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Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

A year ago, today, I started reading T&C with the #ShakespeareReadalong ... I discovered my act by act assessment in my journal app. My assessment of Act V is my favourite.
🤣😂🤣

Butterfinger That is funny. 4y

GingerAntics @Butterfinger right? I just had to share. 4y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa That‘s fabulous! I‘m wishing now I would have done something like that for myself as we get further and I think, that situation was either in this play or that one, I can‘t remember which! 4y

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GingerAntics @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I was starting to forget the earliest plays I did, so when I decided to keep a reading journal, I decided I‘d keep an act by act guide - just a few sentences - so I could remember what happened in the plays. 4y

rabbitprincess 😂😂😂 4y

merelybookish Maybe the most hated play we've read! 🤣😂 4y

GingerAntics @merelybookish 🤣😂🤣 apparently we‘re a tough crowd. 4y

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TheEllieMo

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

#Nature #QuotsyJun20 @TK-421

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Gezemice

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

pan

There is a reason why this play is not staged often: it is a hot mess.
The saving grace are a few witty lines by Cressida, and a couple romantic scenes. Troilus and Cressida barely show up. There are too many story lines, none tied up well. The beginning is full of long, sanctimonious speeches. Shakespeare spends four and a half acts idling about, then crams half the Iliad into half an act. It is a badly constructed play that goes nowhere. ⭐️⭐️/5

Gezemice #shakespearereadalong I am glad I finally finished this because the discussion was great. The play, not so much. 5y

GingerAntics Hot mess is a GREAT way to describe this play. 💙💙💙 5y

Gezemice @GingerAntics Lol! 😁 5y

erzascarletbookgasm I like your ‘hot mess‘ description! 😄 5y

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erzascarletbookgasm

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

pick

#shakespearereadalong
I ‘struggle‘ reading this strange play online. Most of the time I got lost in the long discussions. I‘m also not very familiar with Homer‘s Iliad, so I had to list down the heroes names on paper to remind myself. Initially I thought it‘s a love play but there‘s nothing romantic about it. What follows displays the absurd actions of the war heroes during a futile war. The play felt like mocking the mighty war heroes. 👇

erzascarletbookgasm (cont.) Obviously I didn‘t like how women are being valued in the play. Thersites, daring and raving all the time, is a welcome sight. Surprisingly I did not bail, and strangely, it‘s a ‘Pick‘. 5y

erzascarletbookgasm (cont.).. Thank you @merelybookish for the weekly great discussion points. Sorry I‘ve been a bad buddy reader..it‘s no fun reading this online and some scenes I needed to revisit to try to understand thus I often got to the discussions late. But the comments and perspectives of the others have been interesting. And witty. 🙂 Glad I read this! 5y

batsy Nice to hear it's a pick for you, as well! We're a small group 😆 5y

Graywacke Glad this worked for you. Yeah, @batsy, we are a small group. 5y

merelybookish Yay! A pick! I certainly can appreciate how difficult it is to read this as an etext! You're a trooper! And no need to apologize. You are always welcome to add to the discussion but I always assume there are some readers who read along but don't necessarily comment. And that's okay! It definitely helped reading this one with a group! Any chance you can get a hard copy of Merry Wives? 🤞 (Also sorry for the delayed response!) 5y

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merelybookish @gingerantics @readinginthedark @batsy @Rachbb3 @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke @jewright @TheBookHippie @Sunraven @MellieAntoinette @catebutler @ladyneverwhere @Sunraven @erzascarletbookgasm @Lcsmcat @Susannah @wife @RestlessFickleBookHoarder @Faibka @InLibrisVeritas @rabbitprincess @saresmoore @readordierachel @CoffeeNBooks 5y

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Final act of T&C! 🎉🎉 There's spying, raging, and fighting. Hector dies but the fates of Troilus, Cressida, and Diomedes are unclear. No one is happy. Thersites provides spot-on political commentary. Final word goes to Panderus, appropriate perhaps as his murky motives/ morals seem representative of this play and its message.
Okay #shakespearereadalong folks, YOU DID IT! Stick a feather in your Shakespeare hat because this was challenging!

merelybookish Now tell me your thoughts! And your reason why this problem play is a problem! 😀 As always, thanks for all your comments and discussion. I enjoyed this play (I liked discovering this 'modern' side of Shakespeare. And the language was as beautiful, complex and chewy as it gets!) but it it was made better by reading it with you! 5y

merelybookish @wanderinglynn @zsuzsanna_reads @Balibee146 @BiblioLitten @IndoorDame @teainthelibrary @Gezemice @oOArankaOo @Mtroiano @KatieanneF @rjsthumbelina @DGRachel @CSeydel @anna40 @kathedron 5y

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merelybookish Next up is Merry Wives of Windsor starting August 4th and hosted by @gingerantics Some comedy to lighten the mood! 🙂 5y

DGRachel I don‘t know that I can really identify what didn‘t work for me, but for some reason, the words just would not stick in my head. I tried print, ebook, audiobook, reading silently, and reading out loud myself, and I feel like none of the words sunk into my brain. I‘m also not a fan of Homer or Greek tragedy in general, so that may have been part of the issue. But I‘m happy to be able to count it as another play read! 5y

ladyneverwhere I think I'm in the minority here but I actually liked the play. It could just be because it's been too long since I read Shakespeare and I just appreciated the language, but regardless I'm glad to have read it. Thanks for hosting the read along @merelybookish !! 5y

TheBookHippie I‘m so proud I finished it. I like Greek history mythology and tragedy and still I struggled 🤣...oy. The language was indeed beautiful as always even its its maddening state. Looking forward to lighter read this go round!! Thanks for hosting!!! I would have never made it through!!!! 5y

merelybookish @DGRachel I get that! My intro discussed how much the language shifts in this play and how abstract it is. So I can understand not ever getting a hook into it. But yes, now you can say you've read it! And that seems rare even among Shakespeare lovers! 🙂 5y

merelybookish @ladyneverwhere A few of us liked it! We are a growing minority! Glad you joined us! 5y

batsy @ladyneverwhere I enjoyed it, too. Lots to mull over and the language is really something. Thanks for hosting @merelybookish and these discussions definitely enriched my reading. 5y

Graywacke @ladyneverwhere @batsy I liked it a lot too. It‘s difficult, and that‘s one reason it‘s a problem play. It‘s also making fun of what should be a tragedy, confusing the experience. But once you get the cynicism, I think it all kind of makes sense. Thersites was our guide to how to view it. (edited) 5y

Graywacke I‘ll add, I really liked Cressida. She navigates through all this mess and has left me thinking. 5y

GingerAntics I hope they all died. Is that wrong? I‘m not sure I care if it is wrong. 5y

jewright Thersites was my favorite character. It‘s not my favorite play, but I‘m glad I read it with this group. 5y

Sunraven @ladyneverwhere: I didn‘t love it overall, as I found it structurally rather incoherent, but I pretty much came at it from the same place as you and I‘m glad I read it, too! I always find something to love in Shakespeare and I‘ll definitely be back for the next readalong! 5y

Sunraven Final thoughts: I love that comic strip — 100% accurate. 😆 Also, “chewy” language is a great concept ... Yum!

I liked that Scene 1 started off amusingly with a long string of exchanged insults; some of them reminded me of Egon yelling at slime in Ghostbusters: “You‘re nothing but an unstable short-chain molecule!” I was finally entertained by Thersites‘ ramblings and still thought Hector was relatively unhatable, but... (edited) 5y

Sunraven I found the wrap-up as a whole rather messy and unsatisfying. Achilles‘ win and Cressida‘s change of heart felt random and eh to me, and Troilus‘ anger seemed somewhat justified, but I ended up not being entirely sure why the play was named after them, since it seemed more like they were a flimsy excuse to make fun of a bunch of people from the Iliad. (Hence my agreeing with the comic strip.) 5y

Lcsmcat I‘m glad I read it, but I won‘t be running out to buy tickets to the next production. 5y

Sunraven The only thing that keeps this from being a solid “meh” for me is that there are some great lines in it that I‘m definitely keeping in my quote book. Selections:

Achilles: Thou crusty batch of nature, what's the news?

Thersites: thou idle immaterial skein of sleave-silk

Cassandra: It is the purpose that makes strong the vow.

Hector: Now is my day's work done; I'll take good breath:
Rest, sword; thou hast thy fill of blood and death. 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I thought this review on Goodreads was pretty good after I finished and was looking for some deeper meaning. They thought it was a dark parody of Romeo and Juliet, but instead of the young lovers dying for love, passion, bravery...instead they live and love and bravery die instead... https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1793555 (edited) 5y

Graywacke @Sunraven fun lines! 5y

merelybookish @jewright @batsy @ladyneverwhere I'm really glad I read this one with others. It helped to know others found it hard too! And to have somewhere to complain about Ulysses. 😄 5y

merelybookish @GingerAntics The pain is over! You're free of T&C now! 😝 5y

merelybookish @Graywacke Agreed about Cressida. She really illustrates women's choices in situations where they have no power. I wish we had had more from her perspective. At the end, we only get her through Troilus's eyes. 5y

merelybookish @Lcsmcat There was a recent performance in NYC that got lots of good reviews. But it is a play that demands a lot of the audience. 5y

merelybookish @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Thanks for sharing that! That is insightful. It addresses @sunraven point about why the play is named for T&C. In R&J, their love story ends up changing the society. You feel the feuding families have learned the error of their ways. But in T&C, the lovers are destroyed by the larger forces. They are one individual story (among many) of people destroyed by war. 5y

merelybookish @Sunraven Great quotes! Thersites always gets some great insults in! 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @merelybookish You‘re welcome 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @merelybookish And I agree, I definitely wish we‘d have seen more from Cressida POV at the end. 5y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @merelybookish Seemed we always saw her (Cressida) from another point of view, or maybe it felt that way because she was always performing for someone - Pandarus, Troilus or Diomedes, etc. (except at the end of her last scene where she thinks she‘s alone) @merelybookish thanks for leading us through this. Another great readalong. 5y

