Welcome to Litsy!

BarbaraBB @Addison_Reads @Amiable @AmyG @BarbaraJean @batsy @bennettBookworm @Bkclubcare @Bklover @Bookbuyingaddict @BookNAround @Bookwormjillk 4w

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

#CampLitsy24

Thank you for voting. Our June winner is, not surprisingly, Clear with 36 votes against 11 for Butter.

@Megabooks takes over from here, keep an eye on her thread! She‘ll be our camp counselor for James and All Fours, so we‘re in for a treat!

Let us know if you don‘t want to be tagged for Camp!

squirrelbrain

BarbaraBB @BookWrym @cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM @Catlass007 @CatMS @Cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @CogsOfEncouragement @CSeydel 4w

BarbaraBB @Cuilin @Cupcake12 @dabbe @Daisey @DebinHawaii @Deblovestoread @decalino @DGRachel @elizamarie @ErikasMindfulShelf @Flaneurette @GatheringBooks @Gissy 4w

See All 29 Comments

BarbaraBB @Graciouswarriorprincess @hes7 @Hooked_on_Books @ImperfectCJ @IndoorDame @JamieArc @jas16 @jenniferw88 @JenReadsAlot @Jess @jhod @jlhammar @JoyBlue @julesG 4w

BarbaraBB @julieclair @Julsmarshall @KarenUK @karisa @Karisimo @KateReadsYA @Kimberlone @Kitta @Kristy_K @kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse 4w

BarbaraBB @Lizpixie @maggie4483 @mcctrish @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @MicheleinPhilly @monalyisha @Nessavamusic @Oryx @peaKnit @prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper 4w

BarbaraBB @quietjenn @RaeLovesToRead @Read4life @Readerann @RebelReader @Roary47 @rockpools @Ruthiella @SamAnne @Sapphire @sarahbarnes @sblbooks 4w

BarbaraBB @Soubhiville @Suet624 @Susanita @TEArificbooks @Texreader @TheAromaofBooks @TheBookHippie @TheKidUpstairs @TrishB @well-readneck @willaful @youneverarrived @yourfavouritemixtape @Zuhkeeyah 4w

TheBookHippie This truly was a lovely read. 4w

squirrelbrain Hooray - I‘m glad this won! ❤️ 4w

TrishB Thank you for hosting ❤️ 4w

Deblovestoread Yay! Thanks for hosting! 4w

Megabooks Yay!! Thanks for a fantastic June, B!!! 4w

Hooked_on_books Thanks for being our June counselor! 🏕️ 4w

Bookwormjillk Thank you 😊 4w

IndoorDame It‘s such an exciting lineup for camp this year, but I don‘t seem to be managing my life well enough to get to any of it. You can take me off the tag list. Thanks ❤️ 4w

DGRachel Yay! Thanks for hosting! 4w

monalyisha I‘m hoping to read All Fours! 4w

Meshell1313 Thanks for hosting June! ❤️🎉 4w

JenReadsAlot Thanks for hosting June!! 4w

BarbaraBB @IndoorDame We‘re sorry to hear that but don‘t want to add stress with our many posts and tempting books! Take care ❤️❤️ @Megabooks @squirrelbrain 4w

Megabooks @IndoorDame I understand completely. I have chronic illnesses, too, and they really can frustrate your life. Take care of yourself as best you can. 💜💜 4w

IndoorDame @Megabooks thank you 🙏💜 4w

CBee Thanks for hosting June, @BarbaraBB 🥰 (edited) 4w

dabbe Thank you so much, @BarbaraBB! 💙💚💙 4w

squirrelbrain Sorry to hear that @IndoorDame - sending love.❤️ 4w

youneverarrived I think I missed the voting but I would have gone for Clear (although I really liked Butter too). Thanks for hosting, the discussions have been fab 🩷 (edited) 4w

BarbaraBB @Deblovestoread @TrishB @Hooked_on_books @Bookwormjillk @DGRachel @Meshell1313 @JenReadsAlot @CBee @dabbe @youneverarrived You know I couldn‘t have done it without @Megabooks and @squirrelbrain , both so sharp and erudite! Looking forward to two more months of Camp! 😘 4w

jenniferw88 I missed voting, too, but I would have gone for Clear - DNF'd Butter after the first chapter! 4w

75 likes29 comments

Readerann

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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I‘m perpetually late to the party, but I was happy this was a quick read for #CampLitsy24. I agree with so many comments here that I don‘t feel I can add anything unique. I enjoyed it quite a lot, but didn‘t find it “amazing”.

Ruthiella You are fashionably late! 🤩 4w

BarbaraBB Happy you were able to read it. The discussion was great, you can stop by for some interesting insights! 4w

21 likes2 comments

Texreader

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

I‘m giving away this brand new book! I listened to the library audiobook instead of cracking open the book. I was not a fan of this book and happy to give it to someone who loved it. Let me know by end of today (Sunday June 30) if you want to put your name in the hat. US only as I intend to send by book mail.

Erinreadsthebooks I would like my name in the hat, please 🙋‍♀️😃 4w

Texreader @Erinreadsthebooks Looks like you totally scored!! Please send me your mailing at my email address: kamonsen at aol.com 4w

Erinreadsthebooks @Texreader Awesome! Thank you. This has made my day! 4w

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Texreader @Erinreadsthebooks 😃 Don‘t forget to email me your mailing address 4w

Erinreadsthebooks @Texreader I emailed this morning. Maybe it went to junk or I mistyped your email address? 4w

Texreader @Erinreadsthebooks It was in my junk email! I‘ve got it now. Thanks!! 4w

39 likes6 comments

DebinHawaii

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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#ReadAway2024

Catching up on my June reviews, I finished a couple of weeks ago for #CampLitsy24 & really enjoyed it. It wasn‘t on my radar or a book I‘d have picked up on my own so I‘m glad it was a camp pick. Story, setting & the lovely writing & language came together in not that many pages. A quiet little book about love & relationships & it just kind of seeped its way into my soul. An enthusiastic pick for me & big thanks to our camp hosts.

Megabooks, DieAReader, Andrew65, squirrelbrain, BarbaraBB, GHABI4ROSES

squirrelbrain Glad you found a fabulous book that wasn‘t even on your radar! ❤️ 4w

BarbaraBB I love it to come across books that I normally wouldn‘t read and that I end up loving! 4w

DebinHawaii Forgot that this was a June #Roll100 pick for me (#66 any library book) too. @PuddleJumper 4w

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DebinHawaii @squirrelbrain @BarbaraBB Yes! It‘s the best! 🤗 4w

PuddleJumper 🎉🎉 4w

DieAReader 🥳🥳🥳 4w

65 likes6 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

@DebinHawaii #5JoysFriday
1. Reading Clear, it was so gloomy and cozy 📖
2. Arizona skies 💜
3. Watching Ponyo for the first time 🐠
4. My dog Clove following me out of the house to take a ride in the truck while we go grab dessert. 🐶
5. We went on a mini vacation for my husband's job.🌴
I tag @BooksNBowls 💛
(There's always a positive that can come from a negative if you look hard enough)

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Beautiful family ❤️ 1mo

KateReadsYA @Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Thank you 🙂 1mo

dabbe #cuteclove 🖤🐾🖤 1mo

DebinHawaii What a wonderful list of joys & great photos!💛💛💛 That sunset 🌅 is so pretty! Thanks for joining in & spreading the joy! 🤗 4w

41 likes4 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

3.5 ⭐️

51 likes

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

This was a perfect pick to bring on vacation. So far I am loving how cozy the descriptions are and how slow paced life is for Ivar. 🐄🐎🐑

60 likes

youneverarrived

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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I loved this. I wasn‘t sure that audio was the right format at first but after a while I really got immersed in it & found myself slowing down while listening on my walks to match the tone of the book 😆 it evokes a strong sense of place and is atmospheric which I love. Another review describes it well by noting it has a ‘quiet intensity‘ 🖤 #camplitsy

squirrelbrain Glad you liked it! 1mo

BarbaraBB Such a wonderful review. Time slowing down while reading. And yes I loved the book too. 1mo

50 likes2 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

Going on vacation today! Bringing the tagged book since I'm behind for #camplitsy

julesG Enjoy your vacation! 1mo

Ruthiella Have fun! 1mo

TieDyeDude 🧳✈ Safe travels! 1mo

dabbe Have a blast! 💚💙💚 1mo

BarbaraBB Enjoy 🩵 1mo

49 likes5 comments

Gleefulreader

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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I read this a few weeks ago as part of #camplitsy24 but then was unable to take part in the discussion. I found this book very thoughtful and a beautiful exploration on the themes of loneliness and connection, love and understanding. I‘ve seen a lot of people compare it to The Colony because the similar settings but feel that the two books are actually quite different. I really enjoyed this and will be purchasing a hard copy.

BarbaraBB I am glad you loved it too! 1mo

Megabooks Glad you enjoyed it! 1mo

19 likes2 comments

Kimbono

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

Currently reading while I get the gray out. 😄

21 likes

Kazzie

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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Wow! So so good. Beautiful and haunting and sad and romantic. The love amongst people prevails.

6 likes

Caryl

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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I loved many things about this book: learning fascinating words from Ivar‘s language which helped me understand the island‘s landscape, following John Ferguson as he fell gently into Ivar‘s life, and cheering Mary on as she continuously surprised and delighted me.

Thanks to #CampLitsy24 for the great discussions, and to @BarbaraBB @Megabooks and @squirrelbrain for being awesome camp counselors!

BarbaraBB Discussion was great indeed, thanks to all awesome campers! 🤍 1mo

squirrelbrain Lovely review! 1mo

35 likes2 comments

kspenmoll

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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In awe of this book, the author‘s spare & lyrical language that conveys bonds of many sorts: to land, to sea, to animals, to humans. A tribute to the human spirit, its ability to endure, adapt, renew, to hope.
I don‘t know what more I can add to the countless reviews by fellow Littens. Just a HUGE thank you to #camplitsy24 for introducing me to this book.

dabbe Lovely review. 💚💙💚 1mo

squirrelbrain Beautiful review! ❤️❤️❤️ 1mo

57 likes2 comments

Roary47

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

so-so

3✨I really enjoyed the peace I felt while reading this book. Ivar has been alone on a remote island for a long time, and John is a husband who is trying to provide for his bride. Loosely based on two historical events in Scotland that I wasn‘t aware happened, but now have a little background in. Read for #CampLitsy @squirrelbrain @BarbaraBB @Megabooks A little late, but glad I read it with everyone.

Megabooks It was a peaceful book. Glad you joined us! 1mo

squirrelbrain Definitely a peaceful book. 1mo

24 likes2 comments

CarolynM

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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This is an extraordinarily atmospheric book. The writing was unobtrusive but incredibly effective -I felt the primness of the place and time, the harshness of the weather, the rugged emptiness of the landscape, the rough expanse of the sea and the claustrophobic interiors. The story was simple but engaging and offered plenty to think about. Thanks to the #CampLitsy24 hosts and participants for the discussions which added to my enjoyment.

squirrelbrain Fabulous review - glad you enjoyed it so much! 1mo

BarbaraBB So glad you enjoyed it. We‘ve had a good start camping! 1mo

Megabooks Love this review! Glad to have you at camp. 🏕️😃🫶🏻 1mo

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dabbe Lovely review. 💚💙💚 1mo

Centique What a great review - very keen to get to this one 😍 1mo

youneverarrived Fab review! 1mo

Rissreads I‘ve never heard of this one! 1mo

Suet624 Great review. This book is so good. 3w

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HeatherBookNerd

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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This brief novel is a lovely story about the ways that people connect, discover, and communicate. It is 1840 and a minister is sent by a landowner to an island off Scotland to evict the last remaining resident. The minister and the islander meet in a surprising way and a unique bond is formed, despite language and cultural barriers.

42 likes

CBee

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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I just loved this. Such a balm for the soul, and the ending was a nice surprise ♥️ #camplitsy24 @BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain @Megabooks

BarbaraBB A balm for the soul 🤍 1mo

Megabooks Yes!! 1mo

CBee @BarbaraBB sometimes you just need a quiet book like this one. I also love when the setting becomes its own character! 1mo

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CBee @Megabooks ♥️♥️ 1mo

squirrelbrain Such a lovely review! 1mo

AmyG For me, the quiet ones are the best. Everything does not need to be spelled out. And yes…the setting. I had this setting puctured perfectly in my head. 1mo

BarbaraBB Yes that is quite special about this book 1mo

CBee @squirrelbrain thank you! 1mo

CBee @AmyG I agree! 📚 👯‍♀️♥️ 1mo

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ChaoticMissAdventures

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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Pick, but I didn't love this as much as others seem to. 3.5⭐

I enjoyed the space writing, and the characters. I am really glad we did this for #CampListy24 the discussions (though I was late to them due to family obligations) were very well thought out and made me sit with the book more than I would have on my own. I loved that the island itself felt like a character, and Mary was my favorite. I liked how language - nonverbal and verbal 👇

ChaoticMissAdventures Played such a large part of the story while Davies used language itself so sparingly. 1mo

ChaoticMissAdventures Overall though I thought this was fine but it didn't have the same impact on me as it did for others in the chat. I read a lot of quiet books and this reminds me of The Wren The Wren where I am pretty sure I might not think about it again anytime soon 1mo

40 likes2 comments

monalyisha

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

Fellow Campers (#CampLitsy24):

Please imagine that I played this song for you, beautifully, on my acoustic guitar around the campfire while the stars twinkled above us. It‘s one of my favorite rainy day songs…and it fits the story perfectly!

https://open.spotify.com/track/2DGSdO00NzACW56iJ2FjNm?si=-K-E0RmKSB2u0IdunGt2IA

*This is an exercise in imagination due to our scattered geography AND my utter lack of musical talent. 😅

kspenmoll Thank you thank you for this musical experience. 1mo

monalyisha You‘re welcome, @kspenmoll! 🩶 1mo

Meshell1313 Yes!!! Perfect soundtrack for this atmospheric novel! 1mo

43 likes3 comments

monalyisha

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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A short, queer, atmospheric novel set in 1843 during the Great Disruption in the Scottish Church & the Clearances, when rural inhabitants in the Highlands & Islands were forced by wealthy landlords to leave their homes.

