of choices for Pride Month, but #aardvark delivered with 3 options!! So excited for all of these!!

Also, I just finished last month‘s choice Immaculate Conception and gave it 5⭐️ if you‘re looking for another book. It‘s still available. Lots to think about re: friendship, art, jealousy, technology, ethics. Just really great!!

Immaculate Conception: A Novel

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BarbaraBB This will be my next read!

Disappoint Me: From the author of BELLIES

5mo

sarahbarnes I‘m intrigued by Disappoint Me! 5mo

ChaoticMissAdventures I read Disappointed Me and absolutely loved it! Dinan is my favorite new author and I cannot wait to see what she does next. 5mo

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Next to Heaven | James Frey

What is Litsy thinking about liar and admitted AI user James Frey being a #botm choice? TBH, the subject matter seems a bit lame, too. Swinging has been done at least since The Ice Storm. This sort of sounds like a rip off.

https://www.centrepompidou.fr/en/pompidou-plus/magazine/article/james-frey-i-use...

CBee Weird coincidence - just finished She‘s Come Undone (a reread) which was an Oprah pick. I read Frey‘s book too and thought it was powerful - felt pretty betrayed TBH when that whole scandal happened. Saw his name on BOTM and was surprised, but who knows? I guess everyone deserves a second chance 🤷‍♀️ Will be interested to see what folks think of his new book. 5mo

AmyG I am curious about this book, too. But I won‘t buy it or any of his books. I, too, felt a bit betrayed by him. 5mo

mollyrotondo I am definitely annoyed that BOTM picked this because if the original scandal wasn‘t enough, he has in recent years exploited MFA writers for his own profit and stated he uses AI to write his books. BOTM always promoted writers and debut authors so to highlight this guy is a far departure from what I thought they stood for. 5mo

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Deblovestoread Was shocked it was on there and I‘m not at all interested in getting it. I hope there is a collective ignoring that sends a message to BOTM. 5mo

BarbaraBB Isn‘t he the one who lied before? 5mo

Suet624 Seriously disappointing. 5mo

marleed I‘m skipping this one. I read A million little pieces before the controversy. It was meaningful to me and even learning much was fictionalized the impact of my actual read remained. I also think publishers at that time were equally if not more responsible for marketing a new author work as a full-out memoir and then the unanticipated Oprah attention blew the marketing out of control. …That said, I‘ve had no interest in reading him since 5mo

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King of Ashes | S. A. Cosby

My #botm choices this month! I was on the fence about A Family Matter, but then I saw @squirrelbrain ‘s review and picked it up.

King of Ashes is our awesome #CampLitsy25 August pick, and Other Side sounded like a nice light summer read.

BarbaraBB

Prairiegirl_reading The Other Side of Now is on my maybe list. I‘m curious what you‘ll think. 5mo

JamieArc I was going back and forth about this one and decided to wait. I wish I had seen her review first though! Perhaps it will go in my box next month. 5mo

squirrelbrain I do like to be helpful! 🤣 5mo

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Megabooks @squirrelbrain you are my dear friend!! 💜😁 5mo

Megabooks @JamieArc hopefully it stays in stock!! 5mo

Megabooks @Prairiegirl_reading sometime MR works for me but sometimes not…we‘ll see! 5mo

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King of Ashes | S. A. Cosby

FYI #BOTM peeps! Our August #CampLitsy25 choice, King of Ashes, looks to be a June BOTM pick! I think I‘ll cancel my preorder and get it here. Hope you‘ll join us then!

JamieArc Thanks for sharing! It‘s the one book I don‘t have. 5mo

squirrelbrain That‘s exciting for US Littens! 🎉 5mo

BarbaraBB That‘s great news for the US Littens indeed. And that timing 👌🏽 5mo

vlwelser That vampire book is excellent. In case you needed an extra 500+ page book... 5mo

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When the Moon Hits Your Eye

Audition | Katie Kitamura

Weekend book thoughts!

Audition, our first #CampLitsy25 book, finished it yesterday. I‘m not sure I “liked” it, but it is going to be killer for discussion!! I can‘t wait to hear @squirrelbrain ‘s thoughts on questions!

Goddess Complex. Started it this morning doing the inevitable Saturday morning jobs (laundry, shopping, blah), and I‘m loving it. Kind of a bit millennial lost in her 30s, divorcing when everyone else is ⬇️

BarbaraBB

Megabooks settling down. And there is the extra added dimension of being Indian-American with a perfect-to-their-parents sister. Is it the most original book? No. Is it good? So far yes imo. ⬇️

Goddess Complex: A Novel

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Megabooks The new Scalzi! Been waiting seemingly forever for it from the library. Came in yesterday…only had time for 15 pages so far this morning. 🤦🏻‍♀️ Hope everyone has a great weekend!

5mo

BarbaraBB Hi Meg! Great reading! I don‘t know Scalzi but now I have kind of fomo 😀 5mo

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squirrelbrain I just sent you the questions, probably at the same time as you made this post! 😊 5mo

AmyG Have a good weekend. Agree on Auditions. I can‘t wait to discuss it. 5mo

Eggbeater I loved the moon made of cheese. That Scalzi book made me so happy! 5mo

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