GingerAntics @merelybookish is this another one of those plays we can rewrite? I think everyone should die at the end. 🔪🔪🔪 I think that would make the play much better. 😈 🤣😂🤣 There was another we were going to rewrite, I can‘t remember which right now, though. 5y

Sunraven @merelybookish @graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Oh, man, good point with the idea that the story would be interesting from Cressida‘s perspective. Now I kind of want to write that ... Off to look at other versions of this story now for research. 😉 Maybe I can even grant @GingerAntics‘ wish and kill everyone at the end. 😆 5y

GingerAntics @Sunraven YEEEEEEES!!! 💙💙💙 5y

Graywacke 😂 5y

erzascarletbookgasm Haha love this cartoon strip! 👍 5y

Gezemice What a great comic strip! It sums it up well, lol! 5y

Gezemice @Sunraven I completelt agree with your entire assessment. A hot mess. Troilus and Cressida barely show up - and the change of heart is completely out of the blue. Generally, no storyline is followed through. And yeah - the Illiad in half an Act - nope, not even the Bard can pull that off. 5y

Gezemice @merelybookish @Graywacke @SunRaven @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @GingerAntics I have finally finished it, but I must say the discussion is way better than the play. Just no coherent story. Too many long, sanctimonius speeches. A few good lines by Cressida... that‘s it. 5y

GingerAntics @Gezemice that‘s probably the most resounding review/summary anyone could muster!!! 🤣😂🤣 5y

Sunraven @Gezemice: If the commentary is at least amusing, at least the play spawned something good ... 😆 5y

Gezemice @GingerAntics Well, I figured we‘d probably agree... :) And yeah, rewriting it might help. First, take Ulysses out. Have Cressida way more scenes. Take that “Iliad in tweets” part out and resolve the love story. Possibly by killing everyone. Except Hector, because he is a good guy. 5y

Gezemice @Sunraven That‘s the best part! 5y

GingerAntics @Gezemice I am totally game for killing everyone!!! 5y

merelybookish @Gezemice I'm glad we make Shakespeare better!! 5y

readinginthedark I love this little comic strip! 🤣 5y

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Graywacke

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

pick

The practical nature of desire. Shakespeare‘s cynical take on Homer and romance, and jealousy. Cressida makes for a character worth some study. Thersites, the classical bad soldier turned Shakespearian sharp-witted fool, maybe steals the show, poking fun at all Homer‘s heroes. “Lechery, lechery, still wars and lechery; nothing else holds fashion.” - he would understand the current US president.

#shakespearereadalong

Graywacke And Pandarus leaves us with words on pimping: “O traitors and bawds, how earnestly are you set a-work, and how ill requited! why should our endeavour be so loved and the performance so loathed?” 5y

Lcsmcat Your kitty is cute! 5y

Leftcoastzen 😻 5y

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merelybookish Glad you found something to enjoy! (We are definitely in the minority!) I agree that Cressida is a complex character. So much of this play was challenging and gave a new side to Shakespeare. 5y

ulrichyumiodd I wrote my Master‘s thesis on the play (as well as Chaucer‘s Troilus and Criseyde), so the bad reviews are crushing my soul, haha. So glad to see someone enjoyed it! I love Cressida! 5y

Graywacke @merelybookish @ulrichyumiodd You know, it was difficult, and in places painfully so (Ulysses!), but I actually really enjoyed it and found it really rewarding. A lot to think about. I gave it 5 stars. 5y

Graywacke @merelybookish yes, a new side of the bard. This whole readalong has me wondering about this guy and this atmosphere, but this one forces me to rethink it all over again. 5y

Graywacke @ulrichyumiodd that‘s cool about your thesis. Chaucer will be new to me. I‘m hoping to read him next year. And, yeah, I loved Cressida too. What a an interesting complex character. Glad we see her in four(?) completely different environments so we can appreciate her. 5y

batsy I'm so glad it's a pick for you, as well! Nice review. I love how this problem play turned out to be a surprise, for me. In a good way 🙂 Also, adorable kitty. 5y

jewright Thersites was definitely my favorite too. Your review almost makes me like the play better. It‘s just some of Shakespeare‘s plays I LOVE, and this one didn‘t reach that level for me. I wonder how I will feel about it if I read it again in a few years? 5y

ulrichyumiodd @Graywacke I hope you‘ll enjoy Chaucer too! My favorite is definitely The Canterbury Tales, but I learned to appreciate Troilus and Criseyde, too. 5y

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erzascarletbookgasm

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Trying to finish up before the readathon begins. I really dislike not reading from a physical copy, it seems so hard. Thankfully there‘s Thersites and his snide remarks.
#shakespearereadalong
@merelybookish

merelybookish He definitely lifts a scene! 5y

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TheBookHippie

Troilus and Cressida (Critical) | William Shakespeare

#SHAKESPEAREREADALONG
Catching up 😩🤷🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️😭😱🤣🤪 finishing it and I‘ve no words 😳😭😭😭

GingerAntics Good luck in there. 5y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I hate it!!! 5y

GingerAntics You are not alone! 5y

wanderinglynn You did better than me. I DNF‘d it. 5y

TheBookHippie @wanderinglynn I‘m a bit strong willed 🤷🏽‍♀️🤣🤦🏽‍♀️ 5y

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GingerAntics #shakespearereadalong #Shakespeare #TroilusandCressida 5y

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

pan

This is the first (only?) Shakespeare play I have straight up hated. I didn‘t really like any of the characters or any of the dialogue. It started out a hot mess. It became more of a hot mess with every act. By the end I just kind of wanted all the characters to end up dead. The only good part about the ending was that the play was finally over. Maybe this is one of those plays that is better on stage. It wasn‘t nearly enough of a tragedy for me.

GingerAntics It seemed like insanity. I didn‘t know Shakespeare went through a drinking phase. That‘s really the only thing that explains how horrible this play is in comparison to all of his others. 5y

DGRachel I‘m glad to be able to say I‘ve read it, but I‘m even happier it‘s over. 😂 5y

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GingerAntics @DGRachel I completely agree. I can‘t believe I was so excited for this play. I can‘t believe I voted for this madness. Ugh. 5y

DGRachel I thought the same thing. I felt so guilty for voting for it, I had to finish it. 🤦🏻‍♀️ 5y

GingerAntics @DGRachel right? 5y

TheBookHippie Finishing it now screaming 5y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie it‘s a painful one, isn‘t it? 5y

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I‘m so ashamed I voted for this hot mess 🤷🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️ 5y

TheBookHippie @DGRachel same 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️ 5y

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie exactly!!! I wonder just how many of us are thinking, hm, why did I vote for this madness? 5y

Gezemice Lol I am just looking back at your review. We both said hot mess. I swear I have not seen it first, lol. 5y

GingerAntics @Gezemice I think that word (phrase?) is just properly descriptive for this play. Quick, easy, covers everything. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 5y

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merelybookish @GingerAntics @readinginthedark @Sunraven @jewright @thebookhippie @Graywacke @batsy @saresmoore @Lcsmcat @readordierachel @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @teainthelibrary @MellieAntoinette @catebutler @aeeklund @Rachbb3 @CoffeeNBooks @wanderinglynn @Susannah @Faibka @RestlessFickleBookHoarder @zsuzsanna_reads 5y

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Act IV! A long act with dialogue and interaction between the Greeks and the Trojans! More love. More war. More cynicism from Thersites.
A happy Troilus and Cressida awake only to be forced apart. They exchange tokens and swear undying love. We meet Diomedes. Cressida is forced to kiss all the men on the Greek side. Hector, the diplomat, praises everyone but will not fight Ajax. He and Achilles finally meet.
#shakespearereadalong

merelybookish Lots of speakers in this act, anyone stand out? Is it still all talk, no action with these warriors? Did Troilus grow in anyone's esteem? How did you understand Cressida's tone and behavior with the Greeks? What is your impression of Diomedes? Anyone miss Ulysses's speechifying? 😆 5y

merelybookish @oOArankaOo @Gezemice @erzascarletbookgasm @indoordame @ladyneverwhere @CSeydel @BiblioLitten @anna40 @KatieanneF @rjsthumbelina @InLibrisVeritas @rabbitprincess @Balibee146 @kathedron @wife @Mtroiano @Bookishgal71 5y

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wanderinglynn I admit, I have bailed on this play. I just couldn‘t force myself to read anymore. I now get the criticism. This, along most of the Henrys, will rank as one of my least fave Shakespeare plays. 5y

merelybookish @wanderinglynn Understandable! I don't think you're alone in that decision. 🙂 5y

Rachbb3 Is it bad that I dislike everyone except Thersites? 😂 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I finished this act and just went on to the end...I wanted to know how it ended. I was a bit disappointed, but I‘ll save some of the specifics for next week‘s discussion. What I will say now, is that I feel like Shakespeare took the Iliad and lampooned a lot of the characters, all the honor and great warriors...I feel like he just turned that all on it‘s head, and lambasted the “great” heroes and battles as human vanity. (Cont.) 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa ... I wish we knew for for sure when this was written, and what age he was when he wrote it. Was he just older and more cynical then? Were the European monarchies in one of their pointless battles and he was making a point about the war drums thumping and speechifying of his time with this version of the Iliad. 🤷‍♀️ 5y