The title is fitting; it‘s a quiet but powerful exploration of what is clearly important in life (& how that‘s conveyed) and what‘s a little more foggy & nuanced (eg. sexuality, morality, spirituality, multiple intelligences).👇🏻

monalyisha 1/1: What makes this book so poignant is the gray area - literally (in terms of the setting) and metaphorically. Absolutely everything in Davies‘ tale is in transition. (edited) 1mo

monalyisha Thanks, #CampLitsy24 for putting this book on my radar! And thanks to @BarbaraBB for leading the discussions. 🩵 1mo

Suet624 Great review! 1mo

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BarbaraBB Very well said 🩶 1mo

squirrelbrain Great review! ❤️ 1mo

sarahbarnes Great review! 1mo

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dabbe

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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What stunned me most about this book was Davies' writing. So much was said with so few words--which simulates what happened in this novel. Ivar, a man living in solitude for years on a remote Scottish island, meets John, the hired minister who's going to tell him he has to leave due to the Highland Clearances. Both learn to communicate in sparse language and discover companionship in one another. Davies' sparse prose captures ⬇️

dabbe the lush and isolated landscape as well as the need for human connection. I will carry this story with me for a while.

A great start to #CampLitsy. Thank you, @megabooks, @squirrelbrain, and @barbarabb, for organizing this and being our indomitable leaders. 💙 1mo

squirrelbrain You‘re welcome. ☺️ Fabulous review! 1mo

dabbe @squirrelbrain 🤩 1mo

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sarahbarnes Agreed! Great review. 1mo

Caryl Beautiful review of a beautiful story! 1mo

kspenmoll Wonderful review- I had similar responses to the novel. Just discussed it with a friend today 1mo

AmyG I loved this, too. Beautiful book. 1mo

monalyisha Excellent point about the book‘s brevity and how it echoes both the sparseness and lushness of the language(s) John & Ivar use to communicate! 1mo

Daisey Wonderful review! 1mo

BarbaraBB So well said. Great review 1mo

dabbe @sarahbarnes 🤩 1mo

dabbe @Caryl 🤩 1mo

dabbe @kspenmoll 🤩 1mo

dabbe @AmyG 🤩 1mo

dabbe @monalyisha 🤩 1mo

dabbe @Daisey 🤩 1mo

dabbe @BarbaraBB 🤩 And thank you for your thought-provoking questions; they helped me pen this. 💙💚💙 1mo

BarbaraBB Thank you. The discussion always adds so much to the reading experience! And those questions were a team effort, thanks to @squirrelbrain and @Megabooks 🤍 1mo

Megabooks Wow! What a review! So glad to have you at camp. @BarbaraBB is right. We‘re a team each week, and I‘m proud to be a counselor with such fantastic people! @squirrelbrain 1mo

dabbe @BarbaraBB 🤩 1mo

dabbe @Megabooks 🤩🤗😀 1mo

69 likes21 comments

MicheleinPhilly

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

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Utterly lovely, quietly devastating. #ProcrastinatorsDoItBetter #CampLitsy

squirrelbrain Love the hashtag! 🤣 1mo

CBee I beat you - finished it tonight 😂😂😂 1mo

Suet624 So good. 3w

56 likes2 stack adds3 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

Question 3 of 3

With our third question we‘ve finished the Clear discussion. We hope you‘ll be back next week to discuss the first half of a completely different book: Butter.
Until then, enjoy the beach and the sun and your books and this lovely space to spend time together: #CampLitsy24

BarbaraBB @Addison_Reads @AmyG @BarbaraJean @batsy @bennettBookworm @Bkclubcare @Bklover @Bookbuyingaddict @BookNAround @Bookwormjillk @cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 1mo

BarbaraBB @Catlass007 @CatMS @Cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @Cseydel @Cuilin @Cupcake12 @dabbe @DebinHawaii @Deblovestoread @Graciouswarriorprincess 1mo

BarbaraBB @decalino @DGRachel @elizamarie @ErikasMindfulShelf @Flaneurette @GatheringBooks @Gissy @hes7 1mo

See All 82 Comments

BarbaraBB @Hooked_on_Books @ImperfectCJ @IndoorDame @JamieArc @jas16 @jenniferw88 1mo

BarbaraBB @JenReadsAlot @Jess @jhod @jlhammar @JoyBlue @julesG @julieclair @Julsmarshall @KarenUK @karisa @Karisimo @KateReadsYA @Kimberlone @Kitta @Kristy_K @BookWrym 1mo

BarbaraBB @kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lizpixie @mcctrish @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @MicheleinPhilly @Nessavamusic @Oryx @CogsOfEncouragement 1mo

BarbaraBB @peaKnit @prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @RaeLovesToRead @Read4life @Readerann @RebelReader @Roary47 @rockpools @Ruthiella @SamAnne @Sapphire @sarahbarnes @sblbooks 1mo

Hooked_on_books I LOVED the ending. The fact that Mary simply accepts this love story between John and Ivar and chooses to have all of them together is just beautiful. I felt like the love story was likely to open up to be all three of them, which I tend to think doesn‘t really work, but I‘d like to see it work here. 1mo

Bookwormjillk Like @Hooked_on_books I loved that Mary saw what was happening and accepted it. I feel like the three of them have a shot. 1mo

Deblovestoread The ending was perfect and hopefully they found a place to live and thrive. 1mo

CarolynM It was very abrupt. I‘m not sure that I completely buy Mary‘s acceptance and I can‘t see how John could continue in the Free Church living in a throuple. I think he‘s in for a major attack of conscience, or crisis of faith, once they‘re back in their community. 1mo

BarbaraBB I loved the ending too. I think many people didn‘t though. I‘ve been wondering about John‘s future at the Free Church too @CarolynM (edited) 1mo

Ruthiella Like @CarolynM , I found the end way too pat and unlikely. The whole book is leading up to a betrayal of trust. I would have accepted some relief, but not sex, Mary‘s acceptance, the Wedgwood tea pot AND the pony? 1mo

willaful I also loved the ending. I honestly think it's *brave* to give literary fiction a happy ending! So many people think only tragedy has real meaning. I'm not surprised by Mary's acceptance because I felt that strength of character in her all along but I do wonder about how easily John let everything go, and how well Ivar will cope in a new environment. 1mo

CarolynM @Ruthiella It felt like a modern ending to a story that had been previously very much rooted in a particular moment of the past. 1mo

squirrelbrain I expected a sad / traumatic ending so was pleasantly surprised. I‘m not sure they would be a throuple @CarolynM ( I think Mary would find someone else) but I do agree that John couldn‘t continue on in the Church. 1mo

LeeRHarry I found the ending pretty abrupt but I like that it was left quite open ended. I feel like they all went their separate ways. 1mo

RaeLovesToRead The ending was a curveball after the cheeky misdirection with the gun. I agree with @CarolynM - bit abrupt, felt like a modern ending and a bit contrived. Still made me smile but don't 100% buy it. I'm happy the author took that direction though. 1mo

Jess I really liked the ending. Given the expectation of violence, I was surprised to see where things ended up. 1mo

Susanita It was a surprise! At the same time, Mary had little choice but to accept the situation after how she came to the island. Like others, I‘m curious / concerned about how they will make their way forward. 1mo

Soubhiville I agree the ending was a surprise! I really expected a tragedy. I loved the way the author chose to end it. I hope the three of them found a way to live happily together, but I agree that John isn‘t likely to have continued with the church. IMO that‘s not a bad thing, as it sounds like the “new church” was not going to offer John and Mary any kind of secure and comfortable life. 1mo

AmyG I loved the ending. Mary could either reject what she saw and live alone…or accept it and find a way to go forward. I think Mary loved John plus did not want to go it alone. I am curious which one came into play the most….love or fear. I am a big fan of a book ending that makes the reader think about how the story will continue. 1mo

kspenmoll The ending was a huge surprise to me! I loved it. 1mo

JenReadsAlot I was ready for something terrible to happen so loved the ending. 1mo

DGRachel I‘m with @CarolynM and @Ruthiella with this one. I didn‘t mind the ending at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I disliked it. While I didn‘t need a tragic ending, this one felt too neat, like the author hit her word count and had to wrap things up with a tidy bow. I don‘t buy Mary‘s acceptance, and I agree that John is in for some long sleepless nights because of a crisis of a faith. 1mo

Laughterhp I was listening to this one on audio, so I didn‘t realize we were nearing the end of the book. So I was quite surprised with how abruptly it ended. I agree with what the others said, where I thought it was going to end in violence. 1mo

Chelsea.Poole I‘m typically fine with tragedy/disappointment and prefer realistic any day over a “happy ending”, but I was just thrilled with the way this ended. My mind had planned out such horrible scenarios (and probably more realistic) but to see all three leave together (no one shot!) was just so shocking that I couldn‘t be mad about it. Almost like a twist! Sure, they‘ll have their struggles off the island but hopefully together they‘ll find a way. 1mo

Chelsea.Poole I agree the ending was rather brave of the author as @willaful mentioned above. Literary fiction is so often tragic but the story doesn‘t have to be in order for the work to have merit. Maybe it‘s easier to write tragedies?? 1mo

mcctrish Mary is unconventional so I think she could handle going off on her own ( there was a passage where she was wishing for more intimacy with John so maybe she does find a new person, I hope so.) Ivar is certainly self sufficient so he could live anywhere ( I forget what the expectation was for him off the island) John is the one most likely to struggle 1mo

CogsOfEncouragement It is the mid 1800s and Mary is in her 40s. She is incredibly poor and yet Mary does all she can to get to John because she is so concerned for his safety. Her love and loyalty and bravery are repaid with John's unfaithfulness. I think she's in shock, not acceptance. She just needs off the island right now. They all do. I didn't read this as a HEA. 1mo

Megabooks @Hooked_on_books @Bookwormjillk that‘s a big reason I fell so in love with Mary as a character. Her openness and bravery astounded me! 1mo

Megabooks @CarolynM @BarbaraBB agree that his future as a minister was very uncertain. Could he handle that? Would the church accept him once again? HUGE unknown!! @squirrelbrain (edited) 1mo

Megabooks @RaeLovesToRead yes, contrived and modern but still lovely! 1mo

Megabooks @Laughterhp agree there was definitely foreshadowing that had me expecting violence. 1mo

MicheleinPhilly The ending really bowled me over as my black heart thought “Surely, someone is gonna die.” I didn‘t foresee Ivar leaving willingly. For me it was less about a potential romantic future for any of the parties as it was about Ivar recognizing the joy to be found in connection and intimacy. 1mo

sarahbarnes Agree with many others here that given the books I usually read I definitely expected a tragedy and loved the beautiful twist at the end. It seems like much of John‘s and Mary‘s lives have been unconventional for the time (married later, leaving the church) and now they are bringing Ivar into their lives. I think the book is really a love story to the power of relationship and love. 1mo

JamieArc This was my dream ending, which I thought was impossible, so I was pleasantly surprised by the ending and loved it, particularly when Mary says “Instead of two, we could be three.” 1mo

JamieArc I love the literary idea of palimpsest, the washing away of words on a document to make room for a new story. This book is the best of that. If I were still studying literature, I would write a paper on this. 1mo

JamieArc Lastly, as much as I love how it ended, I can‘t imagine life for them is going to be easy. Thanks for hosting this discussion @BarbaraBB ! We chose a great book to start off #camplitsy24 with! 1mo

Nessavamusic I love the hope the ending has, even if it might not be easy for them, it is hopeful. 1mo

Kitta I honestly didn‘t really consider John‘s future in the church. I kind of assumed he‘d distanced himself from those beliefs after meeting with Ivar and building intimacy with him. We hear less and less mention of the church and I doubt they‘d be able to return to their home with Ivar and the horse. I saw them as sailing for a new land or at least a new part of the country where they would settle as a family. I liked the ending although its unlikely 1mo

Kitta Agreed with many others here that I expected a tragedy though. I thought for sure Mary would be shot at the end or assaulted on the boat or something. I was surprised (in a good way) that it worked out so well. Agreed with @JamieArc that I loved the line “we could be three”. Overall it‘s not a believable ending but it was satisfying and interesting to wonder about their future together. 1mo

TheBookHippie I just finished and still pondering. I don‘t like HEA endings tied up neatly, ever.. but this was also open ended.. is it realistic, possibly.. because of Mary‘s character. I did think it would be a brutal ending. I‘m glad it wasn‘t that. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 1mo

dabbe To me, the book ended on hope: hope that the three could make a life together, hope that society would accept them, hope that it would all work out. But ... I can't help but think of the movie THE GRADUATE--when Hoffman (Benjamin) and Ross (Elaine) are riding away on the bus--both of them thrilled and full of hope--but then their ecstatic smiles turn into neutral expressions as they ponder their future life of uncertainty. 1mo

Meshell1313 I thought for sure Mary was going to drag John‘s butt back to the mainland alone so I was SUpEr surprised by the ending. I hope they live happily ever after as a throuple! I like to think John builds his own church with new modern ideas and Ivar adapts to city life! 1mo

yourfavouritemixtape I also felt like something tragic has to happen and then when it didn‘t I was very relieved. It kind of wouldn‘t have fit. At first I didn‘t really like this very open ending, not knowing what‘s going to happen with the three of them. But the more I thought about it, the more right it felt, to end this story like that. 1mo

Suet624 I love all the responses. I‘m with those who were surprised and delighted by the ending. Actually, I really needed that ending. 1mo

BookWrym I disliked the ending for me this would have been better as a story of an unlikely friendship. Ivar could still live with Mary and John as a friend not a lover. That whole storyline felt out of character, out of time and so unlikely I just couldn‘t get on board with it. The ending didn‘t need to be tragic but it did need to be realistic. 1mo

willaful @RaeLovesToRead cheeky is a good word for it! It annoyed me, but not really. ;-) 1mo

willaful @sarahbarnes well put. 1mo

willaful @Suet624 I know just what you mean! 1mo

GatheringBooks Like @Suet624 i also needed this kind of ending, notwithstanding its supposed lack of credibility. I think more than a happy ending, it was an ambiguous sort of ending. There is no guarantee they will be happy all living together with all that entails, but at least as the song goes, there are three less lonely people in the world - and perhaps that‘s all that matters in the end. Easing the sense of aloneness and sharing one‘s life with others. 1mo

TheKidUpstairs I loved the ending. But I find it interesting that so many describe it as a happy ending, maybe bittersweet, but I didn't really see it as happy. It was, to me, more a sign of Mary's determination to make her life and love work for her. That she would make such a large compromise in order to move forward with John. Like @GatheringBooks mentioned, there really is no guarantee of happiness in this ending... cont'd in next comment 1mo

sarahbarnes @Suet624 ♥️♥️♥️ 1mo

TheKidUpstairs ...cont'd from previous comment... The ending may be a bright moment, but there is difficulty and trouble coming for these three (as some have pointed out, John is likely to face a lot of difficulty from the church). I think the abruptness of the ending allows them to have their moment of promise, without having to promise us that they'll live happily ever after. 1mo

TheKidUpstairs @dabbe what a great comparison! I totally agree. That combination of elation and uncertainty for what comes next. 1mo

Suet624 @TheKidUpstairs I appreciate your idea that the ending allows for their (and our) moment of promise. 1mo

DebinHawaii I missed the discussion last week & I‘m starting with the last question this week.🤷🏻‍♀️ I am with the liked/loved the ending brigade. Thinking one of the three was going to die & wondering which one I would be most “okay” with dying, I was happy with the resolution. I agree that it isn‘t a HEA ending & more bittersweet & foresee struggles ahead for the trio (no church for John) but my heart likes to think they will find some happiness together. 1mo

CarolynM @CogsOfEncouragement Shock, yes, that makes sense to me. @MicheleinPhilly It‘s a story about connection and intimacy so it also makes sense to me to see the ending in that way. @JamieArc I like your idea for a paper! 1mo

monalyisha @TheKidUpstairs I found it bittersweet, or tentatively, delicately hopeful, as well. I‘d love to imagine them as a happy throuple (a la my favorite literary throuple: Lindy West, Ahamefule J. Oluo, & Roya Amirsoleymani). But I know that‘s likely far too optimistic! I think Mary‘s a smart woman with a big heart, & I think she weighed her options. 👇🏻 1mo

monalyisha Mary‘s experience with Alice might have made her more open-minded than others in her position. We have to remember that she calls the situation a “terrible surprise.” While she acknowledges that sometimes, “terrible surprises can lead to great and unanticipated happiness,” it would be irresponsible to ignore that word: “terrible.” 1mo

monalyisha The truly devastating bit for me was that Ivar had to leave his island. It‘s the historical truth (as it was and is in so many places); painful as it was to read, anything else would have rung false. Going in, I knew nothing about The Great Disruption or The Clearances. Im grateful to have come to it in this way! 1mo

monalyisha The more I think about the ending, the more I‘m convinced that it WASN‘T tied up with a bow…and the more I like that. 💝 1mo

willaful @TheKidUpstairs “ I think the abruptness of the ending allows them to have their moment of promise, without having to promise us that they'll live happily ever after. “ Well put. 1mo

willaful @monalyisha Yes, I think finding a way for Ivar not to leave would have been historically impossible, so I'm glad the author found a way to bring him joy anyway. 1mo

Karisa @Laughterhp Exactly what I was going to say! I loved the audiobook—narrator‘s voice was perfect! I also did not expect the sudden, happy ending. It didn‘t seem to match the mood. 1mo

Prairiegirl_reading @BookWrym I agree with you! 1mo

Prairiegirl_reading @Karisa I wish I would have done the audio instead of paper. I kept thinking I wish I could hear these words. I think I would have connected with this book better that way. 1mo

Daisey I don‘t see this as a happy ending. It‘s bittersweet and hopeful, but I also see struggle in the future, especially for John. Mary and Ivar both seem more resilient to me, but I see John facing a major crisis of faith when he gets back to the “real” world. I usually don‘t care for open endings, but somehow this one worked for me. 1mo

CBee I was surprised at the ending, and very relieved! I did get a bit worried for a moment. I doubt it will be easy, and what saddened me was Ivar having to leave the other animals and the only place he‘d ever known as home. But I like to think they‘ll figure it out ♥️ 1mo

dabbe @TheKidUpstairs 💙💚💙 1mo

BarbaraBB @CogsOfEncouragement I think you are right. I agree with @TheKidUpstairs that the ending was bittersweet, they are not facing an easy future in either way. I can‘t imagine Ivar living on the mainland for example. Did he leave his animals behind? I can‘t remember 1mo

Leniverse I found the development between Ivar and John a bit unbelievable. I find Mary's pragmatic acceptance of it more probable than John's. I know that his life was turned upside down, and he had to revise a lot of notions, but to go from "dancing is sinful" to basically proving what dancing leads to and not have a religious freakout seems odd. That bi-awakening came way too easy for the times. 1mo

Leniverse I liked that the ending wasn't sad and horrible. I like to think that they decided to stay in Norway. Found some craggy coastal village where life wouldn't be too alien for Ivar. I've heard this story about how Norwegian (Lutheran) immigrants in the USA in the 1800s were shunned by the strict Calvinist British immigrants because even their ministers liked a spot of dancing and fiddle play. I figure John could change denomination again 😂 1mo

peaKnit I like to imagine that the ending offers a glimpse at a new hope for kindness, acceptance and love. I imagine a platonic threesome mostly. I want it to work. I worry about my fictional friends, the times and reality on a mainland may not be kind to them. 🤞🏻 1mo

peaKnit @Prairiegirl_reading audio might be wonderful to listen to - great suggestion. Worth another go. 1mo

Maggie4483 I think the “Happy Ending“ is an illusion in this one. First and foremost, Ivar is going to really struggle with losing the only home he's ever known, regardless of his new connections. And Mary is clearly not thrilled about the nature of the relationship between John and Ivar. When she talked about the three phases of her life, she said the third with John was the happiest (continued) 1mo

Maggie4483 ...but feared she was about to enter the fourth and FINAL phase if she lost John. I think she's compromising more than she really wants to so that she can keep John, because she fears losing him would kill her. I hope I'm wrong, though. There IS, after all, the matter of Mary's picture that Ivar found and felt such a connection to. It's entirely plausible that the two of them form their own unique connection. 🤞 1mo

BarbaraBB @Maggie4483 That is a very insightful way of thinking. I think you are right and I hope so too, re Ivar and Mary! 1mo

Roary47 I complete agree with @hooked_on_books I liked that Mary was accepting of the bond that Ivar and John had formed. I think that John would do well to continue to help Ivar adjust to his new home, and Ivar could help Mary and John to form a farm so they could be self sustaining and not have to worry about money so much anymore. The dance made them look more like a couple then as just friends, but I really saw their relationship as a friendship. 1mo

Caryl Very interesting answers here! I liked the ending, especially this part, from Mary's perspective: “You never knew in advance if a decision was the right one. All you could do was try to imagine the future and use that to help you make up your mind in a difficult situation, and if you couldn't imagine the future, well, you had to make up your mind anyway.“ (p. 182) And I'm realizing that I don't really need to know what happens next. 1mo

46 likes82 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

Question 2 of 3

We have another birthday to celebrate at Camp: @Rockpools is celebrating! So it‘ll be another busy and festive day at #CampLitsy24!

BarbaraBB @peaKnit @prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @RaeLovesToRead @Read4life @Readerann @RebelReader @Roary47 @rockpools @Ruthiella @SamAnne @Sapphire @sarahbarnes @sblbooks 1mo

BarbaraBB @kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lizpixie @mcctrish @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @MicheleinPhilly @Nessavamusic @Oryx @CogsOfEncouragement 1mo

See All 58 Comments

BarbaraBB @JenReadsAlot @Jess @jhod @jlhammar @JoyBlue @julesG @julieclair @Julsmarshall @KarenUK @karisa @Karisimo @KateReadsYA @Kimberlone @Kitta @Kristy_K @BookWrym 1mo

BarbaraBB @Hooked_on_Books @ImperfectCJ @IndoorDame @JamieArc @jas16 @jenniferw88 1mo

BarbaraBB @decalino @DGRachel @elizamarie @ErikasMindfulShelf @Flaneurette @GatheringBooks @Gissy @hes7 1mo

BarbaraBB @Catlass007 @CatMS @Cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @Cseydel @Cuilin @Cupcake12 @dabbe @DebinHawaii @Deblovestoread @Graciouswarriorprincess 1mo

BarbaraBB @Addison_Reads @AmyG @BarbaraJean @batsy @bennettBookworm @Bkclubcare @Bklover @Bookbuyingaddict @BookNAround @Bookwormjillk @cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 1mo

CarolynM Happy birthday @rockpools 💕 I think Ivar. There is something about his simplicity and innocence and also his self possession that is very appealing to me. 1mo

Hooked_on_books I liked all the characters (of the main 3), but if I had to pick one, I would say Mary. She‘s so steady, clearly loyal, and also open-minded in a way I would not have expected for the era. I can probably also relate to her the most, which draws me to her. (And I tend to be more drawn to women and our stories.) 1mo

Bookwormjillk HBD @rockpools 🎂 I didn‘t have a favorite so maybe the animals or the island itself. Both of the main characters were hiding something pretty significant from each other and I didn‘t love that. Understandable because of the circumstances and language barrier, but it made it hard for me to connect with them. (edited) 1mo

Deblovestoread Hard to choose a favorite. I admired Ivar‘s ability to just live his life but I loved Mary‘s gumption. 1mo

rockpools Thank you @BarbaraBB @CarolynM @Bookwormjillk ☺️. I‘m hoping to catch up and join in tomorrow. 1mo

BarbaraBB I‘m with you @Hooked_on_books and @Deblovestoread although it‘s hard not too love Ivar too! 1mo

willaful @Hooked_on_books I also really liked Mary, perhaps because I could relate the most to her point of view. And I was pleased that she didn't let me down but stayed strong and sensible. 1mo

Ruthiella Happy Birthday to @rockpools ! 🥳 I liked Mary the best- her no nonsense attitude. 1mo

squirrelbrain I agree @CarolynM - I liked Ivar‘s simplicity and also the way he grew throughout the story. 1mo

LeeRHarry I liked Mary the best, pretty gutsy to go heading off to see what had happened to John. 1mo

Jess I have to go with Mary. I love her take charge attitude. 1mo

Soubhiville Happy Birthday @rockpools ! I loved Ivar, because of his contented nature living in solitude and his surprise and depth of feeling first with the portrait of Mary and then developing new feelings with John. 1mo

AmyG Happy Birthday @rockpools 🎂 I felt a connection to Mary, perhaps because I am a woman. I found her and her relationship with John fascinating. I saw her as a woman trying to survive in this world. Women had their own set of challenges back then. 1mo

kspenmoll I do love Mary for all her grit, devotion to her marriage, ability to weather change. But Ivar was my favorite- such a fleshed out character who experienced transformation 1mo

DGRachel Happy Birthday @rockpools! I don‘t have a favorite character. This was the kind of quiet book where no one person really stood out over any others to me. 1mo

JenReadsAlot I have to go with Ivar! 1mo

Laughterhp I don‘t think I had a favorite character. I‘m with @DGRachel where no one really stood out to me over others. 1mo

Chelsea.Poole Happy Birthday @rockpools 🌻 I loved Ivar. He‘s such a singular character. I did appreciate both John and Mary as well but for me, Ivar was the most interesting and just lovable. 1mo

Graciouswarriorprincess Happy birthday @rockpools ! 1mo

mcctrish Happy Birthday @rockpools I‘m with most you, Mary and Ivar were my favourites 1mo

MicheleinPhilly I couldn‘t pick just one as they were all rendered so masterfully. So I‘ll go with Pegi. 😉 1mo

Megabooks Happy birthday @rockpools !! Sending a virtual cake! 🎂 1mo

Megabooks Like many have said, I loved Mary‘s bravery and steadfastness while remaining open to a very unconventional experience. 1mo

sarahbarnes I loved them all, but would probably say Mary, for her independence and unconventional love for John. 1mo

JamieArc I don‘t have a favorite either, but what I loved about each of them is that while they were all very different characters, they each had this ability to accept change in an empathetic way. They were strong, but not stubborn, and could make room for change to come. 1mo

Nessavamusic I liked all of the people, could I choose the island as a character? The environment/setting was such an important part of the book. 1mo

Kitta Agreeing with most people here that I like Mary the best. Sailing off after her husband would be a very unusual thing to do, for a woman alone at that time (I think?). And her acceptance of Ivar as well. @Deblovestoread used the word gumption and I agree! Great word by the way. (edited) 1mo

rockpools @ruthiella @Soubhiville @AmyG @DGRachel @Chelsea.Poole @Graciouswarriorprincess @mctrish Thank you! I really do need to get back to reading more books. I miss you guys! And thanks for the cake @megabooks 😘 1mo

TheBookHippie @AmyG I agree women in that age the choices not too many. I admired her. 1mo

TheBookHippie I liked the atmosphere & the setting the most. If that can be a character. 1mo

dabbe I'm with the ones who chose the setting. Without the isolated setting, there would be no story. For ex., would this story have worked if John lived on the mainland of Scotland? It is the isolation itself that makes Ivar who he is and created the need for communication between John and Mary and himself. It also creates the classic conflict of man vs. nature and then man vs. man and then man vs. society as the three are going to go back to humanity. 1mo