Graywacke I ended up really enjoying this act. It was fast paced, lots of entertaining stuff going on, lots of great lines. I highlighted several. Troilus had some of those great lines. I was entertained how Cressida handled the Greeks. She has sass and she‘s tough and adjusts to circumstance. I thought Diomedes interrupted and undermined Troilus‘s fanciful romantic visions with some harsh reality. And I did NOT miss Ulysses‘s speeches!!! 5y

batsy @Rachbb3 Not at all, I feel the same 😆 5y

Graywacke @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Me too, about Shakespeare Where was he, what was he thinking? (George Chapman‘s Iliad translation came out in 1598. Unlike Keats, seems the bard did not have a peak of Darien moment. ) 5y

batsy The Cressida situation angered me, and puzzled me, and stressed me out. I admire how she maintains presence of mind in what seemed like an act of self-preservation. All of these men trade in women as objects & war trophies & as abstract ideals of "love" but then blame them for harlotry ? 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke Yes! I miss the context here, and with Shakespeare there are few reliable answers since most of his work was complied later, and was reworked as it showed, and may have been written by more than one person, etc, etc the debate goes on. 5y

batsy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa That's a good point about the lampooning of political & traditional ideals ... I would like to know more about the social & historical context of how he came to write the play, as well. The intro in my Signet edition states that "Thersites' view of the world was never Shakespeare's" which I sort of understand, based on most of his other plays that don't seem as cynical, but it's a bold claim that intrigues me. 5y

GingerAntics @batsy I agree with you 100%. Women are to blame for everything. 🙄 This play becomes more of a hot mess the more we read. 5y

jewright @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I completely agree with this. 5y

jewright I don‘t like this play nearly as much, but it really reminds me of Romeo and Juliet again here with the hurried parting of Troilus and Cressida. The treatment of all the women is just making me sad, but this act was easier to read. 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @jewright There was a great review of this that I read after I finished, comparing it to Romeo and Juliet too. I‘ll try to find it again and post it next week. 5y

Lcsmcat I‘m annoyed by how readily Troilus gave Cressida over to the Greeks. He didn‘t even talk about a plan B, much less try to escape with her. He could use a lesson from Paris. 5y

Sunraven @Lcsmcat: Not that I like Troilus much, but maybe he‘s just not that creative, and there does seem to be a lot of traffic between the Greeks and Trojans — and he did say he‘d come visit. Maybe he figures/hopes if he waits it out the Greeks will leave and he‘ll get her back and all will be well? 5y

Sunraven For me this act was an easier read than the beginning; maybe Shakespeare was just off his game to start with — it happens. I liked some of the verbal sparring and wordplay in this act, I liked that Diomedes in Scene 1 seemed annoyed by the whole Trojan War situation instead of finding it exciting and honorable, Pandarus is still an annoying goof, Hector still seems non-horrible, and Troilus annoys me less now that he‘s not hormonally angsting. 5y

Sunraven And some quotes I liked:

Paris: This is the most despiteful gentle greeting,
The noblest hateful love, that e'er I heard of.

Troilus: “wings more momentary-swift than thought”

Agamemnon: Give with thy trumpet a loud note to Troy,
Thou dreadful Ajax; that the appalled air
May pierce the head of the great combatant
And hale him hither.

Ulysses: O deadly gall, and theme of all our scorns!
For which we lose our heads to gild his horns. 5y

Graywacke @Sunraven I loved that line by Paris too!! Great quotes. 5y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @sunraven - in the Troilus is a fool category, he‘s maybe naively playing the romantic-heroic warrior role - the one Thersites is mocking and undermining. So he has to stoically accept and give his ridiculously naive request to Diomedes. Troilus has missed the reality. Either that, or he‘s just chucking the girl since he‘s had his way... 5y

merelybookish @Rachbb3 He's the only one who doesn't seem full of himself! 5y

merelybookish @Riveted_Reader_Melissa The intro to my edition discusses the possibility of the play commenting on the Earl of Essex who had been an important courtly figure (often compared to Achilles) who was later charged with treason. Whether or not that's the case, he argues that Shakespeare was critical of the distance between espoused courtly virtue and the reality of political maneuvering. 5y

merelybookish @batsy I know! Cressida's behavior is interesting. She seems to know her options are limited. Is she better off playing along than trying to maintain some distant or virtuous stance. Because either way, she is going to be used. 5y

batsy @Sunraven It is interesting to me that Hector is given some measure of integrity and doesn't come off as some patronising schmuck. Like, one could look at him out of everyone in this play and be like, "Yeah, he seems ... decent." Nice quotes you've chosen; I really liked "wings more momentary-swift than thought". Sometimes his plays are so strange/contentious that one almost forgets the richness of the language. 5y

merelybookish @batsy Hmmm. Does that mean no one in the play represents Shakespeare's viewpoint? At least Thersites has some insight into what's going on. 5y

batsy @GingerAntics This one is really hard in terms of the economy of gender relations and the place of women in a "heroic" world—it's pretty stark and brutal. 5y

batsy @merelybookish Yes, I had the same question. The guy concluded his intro with that statement and didn't elaborate. But I would rather Shakespeare have Thersites' POV than anyone else's! 5y

merelybookish @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @jewright Yes, I can see parallels with R&J since both are love stories shaped by larger forces. But it's easier to believe in the love between R&J. And that the love between them transcends their circumstances. 5y

merelybookish @Lcsmcat Haha. Yes good point. Troilus is more dutiful soldier than faithful lover. 5y

merelybookish @Sunraven Nonhorrible! 😂 That's the bar in this play! Hector at least seems somewhat like a hero and likes he operating from some kind of moral code. 5y

merelybookish @Graywacke My edition sets Diomedes and Troilus as parallel figures. Troilus is the idealistic courtly lover; Diomedes is more blunt and direct. 5y

GingerAntics @batsy absolutely. From the cause of the Trojan war all the way down to Cressida, the women are a currency of sorts, so they place value on them, but they‘re not exactly seen as human beings either. They are little more than currency. (edited) 5y

Graywacke @merelybookish hmm. Interesting. They are opposites... and idealism does not win. 5y

Graywacke With so many jaded takes on Homer, wondering which character is most Homeric. Hector? Troilus?! 5y

Graywacke 😁 Side note - I‘m a little self conscious here about being male and not being as horrified by the treatment of women as everyone above. (Not that I agree with it!! I agree with all the comments above about it.) 5y

Gezemice I was going to skip this but the discussion was so interesting that I picked it up - unfortunately I am only on Act 3. The first act was very hard to read but it gets better later. 5y

Graywacke @Gezemice 👍 Glad you joined in. This one can really be rewarding when Ulysses hushes. 5y

merelybookish @Gezemice Yes! Glad you decided to give it a go. It's really not like any other Shakespeare I've read. And like @Graywacke said, it is surprising (as well as frustrating!) 5y

Sunraven @batsy: Personally, I almost never read Shakespeare for the content, and always read him for the language. 😆 Your comment pretty much sums up how I feel about Hector here, which is interesting, since I seem to recall feeling pretty eh about him in other contexts. Here, he‘s almost like Iago in Othello, not in character but for relief of tedium. (I had to like Iago best by default, because he seemed to dislike everyone else as much as I did.) 5y

Sunraven @merelybookish: I‘m imagining “nonhorrible” in a cover blurb for this play now. 😆

Also, maybe I‘m odd in that I rarely assume that a good writer is duplicating their own viewpoint in the viewpoint of a single character (unless I see specific, compelling reasons to come to that conclusion); instead, I usually figure the whole work represents the author‘s viewpoint, even if not always in an obvious way. 5y

57 likes44 comments

Graywacke

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

That‘s Act iv - building up courage to begin 🙂
#shakespearereadalong

jewright I thought it was a little easier to understand. 5y

Graywacke @jewright yeah, once I dove in, it‘s been good fun, and I‘m copying quotes, and I like Troilus‘s lines (I know, not so friendly to our view of the world). No long speeches by Ulysses so far, 👍 5y

merelybookish It's a long act but things do happen. 5y

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batsy Yes, I felt the same before I went into the last two acts ... Trepidation because it's quite long and my main question was, "Is Ulysses still talking?" ? 5y

Graywacke @merelybookish Yeah. And I enjoyed all the terrific lines, some elegant and some just entertaining (“This is the most despiteful gentle greeting,
The noblest hateful love, that e'er I heard of.”) 5y

Graywacke @batsy Yes! That. That‘s what I was thinking. (Ulysses just needs to tighten-up his manipulations into short one liners, and spare us all. 🤨) 5y

mrsmarch @witchyreader13 Maybe you‘d like the Shakespeare Readalong? 5y

45 likes7 comments

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

This play has moments only. Just when I think it‘s going to draw together, off it goes again. But this quote made me laugh. #shakespearereadalong

jewright I liked this quotation too. 5y

jillrhudy Eh, blow it out your ear, for Hector. 5y

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DGRachel

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

pan

I just did not get this one. No matter how I tried to read it (print or audio), the words would not sink in. I hated all the characters and the way Cressida was treated made me rage-y. I didn't find any humor in this play at all. I can see why it's considered a problem play. I don't have the book with me, so here's a picture of #Bailey instead. She's better than the stinky old play anyway. 😂 #shakespearereadalong

Ddzmini Awe so looks so cute 😍📖😋 5y

valeriegeary Good dog. 😄 5y

wanderinglynn Super cute dog! ❤️🐶 (And I agree with you on the play.) (edited) 5y

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TrishB Baileys always worth looking at 🐶❤️ 5y