Meshell1313 Happy birthday @rockpools ! Did no one pick John. 🤣 funny how he seems to be the villain in all of this. I also admire Mary the most for her dedication and decision to go and find her husband. She could have just started a new life on the mainland but her loyalty is impressive. 1mo

yourfavouritemixtape I am also with @TheBookHippie the atmosphere was what struck me the most (and also what I will remember for a long time) 1mo

Suet624 @Meshell1313 I was thinking the same thing about John. Funny that no one picked him. I was very impressed with Mary‘s courage and ability to adapt to the possibility of all three being together. (edited) 1mo

BookWrym Happy birthday @rockpools I am joining those who chose the setting. 1mo

GatheringBooks Happy birthday, @rockpools. I will join all the others who mentioned Mary as their favourite. The no-nonsense, casual, intuitive way she sensed how her husband changed with Ivar, how she delicately assessed the situation, and basically took charge through the invitation of where there used to be two, there is now three. More than generosity of spirit, it was also taking charge of her life and knowing exactly what she can live with. Such clarity. 1mo

squirrelbrain Interesting that no-one picked John @Meshell1313 @Suet624 - I don‘t see him as a villain though, just not as interesting, even though everything revolves around him 1mo

Suet624 @squirrelbrain exactly. 1mo

DebinHawaii For me it was also the island which did seem its own character & was so vividly drawn I could see, hear, taste smell & feel it, followed by Ivar. I smiled the most when I read his chapters & liked his joy in simple things. He had great heart that touched mine. Mary is right up there too with her grit & strength. I felt sympathy for John but he didn‘t draw me in as a character nearly as much. 1mo

monalyisha I‘m not sure about favorite character…but favorite scene might be the passage when Ivar quietly speaks with his old blind cow, “telling her what he could see.” Never mind that the gorgeous fact that there‘s a word for “a big dark cloud with a whitish top through which the sun was shining,” but the tenderness that this scene conveys is beyond touching! How heartbreaking that he was forced to leave this relationship behind. 1mo

monalyisha I wouldn‘t choose John as a favorite character but I found his love of language especially endearing. The scene where he breaks down and cries, too, after their dance, and when he takes Mary‘s photo to the hermit‘s cave to speak with her. I think it‘d be difficult to see him as a villain, though it‘s equally perplexing to imagine why everyone seems to be so immediately enamored! His “bony, Presbyterian face” must‘ve cast a VERY strong profile! 😅 1mo

CBee Ivar - even more so after he told his blind cow about what he was seeing ♥️ 1mo

CBee Agree about the island and setting being a character! 1mo

BarbaraBB I agree @sarahbarnes that she was so unconventional and I loved that too about her. And what @JamieArc points out is true as well, that all three of them were willing to accept change, which makes Ivar and John quite unconventional too. (edited) 1mo

jenniferw88 Ivar was probably my favourite. Probably because LGBTQ issues are very close to my heart, I hated Mary and wanted her to die on the boat voyage over so that Ivar and John could have a HEA. It's obvious to me that John now thinks Mary is interfering and ruining the budding friendship (relationship?) with Ivar. (edited) 1mo

peaKnit Ivar was my favorite, he is so simple, gentle and self sufficient. He knits. 🧶 I enjoy Ivar‘s in my real life when possible. They can teach you so much. (edited) 1mo

peaKnit @CBee yes, his care for his animals is so special. 1mo

Maggie4483 It was definitely hard to pick a favorite - there's a lot of kindness in all of them. But Ivar was so sweet and genuine in his simplicity, and I really respect Mary's tenacity. I'd guess that the reason John didn't top anyone's list is because he made Ivar cry - he definitely lost points with me on that one. But then, I sympathized with him and the guilt he clearly felt immediately after, and the steps he took to apologize redeemed him for me. 1mo

Roary47 I would say that my favorite is Ivar. I enjoyed reading his sections the most. I think I like him the most because I didn't have many friends growing up so I would talk to my animals and care for them a lot like he did. 1mo

Caryl I enjoyed reading everyone's answers here! Today, I will choose Mary as my favorite character, mainly because I expected this to be a story just about Ivar and John. The inclusion of Mary's backstory, the decisions she made when she feared for John, and the graceful and loving way she moved into the next part of her story all surprised and delighted me. 1mo

48 likes58 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

#CampLitsy24 question 1 of 3

What a great discussion we‘ve had last week. Thank you all for adding so much to the book by sharing your insights, feelings and thoughts. The second half of Clear is where the action was so lots to discuss again! I‘ll post three questions again.

BarbaraBB @Addison_Reads @AmyG @BarbaraJean @batsy @bennettBookworm @Bkclubcare @Bklover @Bookbuyingaddict @BookNAround @Bookwormjillk @cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 1mo

BarbaraBB @Catlass007 @CatMS @Cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @Cseydel @Cuilin @Cupcake12 @dabbe @DebinHawaii @Deblovestoread @Graciouswarriorprincess 1mo

BarbaraBB @JenReadsAlot @Jess @jhod @jlhammar @JoyBlue @julesG @julieclair @Julsmarshall @KarenUK @karisa @Karisimo @KateReadsYA @Kimberlone @Kitta @Kristy_K @BookWrym 1mo

See All 85 Comments

BarbaraBB @kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lizpixie @mcctrish @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @MicheleinPhilly @Nessavamusic @Oryx @CogsOfEncouragement 1mo

BarbaraBB @peaKnit @prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @RaeLovesToRead @Read4life @Readerann @RebelReader @Roary47 @rockpools @Ruthiella @SamAnne @Sapphire @sarahbarnes @sblbooks 1mo

BarbaraBB @decalino @DGRachel @elizamarie @ErikasMindfulShelf @Flaneurette @GatheringBooks @Gissy @hes7 1mo

BarbaraBB @Hooked_on_Books @ImperfectCJ @IndoorDame @JamieArc @jas16 @jenniferw88 1mo

Hooked_on_books I didn‘t see it as a love letter to language, though I like that read. I felt more that their learning of one another‘s language was a piece of getting to know each other and it fit the place in the sense of being a slower process for a slower way of life. I liked that reflection. 1mo

CarolynM I‘ve literally just finished reading the book so I‘m thinking very hard about that relationship. The forced proximity and isolation must be a big part of it, but communication strengthens connection and because they both had to work so hard on communication by learning each other‘s language I think they would have created a deeper connection than if communication had come easily. 1mo

Deblovestoread I also didn‘t see it as a love letter to language but did feel their connection grow along side their ability to communicate with each other. 1mo

BarbaraBB @Hooked_on_books @CarolynM @Deblovestoread Agreeing with you all. It made them feel more equal I think, both reaching out to understand the other. (edited) 1mo

willaful I think the authors own use of language was... a bit tricksy, manipulative even. I don't really mind because things turned out better than they were being foreshadowed. Everything seemed to be leading to horrible tragedy. 1mo

Ruthiella I see the love letter aspect of it. There is a real thrill when one starts to understand the nuances of a language not their own and appreciate the nuances of their own language which they may have previously taken for granted. Both John and Ivar (and vicariously the reader) get a taste of this in their ad hoc language immersion program. (edited) 1mo

squirrelbrain Interesting thought @willaful - I‘d love to know more about why / how you think the author was being manipulative. 🤔 1mo

willaful @squirrelbrain Among other things, it was strongly suggested that Mary would be shot and killed. 1mo

LeeRHarry I like storylines where language or lack of plays a large part in the narrative - how characters get around not being able to communicate well verbally. 1mo

RaeLovesToRead I don't really agree with the love letter to the power of language statement. I suspect the majority of John and Ivar's communication was non-verbal. The fact that John was enthusiastic about learning was probably helpful to their bond, and the author obviously loved researching it, but I didn't see it as the overarching theme of the book. 1mo

Susanita I can see the love letter aspect in how they both enjoyed going over the word lists as John refined some of the nuanced meanings. He understood that learning another language is about more than vocabulary lists. 1mo

Soubhiville I agree @RaeLovesToRead . I thought it was an interesting part of the story, but not one of the most important parts. I‘d say the author was more excited about rediscovering old language than I was about reading all of the words in Iva‘s tongue. 1mo

AmyG I also agree with @RaeLovestoRead. I think the learning of language to communicate bonded the two. Before the words they both had to rely on “non-words”….body and facial language. Knowledge of that first truly connected them….there was an intimacy there. They could read each other well before John even learned the language. 1mo

kspenmoll @AmyG Yes, agree with all- non- verbal body language began their bond. The words/ meaning John collected satisfied his natural curiosity & love of language/translation. This did interest me but I agree, not a central theme. 1mo

DGRachel As many have said, I don‘t really see the novel as a love letter to language, although I can see a point being made for a reflection of the author‘s love for languages. I think the struggle to communicate and the effort John and Ivar went through to communicate definitely increased the intimacy between the two. 1mo

JenReadsAlot I think their non verbal communication to start understanding each other was powerful. 1mo

Chelsea.Poole @willaful I was bracing myself for that! Something to happen to Mary that is. I was actually delighted that this book ended so happily. 1mo

Chelsea.Poole I can see why a reviewer would point out the emphasis on language in this novel. But I do agree with many who think Ivar and John had a connection regardless. 1mo

mcctrish @willaful I agree that I felt a strong sense of foreboding in the beginning but for John at Ivar‘s hands or both when the ship came back ( Ivar was certainly expendable so tossing John in with him doesn‘t seem a stretch to me as far as Lowrie was concerned) 1mo

mcctrish I think I do agree it‘s a love letter to language - yes Ivar and John can communicate non-verbally but John‘s methodical, list making attempt to understand Ivar‘s language shows intent to learn and document it and Ivar. For John it‘s just his way of understanding and sorting an unknown but for Ivar it‘s being valued, seen and accepted. Language in current times is being used the opposite way. 1mo

peaKnit I think learning one another‘s language showed the curiosity they had in one another, like any two people showing that deep interest in the beginnings of a relationship. Some learn lived experiences and in this case they show that spark through learning to communicate. 1mo

Megabooks @RaeLovesToRead that‘s a great point. I felt the verbal communication between the two happened more quickly than it likely would‘ve irl. @Soubhiville it seemed like a love project in studying that old language. @amyg agree that communication by gesture has an intimacy to it. @kspenmoll I love the curiosity and wonder both showed towards each other. 1mo

Megabooks @peaKnit I think the interpersonal and intellectual curiosity between the two was one of the best parts of the book! 1mo

CogsOfEncouragement I did find it interesting that John brought his work with him when he really should not have brought it to such a place, and it was all washed away. Literally. He then used the same paper to learn Ivar's language. One work of translation was erased and the same paper was used for translation of another language. 1mo

sarahbarnes I agree with what many here have said, in that John and Ivar had a strong nonverbal connection regardless of language. I also agree that it put them on more equal footing for John to try to learn Ivar‘s language @BarbaraBB - it showed vulnerability on John‘s part and a respect for and interest in Ivar (even if initially it was in order to be able to deliver the terrible news). 1mo

JamieArc While I agree about the non-verbal connection, I can see how this is a love letter to language. I feel like it was this interest in language, and the nuances, that deepened their time with one another. But I‘m a language person, and reading the meanings of the words, just how many words there are for different types of most, was fascinating and endeared me to Ivar‘s world. 1mo

JamieArc @CogsOfEncouragement I thought this was interesting too. There‘s a literary word for when this happens: palimpsest. The scraping or washing away of words on a document to make room for other words. I thought about this a lot while reading the story. 1mo

Kitta @JamieArc that‘s a wonderful word! 1mo

Kitta @Megabooks agreed about the pace at which Ivar learned English, it seemed incredibly fast to me as someone trying to learn a second language. It takes a lot of repetition and my brain often feel too full to continue sometimes haha 1mo

Kitta @Megabooks I also read the tagged after this, which includes a woman learning English quickly (though not as quickly as Ivar) which was an interesting juxtaposition. Her grammar was all wrong, but she was understandable quite quickly. I wonder how long it was that he was with Ivar? I can‘t get a sense of the timeline although I know it was mentioned.

A Sweet Sting of Salt: A Novel

(edited) 1mo

TheBookHippie One, survival makes you learn a language more quickly as does being dropped somewhere and you must communicate -so the time it took didn‘t seem off to me as I‘ve seen it and experienced it IRL. My first experience walking beside Pakistani kids who had come from a refuge camp in Afghanistan I switched to Spanish without realizing it I wanted to communicate so badly. Fun fact it was Yiddish they knew besides Farsi 🤯 .. ⬇️ 1mo

TheBookHippie ⬆️ I didn‘t see it as a love letter to language but I see how one would think that. The non verbal and the time spent intimately and what that does/did and the reasoning for them being in that position in the first place and one being of the church was more fascinating to me personally. 1mo

dabbe I saw the term “language“ as being both nonverbal and verbal, a semiosis where ANY form of activity is used to produce meaning to one another. Once John and Ivar moved past just the symbols and signing to one another, then the learning of the actual words began. It reminded me of the ancient cave paintings on the wall as the beginning of understanding one another to the actual forming of words. John and Ivar simulated that same process to me. 1mo

Meshell1313 @CogsOfEncouragement I love this point! His work is still about translation. His important documents didn‘t matter anymore and instead the paper was used to make stronger connections in a place where rules and laws are non existent. 1mo

JamieArc @dabbe Yes, I agree that language here is more than just words. 1mo

dabbe @JamieArc 💚💙💚 1mo

Megabooks @Kitta interesting! I have Sweet Sting on my shelf, and now I want to pick it up soon. I think the timeline was weeks, and I know some people can pick up language quickly, but Ivar, as an adult who had only spoken one language previously, would presumably take a bit more time to master it just from a brain development standpoint. But each of us is unique so who knows! 1mo

Suet624 I saw it as a love letter to love. 1mo

BookWrym @CogsOfEncouragement great insight 1mo

youneverarrived It‘s Naomi‘s birthday today so haven‘t been able to join in but I‘ll catch up when I get the chance 🩵 1mo

BookWrym For me the discovery of language and building communication was the best part of the book. I liked the slow pacing that matched the setting completely. 1mo

willaful @RaeLovesToRead I agree. 1mo

willaful @Chelsea.Poole Oh, I absolutely was too! 1mo

willaful @mcctrish I felt foreboding all around! But it was a little too deliberate around Mary at the end. I don't really mind though. 1mo

GatheringBooks I love how it is framed as a “love letter to language” - it seems apt. Admittedly the glossary at the end with so many terms intimidated me a little bit and i thought it would be cumbersome to read but it wasn‘t. I agree with what @Megabooks says about the intimacy of “communication by gesture”. For me it was the nuance of the language that rendered the sensations evoked immutable and heightened the connection between two lonely people. 1mo

squirrelbrain Great point @RaeLovesToRead and @dabbe about the non-verbal communication! 1mo

squirrelbrain @JamieArc - I love the word palimpsest - thanks for highlighting it in this context! 1mo

dabbe @squirrelbrain 💚💙💚 1mo

DebinHawaii @JamieArc I think palimpsest may be a new favorite word! 💛 Beautiful. I agree that while I didn‘t read it thinking of it as a love letter to language, language both verbal & non-verbal played an important role & helped forge the intimacy. I loved the glossary & all the different words & took pictures of my library e-book. (I may have to buy a copy just for that). I think “nombrastom” (very thick mist) is my favorite. 🤗 1mo

monalyisha @Suet624 I saw it as a love letter to place! I think it‘s fascinating to think about how deeply language is tied to place. What‘s happening to our own language as we so thoroughly lose our connection to place? How does “virtual” place (online) tie into this discussion? 1mo

monalyisha I absolutely agree that the book is a “love letter to the power of language.” However, the word “scorching” has no place in the Scottish Highlands! We learned the words for “a big, heavy, snow-laden cloud”, “a dark cloud in frosty weather”, “a cold northerly wind”, “a cold, keen wind,” etc. “Scorching?!” Get right outta here with that misplaced adjective! 😅 1mo

Suet624 @monalyisha …a love letter to place. Yup! I agree. 1mo

Daisey @CogsOfEncouragement This is a really great point to emphasize about John‘s work with translation. 1mo

Daisey I agree with @monalyisha that it seems to be more a love letter to place. I do see it as expressing love of language, but more in the way of love and value of the uniqueness of each language more than the power of language in general. 1mo

willaful @monalyisha 🤣 1mo

CBee @Chelsea.Poole I was very worried and then, that beautiful ending ♥️♥️ 1mo

Chelsea.Poole @monalyisha great point about the relationship of language and place! 1mo

Chelsea.Poole @CBee my cynical heart was happy. 😊 1mo

CBee @Chelsea.Poole yesssss I understand 100% 😂😂♥️♥️ 1mo

BarbaraBB I love your point @CogsOfEncouragement 1mo

BarbaraBB @youneverarrived congrats on Naomi 🩵 1mo

BarbaraBB @Soubhiville Yes to your remark about the author being more interested in learning an old language than we! 1mo

BarbaraBB @TheBookHippie I can see how that‘d work. A beautiful example 💖 1mo

BarbaraBB @willaful The foreboding was everywhere indeed. The power of language 😀 1mo

Maggie4483 I'm late to the party, but I have to agree with @willaful - while part of me appreciated the happy(ish) ending, the false foreshadowing made it feel very anti-climatic.
And I think the author intended it to be a love letter to language, especially after reading the author's note. But while that may be the seed the story grew from, I think it evolved into something else. 1mo

Roary47 I'm with you @maggie4483 in being a little late. Everyone made excellent points. I think it is a love letter of language as many of you noted the author really had a passion in bringing this old language back into light through this book. There is something powerful in communication. My mother is extremely hard of hearing and because she cannot hear verbally she feels isolated and often angry. As John learned Ivar's words Ivar seemed happier. 1mo

Roary47 @willaful I too felt cheated (even though I liked that it was a happy ending) that nothing extreme happened to the characters. However, I also feel after reading the authors note that the loss of Ivar's home because he was being forced to leave, and leaving the poor blind animal to fend for itself was really depressing as I likely would have felt if a character died. 1mo

BarbaraBB @Roary47 That comparison is quite fitting indeed. My mother is hard of hearing too and feels the same. I can very much see how feeling ‘heard‘ makes Ivar happy. 1mo

BarbaraBB @Roary47 In the end the ending wasn‘t as happy as it seemed I think. I loved that about the book and what the author did! 1mo

youneverarrived To learn each other‘s language was a form of mutual respect I think. It helped their relationship form beyond gestures etc. so I feel like it was an important part of their relationship. It did feel to me like a love letter to language - I listened to it on audible so maybe that made it more prominent. 1mo

Caryl @youneverarrived - Good point about showing their mutual respect for each other by learning each other's words. The audiobook just came in for me from my library, so I think I'll listen/reread it. I'd love to hear how the words are pronounced. 1mo

Caryl @CogsOfEncouragement and @JamieArc - I didn't catch onto the beautiful significance of John losing his translation work, and then using those pages to work with Ivar's words and his language learning. Thank you for mentioning that, and the word “palimpsest,“ which is the name of this graphic memoir I loved and was my first encounter with this beautiful word.

Palimpsest: Documents from a Korean Adoption

1mo

Caryl @monalyisha - All of Ivar's words that John was learning definitely helped me understand the setting. I loved that about this book. And I was puzzled by the use of “scorching“ as well -- misplaced adjective, indeed! 😄 1mo

BarbaraJean I'm so late to this discussion! But I wanted to respond to @monalyisha's questions on language & place—I also find this fascinating. I think as we lose a connection to place, we lose the specificity of language we see here: the sheer volume of words for clouds, mist, wind, and sea! We gain more universality in language, but we lose depth/shades of meaning. We also lose the connections that can be built as we try to understand another‘s language ⬇ 4w

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) …as with Ivar & John. I don‘t think they‘d have built the same connection if they‘d already had a common language. I think it‘s also fascinating to note that our discussion is in a virtual space—and taking place in English although English isn‘t everyone‘s first language. We touched on this a little in the first week‘s discussion with the different shades of meaning between solitude and loneliness. There‘s a measure of translation ⬇ 4w

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) …going on in our discussion, but in some ways, all language is translation—we are translating our experiences and thoughts into language in order to be understood, in order to forge connections with each other. And in translation, context (culture, place, etc.) really matters! John honors that with Ivar and it enhances their communication and their connection. 4w

44 likes85 comments

sarahbarnes

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

I loved this #CampLitsy pick. What a beautiful story. Can‘t wait to discuss the second half. 🩵

kspenmoll Me too 🩵💙💛 1mo

squirrelbrain Looking forward to the discussion too! 1mo

BarbaraBB So glad you loved it 1mo

42 likes3 comments

Soubhiville

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

Great choice #CampLitsy! I really liked this. Looking forward to the discussion this weekend.

I have Davies‘ first book, West, on my shelf. Picked it up in a used bookstore in the last couple years. So I‘m moving it onto my #bookspin shelf to read soonish. ☺️

I found the ending a bit surprising. I don‘t want to give anything away, but did others? If you comment use the spoiler button.

Good morning from Venkman 🐈‍⬛🩷.

Soubhiville I was expecting Ivar to refuse to go or John to stay with him, or a death… I was very happy with the way it ended. (Don‘t forget the spoiler button!) 1mo

ElizaMarie I think I am in love with Venkman! 1mo

mcctrish The whole time I was reading I knew something was running beneath the surface but based on my inner demon I was leaning towards slaughter mostly 🤣🤦🏻‍♀️ 1mo

See All 9 Comments

AmyG I did….but yet was not surprised. 1mo

sarahbarnes I loved this one too and now want to read more by her. 1mo

dabbe 🖤🐾🖤 1mo

BarbaraBB Yes that ending! We‘ll discuss it on Saturday! 1mo

Texreader Very surprising! 1mo

Hooked_on_books I was surprised by the ending but absolutely loved it. 1mo

64 likes9 comments

jenniferw88

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

#camplitsy24
#52bookclub24 #handball #summerreadingchallenge #publishedinayearofthedragon
#pop24 #bookwithatleast3povs
#aty24 #relatedtoboatsbeachesbarsballadsorjimmybuffet

Kristy_K, LaraReads, KarenUK, Megabooks, Hooked_on_books, BarkingMadRead, Crazeedi, brittanyreads, Graciouswarriorprincess, Magpiegem, BookBelle84, Larkken, julesG, Deblovestoread, Librarybelle, triplem80, Tove_Reads, slategreyskies, Read4life, Bluebird, kwmg40, squirrelbrain, Kristel, BarbaraBB, eeclayton, hissingpotatoes, Book_Lover95, TheAromaofBooks

Librarybelle I‘m seeing so much love for this one. I think I‘ll have to stack it! (edited) 1mo

Graciouswarriorprincess I posted my review yesterday. So good! 1mo

Megabooks So glad you loved it!! 1mo

squirrelbrain Glad you enjoyed it! 1mo

BarbaraBB Glad you‘re a fan too! 1mo

44 likes1 stack add5 comments

TheKidUpstairs

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

I thought this #CampLitsy24 pick would be my kind of read, and it did not disappoint. A beautiful, quiet story about connection and humanity. In her spare prose, Davies created a richly textured world on this remote windswept island. I can't wait to discuss the second half this weekend with my fellow campers!

59 likes

Graciouswarriorprincess

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

What a lovely story written about three lonely people. The prose is breathtaking and the surprise ending about love is so sincere and heartfelt.

#camplitsy

46 likes

Bookwormjillk

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

I had to listen to the first half of this twice and read the week one #CampLitsy discussion just to figure out what was going on. Then finally the second half clicked and I loved it. Can‘t wait to discuss the ending this weekend! @Megabooks @BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain

Megabooks This is one I would‘ve found challenging on audio, so I‘m glad you stuck with it! See you at camp! 1mo

Bookwormjillk @Megabooks yes there were parts that felt like they went in one ear and out the other 1mo

BarbaraBB I read it in print but the second part went so much faster than the first! 1mo

Roary47 I feel the same way right now. 1mo

squirrelbrain I agree @Megabooks - I think I‘d have found it challenging on audio too. 1mo

68 likes5 comments

TheBookHippie

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

OMG 😳 THANK YOU!!! ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️

There‘s NO NOTE 😫

BarbaraBB This is so wonderful! No need to wait any longer for your library book! 2mo

TheBookHippie @BarbaraBB I‘m so excited! Went to library today- NO HOLDS IN! This is so sweet! 2mo

squirrelbrain Oh, how lovely! ❤️ 2mo

See All 6 Comments

Megabooks Fantastic! Enjoy! 1mo

kspenmoll Christine, I had so many points this was free. I knew you had to read it- just adored this book for a multitude of reasons-❤️ In thanks for all you do on Litsy & in life. (edited) 1mo

TheBookHippie @kspenmoll AWE. Thank you so much!!!! 🩵🩵🩵🩵🩵 1mo

62 likes6 comments

Karisa

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

Just finished the audiobook read by Russ Bain. Fantastic voice, fantastic read set in a time I had not read of before, the Scottish clearances of the 1840s. The three main characters pulled me right in to this distant world. I would have loved even more of Mary and that ending—whoa. It‘ll be a great #CampLitsy discussion!

BarbaraBB I think so too - about the discussion I mean and especially the ending! 2mo

squirrelbrain Looking forward to further discussions next weekend! 2mo

Megabooks Really curious what everyone will say about the ending! 1mo

64 likes3 comments

Deblovestoread

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

I very much enjoyed this short, quiet novel. Ivar, the lone survivor on a small Scottish island, finds an injured stranger, nurses him back to health and eventually learns the reason the stranger is on his island. 4.5 🌟

I look forward to #CampLitsy24 discussion next Saturday. @squirrelbrain @Megabooks @BarbaraBB

squirrelbrain Glad you enjoyed it - we chose well! 😃 (edited) 2mo

Megabooks Yay! Glad you loved it. Good book to start camp! 2mo

BarbaraBB Glad you loved it. I agree it has been a great one to start Camp with. 2mo

73 likes3 comments

kspenmoll

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

#weeklyfavorites

Read4life

Read4life 💙💙💙 2mo

Megabooks It was so good! 1mo

41 likes2 comments

Susanita

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

The weather is delightful today. I‘ve finished my walk, and now I‘m just going to sit on the patio and read until myspouse gets home or I finish the book. #hyygehourreadathon

TheBookHippie, jenniferw88, Chrissyreadit, AllDebooks

Chrissyreadit ☀️💛☀️💛 2mo

34 likes1 comment

Caryl

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

So happy this one finally came in for me at the library! Halfway through, and looking forward to reading the #CampLitsy24 posts about it.