DGRachel @Ddzmini @valeriegeary @wanderinglynn @TrishB Thanks for the Bailey love! I can't wait to get home to snuggles and kisses. 5y

xicanti Bailey is wonderful! 5y

DGRachel @xicanti I'm a little biased, but I totally agree! 😘 5y

Suet624 😂 😂 😂 5y

batsy Take that, Shakespeare 😂😍 5y

72 likes9 comments

batsy

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

pick

I'm not quite sure how this went from a "It's going to be a slog!!" to a "I understand nothing but I love it!!" kind of play, even though I don't exactly love it, because there's lots to hate about how Cressida is used & misused & how these great men pontificate about utter rubbish like honour being more important than life. The play definitely belongs to Thersites, who is foul of mouth & steady of mind; to wit: "war & lechery confound all"! ⬇️

batsy Not a play I *liked*, but it was a play that held me in its strange spell. I was not bored & though much went over my head, I wanted to keep reading. Whatever I have to say about it barely scratches the surface of the way this play shifts & takes a turn into odd, dark corners. Thersites' cynicism & his attunement to the debased, absurd nature of humanity felt very modern to me, in a way. Very of the moment. #shakespearereadalong @merelybookish 5y

erzascarletbookgasm Awesome! 👏 5y

Chrissyreadit I have not read it but completely appreciate your review! 5y

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merelybookish Excellent! I also find it compelling. I have read ahead, in part because I am genuinely intrigued by what is going to happen. I'm also fascinated the tone, which feels like nothing I've ever read by Shakespeare before. It is the ugliness of humanity without the redeeming qualities. 5y

batsy @erzascarletbookgasm @Chrissyreadit Thank you! Lots to mull over in this one. 5y

batsy @merelybookish Thank you! And you're right about the tone and I also felt it's unlike anything else he's written. Except maybe Titus Andronicus, if I'm remembering it correctly...another dark play that I'm now keen to revisit 😅 5y

Graywacke Great review. And, it‘s encouraging! (I haven‘t started act iv yet) 5y

Amiable “Foul of mouth and steady of mind” — I know a few people who that would describe! 😀 5y

batsy @Graywacke Thank you! Interested in how you feel about it once it's over 🙂 5y

batsy @Amiable Ha, yes! Better than the other way around, I reckon 😆 5y

Centique Brilliant review Suba 😍👏👏👏 5y

batsy @Centique Thank so much, Paula! ❤️ 5y

batsy @Centique That should be thanks 😂 5y

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Rachbb3

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

so-so

I finished this up a little early because I'm leaving in a few days to Kentucky for a week and not sure if I'll have much reading time. I'll save my review for the #Shakespearereadalong discussions.
@merelybookish

merelybookish Im impressed it's a so-so! Look forward to hearing your thoughts! Have a good trip! 5y

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merelybookish @GingerAntics @readinginthedark @Graywacke @batsy @jewright @TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat @Rachbb3 @Sunraven @CoffeeNBooks @erzascarletbookgasm @ladyneverwhere @readordierachel @saresmoore @indoordame @aeeklund @MellieAntoinette @teainthelibrary @CSeydel @wanderinglynn @CSeydel 5y

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Act III of T&C. Troilus and Cressida (with some help from Panderus) confess their love to each other. Troilus is truer than true (I'm skeptical) and Cressida feels vulnerable. Ulysses pokes at Achilles's ego. Thersites brings some needed comedy. What did you make scene 1 with Paris, Helen & Panderus? Is this a love story for the ages? Is it all about sex? What is Panderus's deal? What if Cressida join the Greeks?
Thoughts #shakespearereadalong?

merelybookish @Gezemice @catebutler @wife @susannah @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @RestlessFickleBookHoarder @zsuzsanna_reads @Balibee146 @DGRachel @BiblioLitten @oOArankaOo @kathedron @rjsthumbelina @KatieanneF @InLibrisVeritas @rabbitprincess @Anna40 5y

Sunraven Pandarus is starting to feel like a groanworthy goofball to me — the kind of guy who tells Dad jokes — and I rather liked all the questionable wordplay at the beginning of the act. Paris and Helen are mildly annoying in their lovey-doveyness, and when T&C get together, I swear Shakespeare gets more coherent. Is it just me? 😉 Maybe I‘m just more in the Shakespeare zone this week. 5y

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Sunraven Also, quotes I liked:

Ulysses: Things in motion sooner catch the eye than what not stirs.
Patroclus: Those wounds heal ill that men do give themselves.
Thersites: ...unless the fiddler Apollo get his sinews to make catlings on.

(Just, I don‘t think I‘ve ever seen Apollo referred to in quite that manner. 😆) 5y

Lcsmcat @Sunraven Great quotes! I liked those too. 5y

batsy @Sunraven Some great quotes there. I also loved Thersites' "A plague of opinion!" which once again seems most apt for political discourse on social media in 2019 ? 5y

batsy I have to say that Thersites always steals the show and Pandarus strikes me a slimeball. I agree that the dense language of the play seemed "easiest" to read in the scene where T & C converse. T seems like an overeager dumpling whose ears I want to twist. Helen surprised me with her ability to enter into bawdy wordplay with Pandarus—which is interesting. And does anyone else want to tell Ulysses to zip it sometimes? ?? 5y

Sunraven @batsy From the second he showed up I wanted to tell Ulysses to shut his giant trap, but I think that‘s standard for him across everything I‘ve ever read him in. 😆 And to be clear, I think “slimeball” and “Dad jokes” can coexist, like maybe Pandarus is using vague ridiculousness as a smokescreen. 5y

jewright Are Troilus and Cressida married, or was that a vow only? I just don‘t trust Pandarus or Troilus. I feel badly for all the women in this play! 5y

batsy @Sunraven Yes, re: Pandarus it's certainly a possibility that the Dad jokes thing is kind of an act, though at the moment I'm hard pressed to figure out what he's trying to gain besides being a meddler 😂 5y

GingerAntics Last I checked, Cressida was completely ignoring Troilus. Now, all of a sudden, everyone knows they‘re mad for each other? What? I think she‘s going to end up with the Greeks and lord only knows how that will turn out. I‘m still holding out hope that Ajax dies in the next act, though. That could be fun. 5y

Graywacke @batsy @Sunraven just finished and my main thought is enough of these exhausting long speeches by Ulysses. 5y

Graywacke @jewright not sure T&C are married, except by Pandarus‘s mock official-ness... but it seems something was consummated. ( @Sunraven @batsy @GingerAntics I thought T&C were giving off some heat. ) 5y

GingerAntics @Graywacke my understanding is that they‘re some version of “hand fast.” It‘s not legal, but it allows them to consummate in a socially acceptable manner. Where was the heat? Did I miss it? It‘s hard to tell with this play. I could easily have missed it. 5y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Here here! Ulysses strains my patience. 5y

Graywacke @GingerAntics hmm. Maybe just me. I felt some electricity between them. 5y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat 🍻... 😐 5y

Graywacke @GingerAntics I should add it‘s worth comparing T&C‘s relationship with that of Paris and Helen one scene earlier. They‘re quite different. (edited) 5y

Rachbb3 Paris and Helen are annoying, Troilus and Cressida seemed forced, and the long speeches are exhausting. I'm a little cynical this week. I think I'm at the point where somebody needs to do something, anything! 😛 5y

Sunraven @Graywacke: Yeah, at some point during this act I was like “Oh, are Cressida and Helen foil characters?” Like, there‘s an obvious contrast between the Trojans refusing to let Helen go but casually trading Cressida away.

@Rachbb3: This act does feel like preparation for action and I agree, I‘m ready for some Happenings. (edited) 5y

Sunraven @GingerAntics: From the beginning I suspected Cressida of hiding her crush on Troilus, so I wonder if everyone else was pretty much doing the same thing. Like, “Right right, you hate him, mm-hmm.”

@batsy: I‘m not sure what Pandarus is doing, either, though I wonder whether he might just be trying to play all sides at once, being one of those nosy people who just wants everyone to like him. 5y

GingerAntics @Sunraven oh, that is a possibility. This play is throwing me for a total mental loop. Things I would normally notice I‘m just missing with this one. @Graywacke you‘re not the only one. I‘m really struggling with this one. I‘m feeling really stupid with this one. 5y

merelybookish @GingerAntics @sunraven Didn't Cressida admit to liking Troilus in the first act but recognizing the need of keeping it secret? She knew that once she admitted that she liked him she would lose her power. 5y

merelybookish @Sunraven That's interesting to think of Helen a d Cressida as foils. Also as pawns and spoils of war. Is the suggestion that Paris and Cressida were intended for each other at some point? Also great lines! 5y

merelybookish @Rachbb3 Haha. Yes, lots of talk! I expect bad things when they do start happening tho. 😬 5y

GingerAntics @merelybookish did she? That does sound somewhat familiar. I could have taken that wrong that she didn‘t want to be with any man because she would lose her autonomy. 5y

Sunraven @merelybookish @GingerAntics: She did have a bit where she said she had to keep her love for him secret, yeah, right at the end of Act I, Scene ii, though I was like “Girrrrl, you doth protest too much” through the whole conversation right before it. 😆 She just seemed way too determined to display that she thought Troilus was beneath her standards. 5y

GingerAntics @Sunraven 🤣😂🤣 okay, I‘ll go back and see if I can pick that up. 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I just thought Pandarus was pandering to everyone. I assumed the word came from that character. 🤷‍♀️ 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa Or vise versa 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Sunraven I like the idea of the ladies being mirror reflections/foils, just a big difference in outcome depending on status. 5y

batsy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa 💡!! Hahaha that's probably it and I never even thought about it 😂 5y

batsy @Graywacke @Lcsmcat Oh, good! I'm not the only one. Here's to Ulysses never speaking again 🥂 🤫 5y

merelybookish @batsy @graywacke @Lcsmcat I feel like Ulysses is the original mansplainer! 5y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish 🤣🤣🤣 5y

batsy @merelybookish 😆😆 5y

Graywacke @batsy ( @Lcsmcat ) 🥂 🥺😐🤫 5y

Graywacke @merelybookish ( @batsy @Lcsmcat ) 🙂 or Adam... 5y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Adam didn‘t mansplain so much as victim blame. “She made me do it!” 5y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat hmm yeah... and he doesn‘t drone on like Ulysses (that‘s Moses) 5y