Ruthiella I got a late start on this one too. But it is short and pretty easy to read. 🤞 2mo

Caryl @Ruthiella, glad you're reading it, too! I'm really enjoying it. 😊 2mo

BarbaraBB Thank you for joining the discussion. You raised such insightful points! 2mo

See All 6 Comments

Megabooks Yay!! 🎉🎉 1mo

Caryl @BarbaraBB, thank you for leading this #CampLitsy24 discussion! I just finished reading the book and I‘m looking forward to the questions you post on the 15th. 1mo

BarbaraBB Me too! I‘ll probably post a bit later Saturday, but I will post!! 1mo

37 likes6 comments

Texreader

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

This post contains spoilers

show me

so-so

Poor preacher John Ferguson decides to make some money by helping a landlord evict Ivar from the island he‘s lived on his entire life. When John is shipwrecked and injured, Ivar nurses him back to health and teaches John his language. Meanwhile John‘s wife decides something has gone wrong, sells her wedding ring, and sets out to fetch him. There are many ways this book could have gone and I wasn‘t keen on the direction it took. I also struggled ⬇️

Texreader with the audiobook and the sequence of events being mixed up. Normally it doesn‘t bother me, but sometimes I struggled with the narrator‘s accent causing me to struggle more with the sequence. Once I got used to the narrator, whose accent was lovely even if I didn‘t always understand him, it was fine. Lovely descriptions and Mary was so sweet. I also loved Peggy the horse, the blind cow, and even the sheep. #camplitsy24 @Megabooks @squirrelbrain (edited) 2mo

BarbaraBB I didn‘t mind the sequence of events because it is a rather quiet book that made me read it slowly. So I can indeed imagine the audiobook being not the right medium to read this book. 2mo

13 likes2 comments

Chelsea.Poole

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

pick

I‘m so happy we started off #CampLitsy24 with this novel. I loved the lone inhabitant of a remote island in the Scottish Hebrides, Ivar. Conflict arises when a down on his luck preacher turns up on the island to “clear” it. I loved the symbolism and the setting. 🫖
Language and words make connections.
This felt like a mix of two books I read and loved which I‘ll tag in the comments below. ⬇️

Chelsea.Poole

An Island

2mo

Chelsea.Poole Language, isolated community

The Colony

2mo

Megabooks Great review! 2mo

See All 7 Comments

JamieArc It has me thinking a lot about The Colony as well. 2mo

BarbaraBB I read both too. I don‘t remember much about An Island but I loved The Colony even more than this one! 2mo

squirrelbrain Great picture! It reminded me of both of those books too and, like @BarbaraBB, I adored The Colony. I recently read Whale Fall too, which reminded me even more of The Colony, but not as good. 2mo

Hooked_on_books Your picture is perfect! 2mo

94 likes7 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

Question 3 of 3

Our final question for today. While we‘re enjoying Camp and discussing books, life took over for @batsy and @Suzze and @Suet624 . They are not here for now but know that we‘re thinking of you and sending love!

We‘ll continue next week with the second half (and ending 😉) of Clear!

BarbaraBB @Addison_Reads @AmyG @BarbaraJean @batsy @bennettBookworm @Bkclubcare @Bklover @Bookbuyingaddict @BookNAround @Bookwormjillk @cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 2mo

BarbaraBB @Catlass007 @CatMS @Cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @Cseydel @Cuilin @Cupcake12 @dabbe @DebinHawaii @Deblovestoread @Graciouswarriorprincess 2mo

BarbaraBB @decalino @DGRachel @elizamarie @ErikasMindfulShelf @Flaneurette @GatheringBooks @Gissy @hes7 @Hooked_on_Books @ImperfectCJ @IndoorDame @JamieArc @jas16 @jenniferw88 2mo

See All 60 Comments

BarbaraBB @JenReadsAlot @Jess @jhod @jlhammar @JoyBlue @julesG @julieclair @Julsmarshall @KarenUK @karisa @Karisimo @KateReadsYA @Kimberlone @Kitta @Kristy_K @BookWrym 2mo

BarbaraBB @kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lizpixie @mcctrish @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @MicheleinPhilly @monalyisha @Nessavamusic @Oryx @CogsOfEncouragement 2mo

BarbaraBB @peaKnit @prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @RaeLovesToRead @Read4life @Readerann @RebelReader @Roary47 @rockpools @Ruthiella @SamAnne @Sapphire @sarahbarnes @sblbooks 2mo

Leniverse I wondered at that. I don't think Strachan is the best person to rely on for evaluating other people. He clearly doesn't have a high opinion of labourers, tenants, or women. Ivar strikes me as a simple soul, without necessarily being "simple". I mean, he has survived alone for, was it 12 years? He's clearly capable. 2mo

BarbaraBB It‘s so easy and even predictable for Strachan to say that. But Ivar seems like a sensible person to me, being able to survive all those years yet lacking any intellectual stimulation. (edited) 2mo

Megabooks @Leniverse good point that he‘s a survivor. I think Strachan under appreciates and probably looks down quite a bit on Ivar. Strachan strikes me as only seeing his own best qualities as valuable. 2mo

sarahbarnes I think he‘s less an idiot and more stubborn and not interested in a life away from the island. Sending you love @Suet624 @batsy @Suzze ♥️♥️ (edited) 2mo

JamieArc I was wondering this, if there is some cognitive impairment, but from what we get from Ivar, I don‘t see it. I think he just has a different, simpler way of existing in the world. I agree that Stachan is not who I would rely on for an accurate evaluation of a person. 2mo

Kitta I think the language barrier probably plays a role, along with Ivar preferring a pastoral life, not interested in making money or doing the things Strachan sees as desirable/valuable. Strachan can‘t see the value in this kind of life and therefore assumes Ivar is incapable of functioning in Strachan‘s world. 2mo

TrishB Just because people prefer a different life style, doesn‘t make them idiots. As Leni says he‘s been alone and survived for 12 years! 2mo

Nessavamusic I think it is just that far to often assumptions that different means lesser. Which is only slowly changing in human opinions. 2mo

squirrelbrain @JamieArc - when Strachan first made the comment I thought there may be a cognitive impairment too, but you really don‘t see it. @Leniverse - I agree that Strachan isn‘t the best person to rely on. He struck me as having an over-inflated sense of his own importance, and looks down on nearly everyone. 2mo

Oryx I think he, and many people, see people who live differently as simple, or that they have something wrong with them. 2mo

peaKnit I think Ivar was simple not necessary limited, his lifestyle could certainly stump a more worldly person for sure. But doesn‘t it sound lovely to steal away to an island, maybe just briefly?☺️ 2mo

CogsOfEncouragement I‘ve been waiting to gather more info from John‘s observations on this. I‘ve been holding off on a judgement. 2mo

Jas16 I think the comment tells us more about Strachan than it does Ivar 2mo

CBee My impression of Strachan is that he‘s a small man who looks down on anyone who doesn‘t have his elevated “status.” He‘s a jerk 🤷‍♀️😂 I like Ivar very much! 2mo

peaKnit @Jas16 yes! 2mo

mcctrish I think the only thing Ivar might be is socially awkward due to language and lack of socialization, @CBee @Jas16 @Kitta are all right that the comment says more about Strachan than Ivar 2mo

JenReadsAlot @TrishB exactly! 2mo

Deblovestoread I think Strachan knows very little about Ivar and used the terminology to make the task seem easier to John and if he‘s wrong here‘s a gun just in case. He obviously thinks little of the lower class and what happens to Ivar after is insignificant. 2mo

DGRachel Everyone else has covered this so well - simple doesn‘t equal cognitive impairment. Strachan is a petty man who degrades others to make himself look or feel important and superior. Ivar has different values and since they don‘t revolve around money, Strachan cannot comprehend them. 2mo

Karisa @mcctrish Yes! Agreed. Ivar has a different language, socialization, and priorities to Strachan but it doesn‘t make him less than. @cbee I like him too! He‘s honest, strong, and steady. 2mo

TheKidUpstairs I think Strachan sees a man who lives a different life than himself, and who speaks a doesn't language and equates those things with "simple" and "idiotic" It's like so many colonizers looked at indigenous populations as "barbaric." Ivar doesn't live or speak as Strachan or his contemporaries do, and therefore he must be less than. Ivar does live a simple life, but as many have stated that doesn't mean he is in any way impaired. 2mo

Meshell1313 @peaKnit I totally agree! That‘s my thoughts exactly- someone more “worldly” might look down at Ivar‘s simple life with lack of luxuries! And an island all to myself sounds like paradise! 2mo

squirrelbrain @CBee - definitely a jerk! 🤣 2mo

RaeLovesToRead No. And you have to have incredible survival skills to manage on an island by yourself for so many years. I suspect Strachan has to look down on Ivar, otherwise it wouldn't be as easy to eject him from the land and replace him with sheep. 2mo

RaeLovesToRead @Meshell1313 It's funny you say it sounds like paradise... when I was reading I was thinking how much I l'd hate it... the food, the cold, the lack of amenities... I wouldn't survive a day 🤣 2mo

willaful @RaeLovesToRead @Meshell1313 Yes, I'll take the deserted island with the warm sun and the hidden servants who provide everything you want. 😂 2mo

dabbe @Deblovestoread That's how I saw it, too--as a class issue where Strachan clearly sees himself in a more flattering light and thinks anyone who'd stay alone on an island must be an idiot. Or maybe I'm giving the jerk Strachan too much credit for being able to think at all. 😀 2mo

BookWrym No he doesn‘t come across that way to me he is living and supporting himself with limited resources and he understands the need to care for John. I would say simple in that he lives a simplistic life not that there is any impairment. 2mo

kspenmoll No, agree with you all. He could not survive the way he has if he was an “ idiot” That is a sign of the times to see someone uneducated or living the land as “ less than”- felt he saw his as a beast,non human. 2mo

Karisa Reading through everyone‘s ideas, it‘s making me realize that Ivar and John are both “true believers” in a way. When someone like Strachen doesn‘t share the same blind devotion, it can feel like the other is being idiotic. Ivar‘s devotion is to the place and way of life found there. It feels like he‘s the one actually converting John to his belief in a deep appreciation of this place 2mo

Maggie4483 There was never any point when reading the chapters from Ivan‘s POV where I got the impression that he had any kind of intellectual impairment. But, speaking from personal experience, people tend to underestimate the intelligence of quiet people in general. Add in a language barrier and unconventional way of life, and I can see why someone (especially an elitist like Strachan) would jump to that conclusion. 2mo

BkClubCare @squirrelbrain @Jas16 - Stracken is a jerk! Worse words come to mind, actually. But let‘s look at this from both John‘s impressions/ initial expectations AND what the author wants us as readers to bring to the unfolding! Very clever way to start introducing us to what is really going on here. I, too, thought John would be encountering a simpleton. Shame on me. 2mo

Chelsea.Poole The language barrier undoubtedly played a role in Strachan‘s opinion of Ivar. I‘m he had a little curiosity, unlike John, in learning/translating his language. It‘s much easier (and more asshole-ish) to count someone out as ignorant than to work to get to know them. I‘m sure he has little interest in anyone or anything if it‘s not something lining his pockets. (edited) 2mo

Hooked_on_books @Jas16 Exactly! You nailed it! Strachan is a jackass. His attitude reminds me of how (too) many people think of migrants in our current era. Plus, you can only truly diminish someone into a pawn or worse if you first “other” them. And @Karisa I like your true believers thought. This hasn‘t struck me and it‘s an interesting viewpoint. Though it could be argued that Strachan is a true believer in money. 2mo

Megabooks @Chelsea.Poole yes! 💯💯 2mo

LeeRHarry It‘s that age old I don‘t understand your language, history or the way you live your life, it‘s different so it must be inferior to mine - if Strachan was able to look at himself in the mirror he‘d find that he was the idiot not Ivar. (edited) 2mo

CarolynM @LeeRHarry Yep. 2mo

Karisa @Hooked_on_books That‘s so true! Each of the men believe in something different and that‘s their main focus. What about Mary? She seems to be different/more modern and is important to two of them 2mo

Soubhiville @Jas16 I think you said it perfectly as well. 2mo

squirrelbrain @LeeRHarry - definitely! 2mo

squirrelbrain I love that @Karisa , about them both being true believers - beautiful! 2mo

AmyG Strachan didn‘t understand Ivar as a person…they were completely different. Hence his arrogance and judgemental attitude…he calls him an idiot. Basically Strachan is an assh***. 2mo

Ruthiella Just finished the first half today and am now reading the discussions. Great questions and such thoughtful responses. 😃 2mo

youneverarrived Just echoing what others have said - Strachan is the type of person who is narrow minded and equates worth with ambition, wealth etc and because Ivar lives by different values it‘s too easy for Strachan to dismiss him by saying that about him. 2mo

Caryl Another great question, with lots of great answers here! Strachan is definitely trying to set up John Ferguson's expectations. I'm not sure Strachan really believes what he tells John about Ivar; I think he's the kind of guy who'd be comfortable lying to get what he wants. @BkClubCare -- I love what you said about the author's awareness of what to reveal to readers and when. She's piecing the story together for us beautifully! 2mo

Roary47 You all took the words right out of my mouth. He‘s has a different lifestyle and motivations. That does not mean he‘s unintelligent. 2mo

BarbaraBB @Caryl I hadn‘t thought of that but you‘re right; Strachan could well have been lying 2mo

julieclair Well put, @BookWrym ! 2mo

GatheringBooks Loved reading all these, even if I am exceedingly late to camp. One evidence of Ivar‘s “intelligence” is his capacity to use language to describe the subtlest nature of everyday life, as he taught John the nuances of his language. Such exquisite attention to detail, it‘s borderline poetic! 1mo

BarbaraBB @GatheringBooks That is so true!! 💯 1mo

Bookbuyingaddict @youneverarrived 👏🏻totally agree . 1mo

monalyisha Just saying hi! I‘m here and reading through. I hadn‘t realized how long it‘s been (over a decade) since I‘ve been asked to have a discussion about a book *before* finishing it! I‘ve been in a book club since 2012 but haven‘t been in school in a long while. It feels so immediately uncomfortable to comment on something/anything without having all of the information that‘s provided by the full narrative at my disposal. Having a very meta moment! 😅 1mo

BarbaraBB @monalyisha Tomorrow we‘ll be discussing all of the book 😀 1mo

50 likes60 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

Question 2 of 3

Not sure if you have arrived at Camp yet @Soubhiville but have a wonderful birthday! We‘ll celebrate around the camp fire tonight 🧡

BarbaraBB @peaKnit @prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @RaeLovesToRead @Read4life @Readerann @RebelReader @Roary47 @rockpools @Ruthiella @SamAnne @Sapphire @sarahbarnes @sblbooks 2mo

BarbaraBB @kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lizpixie @mcctrish @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @MicheleinPhilly @monalyisha @Nessavamusic @Oryx @CogsOfEncouragement 2mo

See All 64 Comments

Megabooks Happy birthday @Soubhiville !! Enjoy your day!! 🎉🎉 2mo

BarbaraBB @JenReadsAlot @Jess @jhod @jlhammar @JoyBlue @julesG @julieclair @Julsmarshall @KarenUK @karisa @Karisimo @KateReadsYA @Kimberlone @Kitta @Kristy_K @BookWrym 2mo

BarbaraBB @decalino @DGRachel @elizamarie @ErikasMindfulShelf @Flaneurette @GatheringBooks @Gissy @hes7 @Hooked_on_Books @ImperfectCJ @IndoorDame @JamieArc @jas16 @jenniferw88 2mo

BarbaraBB @Catlass007 @CatMS @Cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @Cseydel @Cuilin @Cupcake12 @dabbe @DebinHawaii @Deblovestoread @Graciouswarriorprincess 2mo

DGRachel Happy Birthday @Soubhiville 🥳 2mo

BarbaraBB @Addison_Reads @AmyG @BarbaraJean @batsy @bennettBookworm @Bkclubcare @Bklover @Bookbuyingaddict @BookNAround @Bookwormjillk @cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 2mo

sarahbarnes Happy Birthday @Soubhiville! I‘ve been thinking about this too. I wonder if it also has something to do with his loneliness. Maybe he expects John to leave like everyone else and he wants to be able to keep the picture so he has someone with him. 2mo

Graciouswarriorprincess Happy birthday @Soubhiville ! 🎉🎂🎈 2mo

Kitta I would guess because he wanted to keep it for himself subconsciously. Or because He doesn‘t want to think about John having a wife. (edited) 2mo

Megabooks Maybe he wants John to live in the present moment with him on the island. Since he was so lonely, maybe he wanted all the attention on himself. 2mo

Leniverse At first he hid the picture because he didn't want to lose his fantasy of her by giving her back to John. But John is there in the flesh, which makes him better company. Ivar is so starved for companionship that the picture, the idea of Mary as someone John has a connection to, becomes a threat. John is all the human company he has, and he wants to be all that John has. 2mo

DGRachel This was odd to me. Doesn‘t he say that he hides her because he doesn‘t want to share her with John, like Mary belongs to him now, and as he gets to know John, he feels like he would lose John‘s attention if he gives the picture back? 2mo

sarahbarnes I think you‘re right @Kitta @Megabooks @Leniverse that he doesn‘t want John to think of her or focus on the picture instead of Ivar. That he wants all of John‘s attention, and perhaps irrationally thinks he can keep him there that way. 2mo

BarbaraBB @sarahbarnes @Kitta @Megabooks @Leniverse I didn‘t think of that at that moment. My simple me thought he never met a woman himself except family and he just wanted one for himself - even though she was just a fantasy. 2mo

JamieArc I also think it‘s about forming a connection that he doesn‘t want to lose and wants to keep to himself. Super interested in seeing where the story goes… 2mo

Nessavamusic Unconscious jealousy perhaps? He has this friend/maybe more and he doesn‘t want to lose him to his life off the island 2mo

TrishB I think he doesn‘t want share- but also maybe that he wants a singular relationship at that point with John and the picture is a distraction 🤷‍♀️ 2mo

Kitta @BarbaraBB while that‘s true, he hasn‘t met many, if any, other women - why hide the cenotaph? He could‘ve deduced that it belonged to John, given how it was found, and I think that the fact that he stopped thinking about it after talking to John suggests at first he didn‘t want to lose it, then he didn‘t want John to find it and remember his old life. Just my thoughts though. 😆 2mo

BarbaraBB @Kitta I think you‘re right. After he met John he became the companion he looked for in Mary and then he didn‘t want to share John with Mary. How human 😀 @TrishB (edited) 2mo

squirrelbrain Happy Birthday @soubhiville! I thought at first that Ivar was attracted to Mary, and didn‘t even realise that she was important to John. But then, it did seem that he was trying to keep her away from John. 2mo

Oryx I think he initially didn't want to share, but then maybe as the relationship with John grew, he didn't want to remind him of another life. Talking about the picture might break the spell. 2mo

BarbaraBB @Oryx Break the spell. I think that‘s exactly it! 2mo

peaKnit @Oryx I agree. At first I thought he wanted to keep Mary to himself but then I realized he didn‘t want John to long to go away and hiding that picture seemed simple for Ivar, out of sight out of mind. 2mo

Karisa It‘s so human to want to keep something that reminds us of others and entertain. Photos must have been such a novelty then and without access to media, I can‘t imagine the solitude! The photo thing made me a little sad for them both and for Mary too. Why wouldn‘t John bring her? She seemed ready for an adventure. 2mo

CBee Don‘t have much to add 😊 Agree with everyone! 2mo

mcctrish I‘m with @CBee and @DGRachel I thought initially the combination of the interesting style of photo and Mary is an attractive woman that Ivar wanted it for himself #prettythings like the teapot, there are no luxuries on the island but also by not showing John ( it wasn‘t really hidden) it doesn‘t fuel John‘s desire to leave 2mo

JenReadsAlot I agree with the comments already made! 2mo

Deblovestoread The novelty of the photo was really interesting. It is easy to assume Ivar had never seen one before and it captivated him immediately. The only thing more captivating was a live person, photo might spoil that so needed to be hidden away. 2mo

Meshell1313 I loved this- jealousy and collecting beautiful things maybe? I saw it as if John is reminded of her he‘ll always be trying to leave and get back to her. Ivar wants John to forget her and stay with him. 2mo

BarbaraBB @mcctrish I love your comparison to the teapot. He wanted to cherish beautiful things and the teapot even made it to the cover of the US edition - it must mean something 🫖 2mo

Megabooks @Oryx great point about not wanting John to remember another life. 2mo

Megabooks @mcctrish I know! That broke my heart how he had to hide any nice thing on the island. He seems to have lost so much. I don‘t think he could bear to lose more. 2mo

RaeLovesToRead I don't think he fully knew why he did it and I think his reasons changed as their relationship developed. 2mo

squirrelbrain @karisa - it made me sad too. I think probably John couldn‘t bring Mary as ‘society‘ would have frowned on it. (Or maybe John himself was too traditional to consider it as Mary seemed to push through societal norms when she decided to go by herself) 2mo

TheKidUpstairs @RaeLovesToRead I totally agree. I think it was a mystery to him. Kind of like the other quote we're discussing, how he didn't know the depth of his solitude until John came, I think he's only starting to explore the reasons for taking and hiding the picture. I think the two are connected. The picture and John are the first two connections he's felt with people since his family passed/left, so a part of himself that he hasn't explored is awakening 2mo

dabbe Could it be too that it was simpler to hide the picture than to try to explain to John (where language is still a barrier) why he kept it in the first place? Maybe he fears John will not understand or be angry with him and that he would then take the picture and leave and Ivar would be left with neither the picture or John in complete solitude again--only now it truly would be a lonely one. 2mo

kspenmoll @mcctrish Agree with you on both counts- so few pretty things in his life & he certainly would not want John to leave- he realizes the woman means something special to John, someone to go back to. 2mo

Maggie4483 Maybe Ivar realizes that he‘s the “third wheel,” that John and Mary have a much stronger bond than he will ever have with either of them, so he is trying to keep them separate. 2mo

BkClubCare Excellent points, I agree. Especially the subconscious jealousy and once hidden, how to explain WHY when language communication is difficult AND I think there is guilt, uncomfortable feelings, and not wanting to confront even within Ivar‘s own self. 2mo

Hooked_on_books I‘m with @mcctrish —well put! I didn‘t get any sense of jealousy or of him trying to keel John and Mary apart. He knows nothing of their relationship other than that she‘s probably special to him (she could be his sister or mother, after all), but for Ivar the photo is a luxury in and of itself. 2mo

Chelsea.Poole Everyone has such great points here! My heart grew like 5 sizes for Ivar when he found that photo of Mary. Can you imagine how that would feel—to see a human face after so many years without seeing another soul?? Even if it‘s not a living, breathing person, just the reminder that others are out there is something to cherish. I think I would hold on to that photo too, in Ivar‘s position. 2mo

Megabooks @Chelsea.Poole that is true that he hadn‘t seen another soul in any way in years. I think that‘s hard to understand in current times. Just in this room, I have all your photos on this thread and Top Chef on the TV. We are saturated in images now!! 2mo

mcctrish @dabbe 💔 2mo

dabbe @mcctrish 💙💚💙 2mo

LeeRHarry Great comments! 😊 I don‘t think I have anything to add. Just that I think that why Ivar hid the photo changed as time went on; from keeping Mary to himself, wanting to keep John to himself and then possible guilt that he had it and had hidden it in the first place. 2mo

CarolynM I think @Leniverse has hit the nail on the head. 2mo

Soubhiville Thanks for the birthday wishes @BarbaraBB ! I spent the day hiking so I‘m just arriving now😁. 2mo

Soubhiville Everyone has said exactly what I thought- at first he felt the picture was the best thing he had, then he begins to feel John is the best thing in his life. 2mo

AmyG I saw him hiding her picture perhaps out of shame. Shame that he had it, not wanting to explain why he had it and didn‘t return it, perhaps shame that he had feelings for a man. 2mo

GatheringBooks Happiest of birthdays, @Soubhiville - sorry for being a day late to camp!!! 2mo

GatheringBooks Love reading all the thoughts here - i agree most with @BarbaraBB with the fantasy bit. I think it was just human nature to want to keep something that brings you life and beauty - light to his drab and lonely existence. 2mo

youneverarrived I thought the same as @dabbe 2mo

Caryl So many great thoughts here! I agree that it's a bit of a mystery, even to Ivar himself. Like @dabbe shared, I think Ivar felt uncomfortable about giving John the photo now, after John's gone through his own things and not found it there. I love how much this photo adds to the story, not only giving us an understanding of the time period and insight into character relationships, but also nudging the narrative to John and Mary's backstory. 2mo

dabbe @youneverarrived 🤩😀🤗 2mo

dabbe @Caryl Love how you worded this, especially this part: “nudging the narrative“. 💚💙💚 2mo

Caryl Thank you, @dabbe 😊 2mo

Roary47 I was thinking along the same lines as @Megabooks where he wants John and himself to live if the present moment. The picture could remind John that he should eventually head back and like @Leniverse said it‘s better to have someone physically there than a picture. Everyone has such great thoughts. I‘m excited to continue reading with you all through camp. 🥰 2mo

julieclair Excellent thoughts! 2mo

Bookbuyingaddict @Chelsea.Poole totally agree ☺️and beautifully said . He almost became mesmerised by the photo - I wondered if Mary was the only other woman he‘d ever seen not his grandmother , mother or sister . All excellent comments 🙂 @BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain 1mo

squirrelbrain Good point @Bookbuyingaddict that he‘d maybe never seen another woman other than family. 1mo

BarbaraBB @Bookbuyingaddict COVID… Will it ever stop? Glad you‘re feeling better and stepped by ❤️ 1mo

51 likes64 comments

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

Question 1 of 3

Here we go! We‘d love to hear your thoughts on Clear. Please be respectful to each other and no spoilers please about the second half: we‘ll get there next week! Have fun camping and chatting ☀️ 🏕️ 📚

BarbaraBB @Addison_Reads @AmyG @BarbaraJean @batsy @bennettBookworm @Bkclubcare @Bklover @Bookbuyingaddict @BookNAround @Bookwormjillk @cariashley @Caroline2 @CarolynM 2mo

BarbaraBB @Catlass007 @CatMS @Cbee @ChaoticMissAdventures @Chelsea.Poole @Christine @Cseydel @Cuilin @Cupcake12 @dabbe @DebinHawaii @Deblovestoread @Graciouswarriorprincess 2mo

BarbaraBB @JenReadsAlot @Jess @jhod @jlhammar @JoyBlue @julesG @julieclair @Julsmarshall @KarenUK @karisa @Karisimo @KateReadsYA @Kimberlone @Kitta @Kristy_K @BookWrym 2mo

See All 88 Comments

BarbaraBB @decalino @DGRachel @elizamarie @ErikasMindfulShelf @Flaneurette @GatheringBooks @Gissy @hes7 @Hooked_on_Books @ImperfectCJ @IndoorDame @JamieArc @jas16 @jenniferw88 2mo

BarbaraBB @kspenmoll @kwmg40 @Larkken @Laughterhp @LeeRHarry @Leniverse @Lizpixie @mcctrish @Merelybookish @Meshell1313 @MicheleinPhilly @monalyisha @Nessavamusic @Oryx @CogsOfEncouragement 2mo

BarbaraBB @peaKnit @prairiegirl_reading @PuddleJumper @quietjenn @RaeLovesToRead @Read4life @Readerann @RebelReader @Roary47 @rockpools @Ruthiella @SamAnne @Sapphire @sarahbarnes @sblbooks 2mo

Megabooks I find this particularly interesting because he did have family there before. I think it‘s a testament to how new ideas/new sensations can energize a person. I don‘t think he felt intellectually or maybe emotionally stimulated until John arrived. 2mo

Leniverse I thought that was a really telling comment. He had been alone for so long he had forgotten what it was like to have company. The hunters and travellers that had briefly visited had felt like an invasive disruption, but having someone stranded there reminded him of having family. 2mo

DGRachel I think it‘s like coming out of Covid lockdown. I now WFH full time and rarely leave the house. I thought I was fine with this new normal, as I can order nearly anything online. I started going out on the weekends a month ago and it was both weird and wonderful. I hadn‘t really thought of myself as lonely, but interacting with strangers made me realize how untrue that was. 2mo