Sunraven @Riveted_Reader_Melissa: I think Wikipedia agrees with you — it says Pandarus is totally related to pandering, but that pandering was actually named after him! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandarus 5y

erzascarletbookgasm I don‘t see this as a love story. Paris and Helen; T & C; these relationships are all about lust. And Pandarus is sleazy! 5y

merelybookish Pandarus is a sleazy slimeball with this "complimental assault." ? He gives new meaning to creepy uncle! I feel he's after something. Maybe some security on the Trojan side since his brother switched to the enemy's camp? @sunraven @batsy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Graywacke @erzascarletbookgasm 5y

merelybookish @erzascarletbookgasm I agree it's more lust than love. None of the men seem to act with disinterest. Everyone seems to want to gain something from this war. If a woman has value, she is worth something. 5y

Sunraven @erzascarletbookgasm @merelybookish It‘s interesting (and admittedly aggravating) to me how often people think lust/attachment and love are the same thing, though. People are always saying things like “S/he did [insert harmful thing] for love!” and “Love makes you stupid!” and a lot of the time I want to say, “That person isn‘t in love; they‘re ‘in‘ desire or fear.” But I imagine it‘s harder to differentiate when the people around one don‘t. 😁 5y

DGRachel After Act 1, I planned to bail, but I saw @batsy's Goodreads review earlier today and decided to keep going. I've now read Act II and Act III and I have to say I still don't have a clue what the point of this play is. I have yet to encounter a single character that I like, though, so I'm definitely missing *something*. 😩 5y

batsy @DGRachel This is terrible to say, but I think I just relate a lot to the cynical and awful Thersites ?? who is watching this pageantry of politics and sees the artificial shell for what it is. His constant refrain of "war and lechery" just feels like how I feel looking at social media and our current political mess. I'm surprised that I didn't hate this play because I really expected to after the first act! 5y

Graywacke @batsy - your review was great encouragement. I think Thersites is our reminder that we‘re supposed think about the problems in the story, and not focus on the story by itself. ... But now I‘m imagining a Thersites on social media. !! And now I think the world needs a Thersites‘s fb page. 🙂 (@DGRachel ) 5y

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ladyneverwhere

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Woefully behind on my #bfcr2 check-ins. I've been out of town for a wedding and not on social media much. I've managed to drink plenty of water and walk a lot, which is not my goal of more structured fitness classes but oh well 🤷‍♀️. Thanks for checking in @wanderinglynn

I'll be spending the fourth catching up on my #shakespearereadalong with Troilus and Cressida
@merelybookish

wanderinglynn Way to go on your water and walking! 🙌 It may not be what you intended to do, but it's still great progress! 5y

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batsy

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Can't deny that I love Cressida.

Also, Cressida is me to the cute barista I've been crushing on for months without ever smiling or attempting a conversation beyond, "Thank you" and then slithering away like some swamp thing ????????‍♀️

#ShakespeareReadAlong @merelybookish

Severnmeadows 😊 brilliant! 5y

Cathythoughts You‘ll hVe to take the plunge & say hi to this cute barista 😬it‘s the only way 😍 5y

erzascarletbookgasm This makes me smile! 5y

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batsy @Severnmeadows @erzascarletbookgasm 😁 5y

batsy @Cathythoughts Oh Cathy, I'll just hide behind my book 🙈📚 5y

Ms_T 😍 5y

Tanisha_A Yes, you have to say beyond thank you! I agree with @Cathythoughts! ☺️ 5y

batsy @Ms_T 🥰 5y

batsy @Tanisha_A 😅😅 5y

kspenmoll This makes me smile! 5y

batsy @kspenmoll 😁 5y

readordierachel Ha! Love this post. 5y

Centique I love this 😂 Especially slithering away like a swamp thing. I‘d probably totter away like a metal droid! We‘re all #monsters and #aliens when it comes to talking to cute boys. 😂 5y

batsy @readordierachel 😁❤️ 5y

batsy @Centique It's ridiculous, and as a grown ass adult I am thoroughly embarrassed 😂 I can have a perfectly decent conversation with all of the other staff and when he's in the vicinity I'm extraterrestrial 👾 5y

merelybookish Yes to Cressida! ❤️ Yes YES to chatting up the barrista! 💪 5y

batsy @merelybookish I love her so far and we know she's being set up for a fall 😡 5y

RohitSawant @batsy Love this! I can so relate to being an extraterrestrial in that situation 👽 I think the vibe I broadcast is Mr. Darcy if you ran over his dog. It's weird, when you have a crush on someone in school/college, pretty much everyone has an inkling, but as an adult, it's so insulated, if that makes sense, which isn't all bad considering you don't have to deal with that *one* friend who makes it his or her mission to embarrass you. 5y

merelybookish @batsy oh I know! You know she is screwed. Unlike you, she would be much better NOT talking to Troilus. 😉 5y

batsy @rohit-sawant The Mr Darcy dog sentence made me snort 😂😂 I understand about what you mean! It is an insulated experience as an adult; we're really in our own bubble unlike school/college. For an introvert I feel like it's both a blessing and a curse 😆 5y

batsy @merelybookish Hahaha! Nicely played. For Cressida's sake at the very least I must utter a few intelligible words to the hot barista. 5y

Reggie Oh, my swamp thing, lol. It was Buddha right(?) that said-There is no lotus flower without the mud. 5y

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Rachbb3

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

I've said this a couple times to this book. 😂😉😊

#Shakespearereadalong
@merelybookish

GingerAntics 🤣😂🤣 so glad it‘s not just me 5y

Rachbb3 @GingerAntics No, you have company. 😆 5y

GingerAntics Oh good. 😆 5y

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Ddzmini The sequentialness of words 😝🙌🏽📖😋 5y

wanderinglynn 😂😂😂 so true with this one! 5y

merelybookish Perfect! 😂😂 We can handle any Shakespeare after this one!! 5y

batsy 🤣 5y

readordierachel Lol! I feel you. 5y

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Sunraven

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

My first #24B4Monday: Read for nearly 8 hours. Started three books, finished one, made progress on another. Got derailed quite a lot, but I‘m okay with how I did, considering current stress levels and mental health status.

Also met lots of new Littens and grew my TBR list, which are both good things. 😁 Looking forward to trying again next month!

And a thank you to our lovely hosts, @TheReadingMermaid @Andrew65 @jb72 !

BeansPage You are most welcome dear. Thank you for participating and congratulations on your first read-a-thon with us! We look forward to seeing you again next month ❤️😘🤗❤️ 5y

Andrew65 A great time for your first readathvon, 👏👏👏. Thanks for taking part and I hope to see you next month. 😊 5y

8 likes2 comments

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

The internet edition wasn‘t helping me, so I picked this copy up at a used bookstore yesterday. It‘s not much more help. But there is one hint. Some scholars think the play was originally a tragedy performed for a private audience which was then expanded by the addition of the prologue and epilogue and purported to be a comedy. Definitely a problem play! #shakespearereadalong @merelybookish

GingerAntics There is a theory that it was a private play for a group of lawyers because of all the rhetoric. Yeah. I read that, too, but there is other evidence that this theory isn‘t accurate. 5y

merelybookish Even the reason why it's a problem play seems to be up for debate! Genre, message, language. It's got a lot of problems going on! 5y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish @GingerAntics It‘s got ALL the problems. 😂 5y

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GingerAntics @Lcsmcat @merelybookish I‘m totally game for that assessment. It‘s also a problem because I can‘t seem to stay on schedule. See, SO many problems. 5y

GingerAntics @Lcsmcat @merelybookish oh my god this play is painful. 😖 5y

erzascarletbookgasm A wise move to get a physical copy! I‘m struggling reading online! 5y

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merelybookish @GingerAntics @readinginthedark @Gezemice @CSeydel @Graywacke @catebutler @ladyneverwhere @aeeklund @MellieAntoinette @jewright @teainthelibrary @indoordame @wife @susannah @Rachbb3 @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Lcsmcat @saresmoore @batsy @readordierachel @erzascarletbookgasm @zsuzsanna_reads @Balibee146 5y

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

"Cry Trojans Cry"
Act 2 of T&C! We meet Thersites who berates Ajax. The Trojans debate the value of keeping Helen. Achilles still won't fight and Ajax's pride is used to set him up. No Cressida but Cassandra makes a dramatic appearance.
Thoughts #shakespearereadalong folks? What do you make of Thersites? Did Troilus convince you that Helen is worth the fight? Do you pity Ajax? Does the play feel cynical to you? This act any easier to read?

Leftcoastzen Great image! 5y

merelybookish I continue to find the language challenging but also kind of amazing. Thersites has lots of good insults. I was also struck by Paris's line "I would have the soil of her fair rape." ? Anyone have thoughts on what that means? Any other lines you want to discuss? 5y

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merelybookish @DGRachel @CoffeeNBooks @RestlessFickleBookHoarder @InLibrisVeritas @Faibka @wanderinglynn @BiblioLitten @TheBookHippie @oOArankaOo @kathedron @KatieanneF @rabbitprincess @rjsthumbelina @Anna40 5y

merelybookish @Leftcoastzen It's by the artist S.S.E Cowperthaite. A stunning image of Cassandra. 5y

Lcsmcat The full line is “I would have the soil of her fair rape wiped off in honorable keeping her.” I think it‘s the old idea of making a woman marry her rapist to “stay pure.” So if he keeps her, she‘s ok, but if he sends her back to her husband, she‘s a whore. Not agreeing, just interpreting. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 5y

Lcsmcat Thersites does have some amazing insults, but I had trouble making any sense out of that scene, and my edition was no help. Neither was the Arden production I watched, which dropped that scene entirely! 5y

TheBookHippie “....the hot passion of distempered blood" why young men can‘t be trusted ?. Love the image. I‘m using resources to read the language ...it‘s a hot mess. I now have gotten the summary so I‘m going to go back and reread until this point! I love the challenge the language is indeed challenging and intriguing. I love learning and this is a challenge but it‘s a fun challenge! 5y

merelybookish @Lcsmcat Thanks! The "logic" makes sense within the context. Poor Helen, her whole value is up for debate in that scene, less a woman than a prize. 5y