Graciouswarriorprincess I think it‘s because you don‘t realize how lonely you are when you are alone but then someone comes into your life. And that‘s when you realize the loneliness. 2mo

BarbaraBB @DGRachel That is a great comparison I think - and so true. And I am happy for you making this discovery too 2mo

BarbaraBB @Megabooks @Leniverse @Graciouswarriorprincess I agree with all of you. He just forgot about how life could be with others. Meeting John stimulates him indeed and gave him a new perspective on his own life I think 2mo

JamieArc This conversation is interesting because it seems like solitude is being equated with loneliness, and I don‘t see them as the same… are we saying he didn‘t realize his loneliness until JF arrived? 2mo

Kitta I was thinking about how you can feel more aware of your loneliness around other people, like it shows you what you‘ve been missing. I think Ivar has been existing without really living. 2mo

Nessavamusic I think I agree with @JamieArc, Ivar was just surviving day to day until John visits. He is actually noticed for the first time in a long time, if maybe ever, which gives him a new viewpoint of the necessity of human interaction. 2mo

BarbaraBB @JamieArc to me as a no native English speaker I can‘t really explain the difference between the words. They feel the same to me but in other words I think that being alone is not the same as being lonely if that makes sense. And I don‘t think Ivar is lonely when he‘s alone, just when he‘s no longer. (edited) 2mo

BarbaraBB @Nessavamusic That‘s what I tried to say in the comment above 😀 but couldn‘t as well as you just did. Thanks 🙏 2mo

TrishB I think the lockdown comparison by @DGRachel is a good one- we didn‘t know what we missed until then. Ivar didn‘t realise he was missing a relationship (of any sort!). 2mo

Kitta @BarbaraBB I would say solitude is being alone but loneliness is feeling alone. You can feel lonely even surrounded by people for instance, or content in solitude. But you could also feel lonely while in solitude. The Oxford dictionary uses lonely in the definition of solitude “a lonely or uninhabited place” but I don‘t think that‘s right. (edited) 2mo

BarbaraBB @Kitta Thank you! I will remember that from now on! 2mo

squirrelbrain I agree @JamieArc - solitude and loneliness are not the same, but I don‘t think Ivar realised he was lonely until John arrived. Great explanation @kitta! 2mo

peaKnit The completeness of falling into a routine with a friend or partner where words don‘t need to be said. It‘s as though Ivan did not know how deeply lonely he was until til he settled in with complimentary company. 2mo

peaKnit @JamieArc without looking up a definition I think of solitude as contentment and he seemed to feel complete when John was with him. (edited) 2mo

Karisa I had the feeling that Ivar was just working so hard that he didn‘t often take the time to stop and think about it all. It‘s like Sisyphus and the rock. I can‘t imagine staying when everyone leaves. Ivar‘s connection to the place is so strong. I see what you mean though, things are different for us too when we begin to see through another‘s eyes. 2mo

Leniverse Good point about solitude Vs loneliness. I was thinking that it's ironic that John's presence has such an impact, because they cannot communicate and John is completely passive to begin with. Ivar talks more to his horse! Maybe it's more that John's quiet presence and dependence on Ivar creates the space for Ivar to contemplate these things. 2mo

CBee Agree with all of these comments! I think Ivar is happy to be seen again, despite John not being stuck there by choice. His reaction to the picture of Mary also struck me - he‘d gotten so used to the daily monotony of life and didn‘t realize how lonely he was until he found the picture and then John. 2mo

mcctrish I was thinking during this part about that saying “better the devil you know” for Ivar, he knew the island and how it worked so he stayed, you can‘t miss what you don‘t know. I agree with @Megabooks why John‘s arrival could change that - John‘s methodical attempt to understand him opened his eyes to friendship/connection on a level different from his family/shipwrecks/landlord 2mo

Deblovestoread I don‘t think Ivar was lonely before John‘s arrival. I think parts of him were dormant. Those parts were awaken with the finding of Mary‘s photo and then the strange man. (edited) 2mo

JamieArc @BarbaraBB Yes, I agree with you completely. 2mo

JamieArc @Karisa Yes, I think so too - that he was so busy living day to day life that he didn‘t think about it. 2mo

TheBookHippie Still waiting 😵‍💫🤪for my library hold. 2mo

Meshell1313 I love everyone‘s comparisons to the Covid lockdown. It‘s amazing how much we are able to adapt to anything. This has just become Ivar‘s normal life- living in solitude and he probably could have kept on living like that forever and would have been fine. John‘s arrival reminded him of what it‘s like to be around a friend and not just someone who comes to collect money from him. 2mo

BarbaraBB @Karisa That is so true. He stayed when the other left. His connection to the island is so strong he didn‘t even think about being or feeling alone at all because he was where he wanted to be. James‘s arrival disturbed his equilibrium. 2mo

Roary47 @Leniverse @DGRachel @Graciouswarriorprincess @Kitta @Nessavamusic @CBee I had a similar thought to all of you. I feel like he was in survival mode. The loss of his family did not alter the fact that there was work and life that needed to continue. Actually seeing John and just enjoying someone else‘s company was a thought that didn‘t cross his mind so he himself could keep going I really like all the reflect on loneliness vs solitude it wasn‘t⬇️ 2mo

Roary47 Something that even crossed my mind, but makes a lot of sense in Ivar‘s situation. Thank you for your thoughts! 🥰💛 2mo

Kitta @peaKnit I agree that solitude has a feeling of contentment with it (at least that how I think of it and use the word!), although technically there can be a lonely solitude, that‘s not what I generally think of! (edited) 2mo

Megabooks @Deblovestoread very good point. He hadn‘t flexed his companionship “muscles” in a long time, and he enjoyed it in a way I don‘t think he thought was possible. 2mo

Kitta @TheBookHippie you‘re still waiting for it? Oh no! I hope it comes soon! 2mo

RaeLovesToRead @Deblovestoread @Megabooks What you said! 😊 2mo

willaful @DGRachel I'm also reminded of lockdown and how special it felt to see a friendly face, even if it was just waving at your neighbor across the street. 2mo

dabbe I see more of a positive connotation with the word “solitude“, almost like the joy of being alone. “Loneliness“ connotes to me the negative pain of being alone. I believe Ivar was content in his solitude, not even being aware of it until John reminded him that he was lonely for human contact. 2mo

CBee @dabbe agree 💯 2mo

TheBookHippie @Kitta yup 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 2mo

BookWrym I am with @dabbe Ivar didn‘t consider himself to be missing anything until John arrived. I think the role of carer also contributed to this as he was needed by someone else. 2mo

kspenmoll @dabbe I agree with your assessment. Ivar seemed content with his life due to his love of place. I wonder if it would be a huge shift when/if his horse & cow died, as they were his companions. 2mo

Maggie4483 I agree with the comparisons to Covid lockdowns. I am extremely introverted, but Spring of 2020 was probably one of the hardest times in my life. And I found that the hardest times were the hours immediately after a virtual meeting (whether it was our weekly work check-ins, or a family Zoom hang). When I was hanging out alone all day, I could distract myself, but the “together-but-separate” made my isolation more intense. 2mo

kspenmoll I do think John‘s slow entry into consciousness , his gradual awakening, physical dependence on Ivar allowed for ivar‘s attachment to grow. His letting go of James wife‘s picture was a defining moment. (edited) 2mo

Maggie4483 I also agree with @JamieArc et. al. about “Solitude vs. Loneliness). You can be alone and not lonely, and you can feel lonely in a room full of people. I do believe that people need people. But they have to be the RIGHT people. Something about John is right for Ivar. 2mo

kspenmoll @TheBookHippie Do u know where u are on list? So difficult with new books. 2mo

TheBookHippie @kspenmoll was at 36 now at 3! 😆😅😂 2mo

BkClubCare Agree with everyone‘ comparison of alone vs. lonely, and emerging from “Covid confinement”. Was also going to mention the feeling of being needed when I saw @BookWrym ‘s comment 😊 Plus, things that are new, do tend to awaken new feelings and unexpected reactions. 2mo

BarbaraBB @dabbe @BookWrym Good points! 2mo

BarbaraBB @Maggie4483 Thanks for sharing. Covid has had such an impact on all of us. Your example of feeling isolated seems so me a bit similar as I suppose Ivar felt. 2mo

Chelsea.Poole Great question and quote to start off the discussion! I really had a soft spot for Ivar. I couldn‘t decide, initially, if he was content in his solitude or if he put much thought into being alone at all. I felt that he just accepted his lot in life. I did wonder how he came to be alone and the explanation in the next half of the book made sense to me. John certainly had quite an influence on his quiet life. 2mo

Chelsea.Poole @kspenmoll yes! Re: cow & horse. I appreciated how tender he was with those animals. Definitely his companions. (edited) 2mo

Hooked_on_books Even before he was alone, Ivar was part of a teeny community. So when John arrives and is truly trying to make a connection with him, as well as requiring his care, I‘m not sure Ivar has ever had a relationship like that. I think it opened his eyes to possibilities he may not have known even existed. 2mo

JenReadsAlot @dabbe I love how you said that. 2mo

willaful @Maggie4483 That reminds me of my daughter. I thought she would have an easier time, as an introvert, but she desperately missed the small amounts of daily contact she had with others via school, riding the bus etc. 2mo

dabbe @CBee 💙💚💙 2mo

dabbe @BookWrym 💙💚💙 2mo

dabbe @BarbaraBB 💙💚💙 2mo

dabbe @JenReadsAlot 💙💚💙 2mo

dabbe @kspenmoll Excellent point. I often wonder if we as humans must have HUMAN contact or if contact with a sentient being is more than enough. 💙💚💙 2mo

Soubhiville @dabbe you worded that perfectly for me as well. 🙂 2mo

dabbe @Soubhiville 💙💚💙 2mo

LeeRHarry Being in his own solitude Ivar had his own routine and order to how he lived his life so when John arrived that completely changed. Ivar had to adapt to this and I guess realised that he‘d missed having that human contact. 2mo

CBee @Chelsea.Poole possibly the main reason I like him so much 😊 2mo

BarbaraBB @Hooked_on_books So true! I think you‘re right about it being all new to him. This may have made him realize how lonely life had been until now with only the (very important indeed @kspenmoll !) animals as his companions. He must have feared losing them so much. (edited) 2mo

squirrelbrain @dabbe - that‘s a great explanation of loneliness and solitude. 2mo

AmyG I think Ivar was alone for so long it became comfortable, what he knew. He had animals for company. He didn‘t realize what he had, or didn‘t, until John showed up. Well said @dabbe about solitude and lonliness. 2mo

youneverarrived I‘m going to go through the comments but my initial thoughts on the question are that Ivar was just accustomed to living in solitude so he wasn‘t really aware of wanting or needing connection with other people. It was just his way of life. Not until John turned up and he had human connection did he realise the solitariness of his life. 2mo

GatheringBooks I am late to the party but happy to see everyone‘s musings on solitude, loneliness, parallels to the pandemic. I am reminded of the picturebook Pete and Pickles by Berkeley Breathed - inspired by the author/illustrator‘s daughter‘s doodles about a pig who is sad - only he doesn‘t know it. 2mo

dabbe @squirrelbrain 💚💙💚 2mo

dabbe @AmyG 💚💙💚 2mo

youneverarrived @DGRachel that‘s a great comparison. That‘s how I see it too. Also agree with @deblovestoread about parts of Ivar being dormant - so he was content in his solitary life, I think, because he didn‘t have company to make him think otherwise, it was just his way of life. 2mo

Caryl Wonderful thoughts on solitude & loneliness, all. Davies‘s use of language is brilliant; as I read these comments I remembered her description of Ivar being walloped with feeling when John Ferguson first looks as him, like “what happens when a rock is covered by the sea—when, briefly, the water rises up and submerges it completely before it falls away again and reveals it” (p. 68). That whole passage is beautiful. 2mo

Caryl I also recalled this story I heard on the radio about a book recently published on the science of solitude: https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2024/06/03/power-science-solitude-alone-creativity-... 2mo

BarbaraBB @Caryl that is a wonderful quote! And so on-point indeed! 2mo

BarbaraBB @JamieArc @Kitta @squirrelbrain @peaKnit @Leniverse @Roary47 @dabbe @CBee @BookWrym @kspenmoll @Maggie4483 @BkClubCare @Soubhiville Have you see @Caryl ‘s link above ⬆️ on the science of solitude? Interesting!! 2mo

squirrelbrain Lovely quote @Caryl - and thanks for the link! 🙏 2mo

dabbe Fascinating link, @Caryl. Whether we're introverts/extroverts/combination of both, we can all benefit from solitude. 💚💙💚 2mo

kspenmoll @Caryl Thanks- great article. Friday night since HS has always been my solitude night, to recharge myself. Otherwise the next week would go downhill… 2mo

julieclair @kspenmoll I wondered about the horse and cow, too, especially when I read that he had been given the horse in his teens, and now he‘s 40-ish. I worried what would happen when the horse died. I think he would feel true loneliness then. 2mo

kspenmoll @julieclair Yes, his animals are his family- just like so many of us! 2mo

Bookbuyingaddict Question 🙋‍♀️ 1- sorry for delay Iv had covid again !! @BarbaraBB @squirrelbrain @Megabooks - when he was alone he was content 😌 in his own world with his animals ( in also did worry about them ) and it wasn‘t until he had a human companion he realised just how lonely / alone he had been . 1mo

Megabooks @Bookbuyingaddict sorry you‘re dealing with Covid! Great point! 1mo

squirrelbrain Oh no @Bookbuyingaddict - hope you‘re feeling better now! 1mo

54 likes88 comments

kspenmoll

Clear: A Novel | Carys Davies

#booksandcoffee #porchlife #CampLitsy24 #June

In love with this book.

I am in Eastern US. What time is discussion?