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat I had trouble with that whole bit! Reminded me of the poor girls who were expelled in high school for getting pregnant the boy could stay. HOWEVER if she gave the baby to adoption she could stay ...WHAT?!?! 5y

merelybookish @Lcsmcat Do you mean scene I? My main takeaway is that Thersites thinks they are all idiots but especially Ajax! And he sees how the Greek leaders are using them. Interesting it was cut. But it does seem a bit like a throwaway scene. 5y

merelybookish @TheBookHippie I feel the same! Definitely challenging but it's fun to tackle. Apparently this play as more made-up words than any other! 5y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish Poor Helen indeed! She was definitely chattel in this version. I just read a poem by Rupert Brooke, Menelaus and Helen, where he says “white Helen bears Child on legitimate child, becomes a scold, Haggard with virtue.” after Menelaus “rescues” her. She can‘t win! 5y

TheBookHippie @merelybookish of course it does !!! Ha. 5y

Graywacke I found this act great fun, and easier to read (but not easy). Thersites is a terrific creation, the classical bad-attitude subversive soldier becomes a Shakespeare fool. Brilliant. And he‘s still subversive. And then the bard has fun with Helen‘s reputation, with Cassandra... 5y

Graywacke And finally he spoofs the wooing chapter in the Iliad...an Achilles that hides in his tent! All the asides, and poor Ajax. Shakespeare doesn‘t even let him give Achilles his meaningless weird spiel. The bard just edits it out - Homeric commentary. So... I‘m engaged now. (edited) 5y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat they dropped Thersites? Hmm. Maybe they didn‘t get the humor... 5y

Rachbb3 Thersites didn't really have a kind word for anyone. Lol. I really didn't feel bad for Ajax, he speaks of Achilles's pride when his own is just as bad. I really don't have any opinions of Helen yet. For "soil of her fair rape" my version says: i.e., the abduction of her (who is so fair) ??‍♀️ 5y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie on the language, this is a tough one. I found it was hard to both get the gist of a section and also actually understand each line. It was almost like I had make a choice...because word by word I would get lost. 5y

Graywacke If it helps - the embassy to Achilles is book 9 of The Iliad. (The main event spoofed here with Achilles hiding in his tent) 5y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I may need to reread The Illiad along with this. I haven‘t read it since 9th grade. 5y

jewright I think I have my new favorite Shakespeare insult, “Thou stool for a witch.”—Ajax. 5y

jewright My version describes Therisites as “a deformed and scurrilous Grecian.” I haven‘t read this play before, so I don‘t know, but is this his only entrance in the play? So far, there are a lot of characters and whom I think is going to be important keeps changing. (edited) 5y

Lcsmcat @jewright I think he comes back connected to Achilles, but I‘m not sure. 5y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Do you have a favorite translation of the Iliad? I have the Fitzgerald, but I could check the library if there‘s a better one. 5y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I‘ve only read Fagles. (Chapman would be appropriate here) 5y

Graywacke @jewright that witch‘s stool insult 😂 5y

merelybookish @Graywacke Thanks for all the Homeric context! It's been.a while since I've read the Iliad as well @Lcsmcat And I agree about how to read. I just tried to keep going and not stumble too much on particular words! 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @merelybookish I‘m finding reading and then listening to the Librivox version read by a group of volunteers helps with understanding the larger scene when I get lost on the lines. 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa For me, this play couldn‘t have come up at a better time... a riff of the Helen story just popped up in its twisted Pratchett Discworld version, and I reread some of my myths after Circe with the #BBBBC book club earlier this month. I‘ll have to pick up her Achilles soon, while I‘m trying to recall my high school Iliad and Odyssey stories.

Circe

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Lcsmcat And I agree, that‘s exactly how I read that line...if he keeps her and they marry, she‘s pure again. Otherwise he‘s just a rapists/abductor depending on your version. 5y

jewright @Lcsmcat I like the Fitzgerald one. 5y

Lcsmcat @jewright Good to know. 5y

batsy What @Graywacke said! Thersites is compelling. His commentary on what exactly he thinks of "leaders" & politics in general is way too relatable in 2019. Especially with how they mock Ajax but pander to him for the moment to lead them. I agree that while still challenging, the play has become a lot more interesting. The language is quite a feat & pretty amazing ?? I continue to see Troilus as a twit, especially for not taking Cassandra seriously. 5y

batsy @merelybookish My edition interprets the "rape" in that line as the "carrying off". So I'm wondering if the usage of the word rape differs slightly from our modern understanding. Regardless, the context is pretty clear about women as property and how the "right" kind of male owner/ownership colours her virtue and reputation ? 5y

Graywacke @batsy these are just great comments about 2019 and the perception of women. (Shakespeare was likely commenting on late Elizabethan politics - at least the editor of my edition thinks so. His view on women was - well, worth its own discussion.) 5y

Sunraven Joining the readalong belatedly, here I go! 😁 Some randomish thoughts:

I don‘t feel sorry for Ajax, as it seems like his own fault if he gives in to the false praise, but I do feel a bit sorry for Helen, the way she‘s talked about like an object to bolster a bunch of warmongers‘ pride. I did like seeing Hector arguing the (I thought) logical side, that they should give up Helen; did he also do that in the Iliad? It‘s been too long... 5y

Sunraven I especially liked Hector‘s “Pleasure and revenge have ears more deaf than adders to the voice of any true decision.”

Also, last year I read The Song of Achilles, which is influencing how I‘m interpreting this play. Achilles hiding in his tent here isn‘t that far off from how he seemed in the Madeline Miller version, I feel like... 5y

GingerAntics This act felt like we were in man land, taking a romp with a bunch of over inflated egos. For someone who was so desperately in love with Cressida in the last act, he spent a lot of time not even mentioning her in this act. I‘m not sure I buy that he‘s in love with her at all. At least not the way he claimed he was in the last act. So far, this play has been painful. Just something else to add to the “problem play” column. 5y

GingerAntics @batsy @Graywacke I agree that the discussion of leaders is easily relevant today. Sadly, I think the mentality toward women in this act is also amazingly relevant to today. 5y

Graywacke @Sunraven can‘t remember if Hector criticized Paris...Achilles hiding in his tent is a humorous exaggeration of his self-imposed isolation. 5y

merelybookish @Graywacke @batsy I enjoyed the part where Thersites tells everyone why they are a fool. Everyone had a reason except Patrocles. 😆 And you're right. He is our character speaking truth to power. Also @GingerAntics posted a quote a while back saying as long as there is war, T&C will continue to be relevant. 5y

merelybookish @jewright Yes, a lot of characters and presumably Cressida is important but she didn't show up at all in this act! 5y

merelybookish @batsy Troilus is a twit. 😂😂 5y

merelybookish @Rachbb3 Yes, Ajax does seem like a buffoon as well! He is getting manipulated but he's driven by vanity and jealousy so not exactly noble virtues. And yeah, Thersites such doesn't like him! (Or anyone else.) 5y

merelybookish @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Great timing! How do all the versions hang together? Have you read Song of Achilles by same author of Circe? She gives a much more sympathetic version of Achilles and Patrocles than we are getting here. 5y

merelybookish @Sunraven Welcome! 😀 I don't recall about Hector in the Iliad. But my edition noted his quick change of heart at the end of scene 2 is one of the many inconsistencies in the play, in that after arguing quite forcibly about ending the war, he seems to change his mind quite suddenly. Also, I thought of Song of Achilles too, which I don't remember much of except Patrocles was portrayed with a lot more sympathy! 5y

merelybookish @GingerAntics Yeah I couldn't tell if Cressida was part of his impetus for wanting to stay in the war. So he could fight and gain honor, to impress her.🤷 (Sorry you're finding the play so painful.) 5y

merelybookish @jewright I liked "clotpole" for idiot. ? 5y

Riveted_Reader_Melissa @merelybookish No I haven‘t read that one yet, but I really liked Circe so I‘m hoping to read it this month. Discworld‘s take was hilarious, although he altered the story somewhat, until the battle ended years later, “Helen” had a bunch of children, was middle aged, had lost her figure, and had the beginnings of a mustache and wasn‘t the vision they‘d all been motivated with throughout. It was funny and actually more realistic. 😂 (edited) 5y

GingerAntics @merelybookish oh, I hadn‘t thought of that as a motivating factor in his switch in thinking. Hm. Good point. He seemed to not want to go to war because of her in act 1, but perhaps he‘s switched tactics in act 2. 5y

GingerAntics @merelybookish @jewright don‘t you just love Shakespearean insults?! 5y

GingerAntics @Sunraven I like that quote about pleasure and revenge as well. I haven‘t figured out how I want to caption it, so I haven‘t posted that one yet. 5y

Sunraven @merelybookish: Totally had that thought about Cressida not showing up at all ... I kept thinking, is this just a rehash of the bits of the Iliad Shakespeare wants to make fun of? Why is it named like it‘s about these two characters when one of them barely shows up so far? 😆 5y

Sunraven @Riveted_Reader_Melissa: You‘re definitely making me want to read the Discworld version now. 😁

@Graywacke: My high school impression of Achilles‘ behavior was that he was pretty much acting like a selfish baby, so Shakespeare‘s interpretation feels pretty in line with my pre-Song-of-Achilles impression. 🤣 5y

Graywacke @Sunraven 🙂 He _is_ such a selfish baby... 5y

Sunraven @Graywacke: Ah, selfish babies who are also incredibly overpowered ... The literal stuff of which legends are made. 😉 5y

53 likes57 comments

TheBookHippie

Troilus and Cressida (Critical) | William Shakespeare

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 #shakespearereadalong

LOOK?!?!?! Bahaha THE PROBLEM PLAYS....no kidding 🙄😳😭🤣📖❤️

Lcsmcat 😂 5y

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat “the main problem is they‘re not funny....” 🤣🤣🤣😳 5y

merelybookish Ha! 😂🤣 5y

DGRachel Perfect!! 😂 5y

TheBookHippie @DGRachel seriously !!! 5y

46 likes5 comments

merelybookish @InLibrisVeritas @GingerAntics @readinginthedark @erzascarletbookgasm @ladyneverwhere @catebutler @MellieAntoinette @batsy @Lcsmcat @Susannah @Balibee146 @Faibka @readordierachel @Rachbb3 @wanderinglynn @BiblioLitten @TheBookHippie @saresmoore 5y

Troilus and Cressida (Critical) | William Shakespeare

This is from the introductory essay by Anthony B. Dawson to The New Cambridge edition of Troilus and Cressida. Not meant to discourage, just wanted to confirm that our sense of this play as more difficult is not unfounded.
Dawson argues that much of the play is about interpretation and how events get repeated and interpreted and then shaped into a story. Something to consider.
So patience! and #noshameinsparknotes. 🙂 #shakespearereadalong

merelybookish @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @IndoorDame @teainthelibrary @oOArankaOo @Gezemice @KatieanneF @CoffeeNBooks @rabbitprincess @Graywacke @aeeklund @rjsthumbelina @Wife @zsuzsanna_reads @DGRachel @CSeydel @anna40 @kathedron @jewright @RestlessFickleBookHoarder 5y

catebutler Thank you for the reminder! Whilst reading this play, it reminded me how difficult and yet rewarding reading Shakespeare can be! 5y

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Graywacke Well, I feel a little better ☺️ 5y

batsy That's a relief 😅 5y

jewright I always feel as if I have to read a play several times before I can grasp a lot of the play. There‘s just too much going on to read it only once. (edited) 5y

Rachbb3 Yep, that's it. 😆 5y

Lcsmcat This is a difficult one. I‘ve reread and also watched a production on YouTube to try to grasp it. And Shakespeare isn‘t usually difficult for me! 5y

DGRachel This definitely makes me feel better about my “huh?” moment today. 😊 5y

TheBookHippie Phew ...🤣🤣 5y

merelybookish @catebutler Yes for sure! And this one seems to be particularly challenging! 5y

merelybookish @Graywacke @batsy @thebookhippie It's not us. It's him. 😛 5y

merelybookish @jewright Oh yes, I agree! Initially I'm just trying to grasp the plot and who's who. But I am usually able to glean more on a first read through than I managed with this one. 5y

merelybookish @Rachbb3 Makes it sound really fun, eh! 😆 5y

merelybookish @Lcsmcat Is the YouTube production any good? (I think we are learning why this play is obscure! 🤨) 5y

merelybookish @DGRachel Not you at all! Apparently we just chose a difficult play! 5y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish I‘ve only watched the first act, but it helped a lot. 5y

TheBookHippie @merelybookish I feel better now! 5y

readordierachel So glad it's not just me! I've been scratching my head and rereading sections. 🤔 5y

erzascarletbookgasm Ha! I‘ve read Act 1 now but so much has gone over my head. It doesn‘t help I‘m not reading from a physical book (it‘s just me). That‘s why I didn‘t know what to say at the first discussion thread. Appreciate reading all the comments, though. I may need to reread the Act. 5y

batsy @merelybookish @Lcsmcat The intro in my Signet edition points out that even "very talented and very cynical" amateur actors would struggle with performing this play. The levels of irony to be conveyed in the performance would need seasoned actors, which I found quite an interesting point. 5y

batsy @erzascarletbookgasm I find that for Shakespeare (and plays in general, mostly) I too need a physical copy. 5y

merelybookish @batsy Nobody gets it. 😂 (But I did read of a recent production in NYC that got.good reviews so it must be possible to make it work!) 5y

merelybookish @batsy @erzascarletbookgasm I feel your ebook pain. I started on Kindle but have found a hard copy at the library. But I think the play is challenging to read in either format. 5y

52 likes1 stack add24 comments

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

I think I‘m going to need David Bruce‘s retelling in prose, just to make sure I have the slightest clue what‘s going on here.
#shakespearereadalong #Shakespeare #TroilusandCressida

21 likes

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Interesting
#shakespearereadalong #Shakespeare #TroilusandCressida

20 likes

merelybookish @InLibrisVeritas @erzascarletbookgasm @GingerAntics @readinginthedark @ladyneverwhere @catebutler @MellieAntoinette @batsy @Lcsmcat @zsuzsanna_reads @Balibee146 @Faibka @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @wanderinglynn @BiblioLitten @TheBookHippie 5y

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

"All is fair in love and war." Act I, lots of plotting and deception in personal and military realms.
Troilus is in love with Cressida. Cressida is not letting on her feelings. Panderus is playing the go-between. (What's he trying to gain by this match?) We learn about the princes of Troy. Speeches from the Greeks. A battle is set between Hector and Ajax to claim the most virtuous woman. Love and war are entangled. Thoughts? #shakespearereadalong

merelybookish One plot point I missed on my first read was that Cressida's father has switched to the Greek side. So maybe Panderus hopes a match between C & T will protect him? I did like Cressida and found her so smart and aware of how deception is her best protection. Women are clearly pawns. 5y

merelybookish @readordierachel @saresmoore @IndoorDame @teainthelibrary @oOArankaOo @Gezemice @Rachbb3 @Mtroiano @KatieanneF @CoffeeNBooks @rabbitprincess @Graywacke @rjsthumbelina @wife @susannah @DGRachel @CSeydel @Anna40 @kathedron @jewright @RestlessFickleBookHoarder 5y

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merelybookish Illustration by Henry Corbould (circa 1825) from Act 1, scene 2. Cressida and Panderus watching the warriors file in from battle. 5y

merelybookish Do you like any of the characters? Is anyone acting on the up and up? What did you make of things on the Greek side? The Trojan side? Are there problems in both? We hear about a lot of key characters: Helen, Achilles's, Ajax. How do they come across? 5y

merelybookish @aeeklund Sorry I didn't respond sooner but yes, you're welcome to join us!! 5y

wanderinglynn Well, I now get why this is considered one of his “problem plays.” The first scene almost starts off like one of his comedies, like Much Ado, with a light tone & banter between Troilus & Pandarus. But then it switches to a more tragic feel with the war, clearly following the plotline of the Iliad. 5y

merelybookish @wanderinglynn I'm intrigued by the "problem play" designation as well. It feels a bit like R&J to me. There are larger, darker forces at work that will affect this love story. Also Troilus struck me as kind of clueless, like Romeo. 5y

TheBookHippie Echoing the problematic play theory. Although I am intrigued!!! Side funny note when reading Pandarus my mind always says pandering 🤣. This reminds me reading Ulysses a little bit. I‘m not partial to anyone yet I do however like that it has me looking up history :). I do like Cressida. Anxious to see how she plots!!! I think she‘s pretty keen to the goings on. Women are always pawns!!!Love the illustration! (edited) 5y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish I noted a parallel to R&J also, where Troilus was going on about how weak he was because he was in love. 5y

Lcsmcat Lots of exposition in this act too, which is to be expected, but not as much fun to read. 5y

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat Yes!!! You‘re right! I didn‘t catch that! 5y

Graywacke The biggest problem I had with this play was following all those long Greek speeches. 😓 I‘m beat 5y

Graywacke @wanderinglynn @TheBookHippie @merelybookish The Jonathan Crewe intro talks a lot about why it‘s considered a problem play - how it undermines itself and the Iliad with the line “and that‘s the quarrel” 5y

Graywacke @TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat @merelybookish Cressida is my favorite character too. Troilus is all young and devoted and love sick, and yet she‘s playing the game. “Achievement is command; ungained, beseech.” The contrast between his immaturity and her maturity is very entertaining. 5y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Agreed! She‘s way ahead of him at this point. I hope she doesn‘t cave. 5y

Rachbb3 @Graywacke Yes! They speeches were so long! This play definitely has the tragedy feel. I'm waiting for it to pick up a bit. I like Cressida and Ulysses. 5y

jewright @Lcsmcat I really thought this reminded me a great deal of Romeo‘s complaining at the beginning of Romeo and Juliet. 5y

merelybookish @TheBookHippie I think there is a connection between pander and Pandarus, so you're not off. It was in a note somewhere that Elizabethan audiences would have gotten the meaning.
5y

merelybookish @Graywacke @Rachbb3 @lcsmcatThose speeches were brutal. I didn't even really follow the first two. At least once Ulysses I could get what he was talking about! 😲 More dialogue please moving forward! 5y

TheBookHippie @merelybookish I must‘ve read that at some point ?? 🤣🤣🤣 if not it seriously makes so much sense! 5y

merelybookish @Graywacke That's interesting! I kept reading that it's considered a problem play but hadn't ready why yet. I figured something about the plot doesn't work. I wonder when that line appears. 5y

batsy I hope to catch up with Act 1 very soon! 😬🙈 5y

Graywacke @merelybookish It‘s in prologue. The full line is “The ravished Helen, Menelaus‘s queen, With wanton Paris sleeps, and that‘s the quarrel.” This sets the tone, undermining anything serious going on in terms of purpose of the war and so justifies the disinterest of Troilus and others. It makes it a play exposing the leadership instead of honoring them...well, maybe (edited) 5y

GingerAntics Finally starting this. I‘m so sorry. The last two weeks of my life have been insane and entirely life changing. One day I‘ll explain that better. For now, I‘m catching up. 5y

ladyneverwhere So far I'm really liking Cressida and I'm enjoying reading the language, even when the speeches get to be a bit much 😂 5y

merelybookish @Graywacke Thanks for sharing that! It seems quite modern really, to assume flawed leadership or to question the honor of war. 5y

merelybookish @GingerAntics Understand! I hope the changes are good ones! 5y

merelybookish @ladyneverwhere Yeah those speeches. 😒 5y

merelybookish @batsy We'll be here! 😀 5y

GingerAntics @merelybookish they are, just so much to take in. It‘s been eating up my reading time though. 5y

GingerAntics @Graywacke that‘s why I got from that line, and that‘s also what the essay at the beginning of my edition suggests as well. It said that this play is more a satire than a comedy. He‘s poking fun at the leadership of both sides. 5y

Graywacke @GingerAntics usually takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to read an act (taking in the notes and rereading confusing parts, etc). This took me over two hours. But...Homer liked long speeches too, so the Bard is at least consistent there. @ladyneverwhere @Rachbb3 @Lcsmcat @merelybookish 5y

GingerAntics @Graywacke I‘m with you on that. This play seems so much harder than many of the others we‘ve read and I wasn‘t able to find an audio play of it from the library which doesn‘t help either. The long speeches do seem standard for the ancient history genre. 5y

batsy I just finished Act 1 and it does seem so much more cynical and dark than I expected! So far I like Cressida a lot, as well. But Troilus seems a bit vapid and the political speeches have an air of bleakness about them. Even Ulysses, who is meant to be a strategist, comes off as a cynical and pompous blowhard. It makes me want to learn more about the circumstances of how the play came to be. 5y

merelybookish @batsy You're right about Ulysses. I always want to like him but I read something else recently (Circe maybe?) where I ended up finding him kind of an ass. In this play, he seems too schemey to be likable. 5y

DGRachel I finally finished Act I, using a free ebook, since I'm at work, so I'm lacking the footnotes. @GingerAntics, I found T&C on Hoopla audio there. Honestly, I am lost. I have very little idea of what I've read. My brain started tuning out with the long winded speeches, but that may also be the migraine. :/ I'll have to listen to Act I again before moving on. Not sure what I think of Cressida, yet, but Troilus made me roll my eyes. 5y

GingerAntics @DGRachel my library doesn‘t have hoopla, but I found it on a podcast. That could be the migraine or it could be the play itself. I had to use the retelling in prose version. There is a thing in the front that says you can make copies for educational purposes forever, so I could probably make a PDF of it and send it to you. I felt like it made more sense that way. 5y

DGRachel @GingerAntics That‘s very kind of you. I think I remember seeing a prose retelling in Amazon for a couple of dollars, so maybe I‘ll invest in that. 😊 5y

GingerAntics @DGRachel that could be the same one. David Bruice‘s retellings are only ever a few bucks and they are totally worth it. 5y

57 likes40 comments

Graywacke

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

She‘s wondering why I distracted her from her hedgehog with one of those things I stare at. I‘m wondering how Briseis ever became Cressida. Maybe I‘ll find out within. About to start.

#shakespearereadalong

64 likes

DGRachel

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Enjoying a warm breeze on my front porch and getting started on the next #ShakespeareReadalong selection. 😎

ephemeralwaltz Lovely photo 5y

86 likes1 comment

Rachbb3

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Hidden among many many Shakespeare plays is Troilus and Cressida. Phew. I didn't think I was going to find a copy. 😎
Used bookstores rock!

@merelybookish
#Shakespearereadalong

Crazeedi Nice collection! 5y

merelybookish Lucky! I struck out at my used bookstores. When I asked the saleswoman, she was skeptical that it was even a Shakespeare play. 😆 Definitely one of his more obscure works! 5y

Rachbb3 @merelybookish 😂 5y

readordierachel Score! 5y

Lcsmcat @merelybookish Oh my! 5y

72 likes5 comments

merelybookish @ladyneverwhere @catebutler @MellieAntoinette @batsy @Lcsmcat @zsuzsanna_reads @Balibee146 @Faibka @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @wanderinglynn @BiblioLitten @TheBookHippie @oOArankaOo @Gezemice @Rachbb3 @Mtroiano @KatieanneF @CoffeeNBooks @rabbitprincess @Graywacke @rjsthumbelina 5y

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Hey everyone! Just a reminder we'll be launching our #shakespearereadalong discussion of Act I of Troilus and Cressida this Sunday. If you'd like to join, comment and I'll add you to the list.
I hope everyone has located a copy. (After striking out at two used bookstores, I resorted to the Kindle.)
See you back here soon!
@readinginthedark @GingerAntics

merelybookish @wife @Susannah @DGRachel @cseydel @anna40 @readordierachel @saresmoore @kathedron @RestlessFickleBookHoarder @IndoorDame @jewright @erzascarletbookgasm @teainthelibrary @InLibrisVeritas 5y

rjsthumbelina Gonna try to get back into the readalong for this one, since I've never read it! Sometimes I find re-reading Shakespeare to be really difficult. Is that just me? 5y

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erzascarletbookgasm Thanks, I‘m still looking for a copy! Will let you know if I‘m able to join. 5y

Graywacke My library claimed today they have a copy waiting for me. I just need to get there and pick it up. I requested a few different editions. Not sure which came in. 5y

Graywacke @rjsthumbelina not just you. Of course we‘re having fun here, but the bard can be very challenging in different ways. 5y

wanderinglynn I‘m starting it soon & will have it read by Sunday. 👍🏻 5y

Susannah I‘m really looking forward to the discussion! 5y

batsy Yes, I managed to get a copy and am looking forward 🥳 5y

Lcsmcat 👍🏻 5y

Cathythoughts Go on you Shakespearean Ladies 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻♥️ 5y

Lcsmcat Those of you having trouble finding a copy, this site is free, online editions, but with the footnotes you might want: https://internetshakespeare.uvic.ca/Library/Texts/Tro/ 5y

jewright I started and like it so far. I can‘t wait to hear what everyone thinks. 5y

merelybookish @rjsthumbelina Welcome back! In some cases, it's been so long since I read a play it's almost like reading it for the first time. 🙂 But there are some I'm not excited to re-read. And it seems like very few in this group want to re-read Romeo and Juliet. 5y

merelybookish @erzascarletbookgasm Did you see the link @Lcsmcat posted below? An option if you can't get a hard copy. 5y

merelybookish @Graywacke Great! I may need to check out the library! Always prefer a hard copy to ebook! 5y

merelybookish @wanderinglynn @susannah @batsy Yay!! 5y

merelybookish @Cathythoughts Thanks for the encouragement Cathy! (We may need it with this one ? considered one of his "problem" plays.) 5y

merelybookish @Lcsmcat Thanks for sharing this! 5y

merelybookish @jewright You're ahead of me! Glad to hear you're enjoying so far! 5y

batsy @erzascarletbookgasm I found my Signet edition at Borders in The Gardens... If you're in the vicinity of an MPH or Borders, have a look :) 5y

aeeklund I would love to join! I actually already own this one. How‘s that for Lit Major? 😂 5y

catebutler My copy is arriving today! Can‘t wait to start. 😊 5y

merelybookish @aeeklund Perfect! Welcome along! 5y

merelybookish @catebutler Great! Feel free to post a pic of your edition when it arrives. It's fun to see the various covers and editions. 🙂 5y

readordierachel Looking forward to it! 5y

erzascarletbookgasm @Lcsmcat thanks for the link. @batsy , Margot, I didn‘t find a physical copy (which I prefer reading from) but am going to read online. Looking forward because I enjoyed my first read along very much! 😊 5y

Lcsmcat @erzascarletbookgasm @merelybookish You‘re welcome. I learned about it on Litsy but I can‘t remember who posted it originally. 5y

Dragonfairykats I won't be able to join in this time (trying to get all the activities on Litsy I want to join in an order to see how many there are!) 5y

Sunraven Can I still join? I‘m reading it regardless, so I‘ll probably crash your discussions informally if not. 😁 5y

merelybookish @Sunraven Oh of course! Please join us! Check out my page. We've been discussing Act 2 and would love your feedback! And I'll tag you from now on! 5y

Sunraven Woohoo! Thanks for that! ☺️📖 5y

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DGRachel

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Thanks to today‘s #bookmail, I‘m all set for the next Shakespeare Readalong. ❤️

GingerAntics I'm so excited for this play!!! 5y

DGRachel @GingerAntics Me, too! 5y

TheBookHippie Mine is on its way!!! Looking forward to this one! 5y

72 likes3 comments

LitsyHappenings

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Repost for @merelybookish :
Our next #shakespearereadalong is the Greek tragic love story of Troilus and Cressida. We will begin in a few weeks. Hopefully that gives everyone time to get a copy.
If you want to join along, just let me know and I'll add you to the list! Likewise, if you are taking a break from the Bard, leave a comment and I'll untag you.
Here's to more Shakespeare fun!

readinginthedark, GingerAntics

merelybookish Thank you for the repost! 5y

kaysworld1 Ohh I saw a modern version of this is was really good biker mashed in with steampunk. 5y

readinginthedark @kaysworld1 Fascinating! On film or in person? 5y

kaysworld1 @readinginthedark at the theatre in person it was amazing x 5y

readinginthedark @kaysworld1 I love unique productions like that! I saw a western version of Much Ado About Nothing once, which I expected to be weird, but it was great! 5y

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merelybookish @batsy @Lcsmcat @zsuzsanna_reads @Balibee146 @faibka @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @wordzie @wanderinglynn @BiblioLitten @thebookhippie @oOArankaOo @wife @saresmoore @DGRachel @cseydel @anna40 @readordierachel @kathedron @susannah 5y

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

Our next #shakespearereadalong is the Greek tragic love story of Troilus and Cressida. We will begin in a few weeks. Hopefully that gives everyone time to get a copy.
If you want to join along, just let me know and I'll add you to the list! Likewise, if you are taking a break from the Bard, leave a comment and I'll untag you.
Here's to more Shakespeare fun!
@readinginthedark @GingerAntics @LitsyHappenings

merelybookish @RestlessFickleBookHoarder @indoordame @jewright @erzascarletbookgasm @teainthelibrary @InLibrisVeritas @Gezemice @Mtroiano @KatieanneF @rabbitprincess @rjsthumbelina @CoffeeNBooks @Graywacke 5y

DGRachel Looking forward to it! 5y

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Graywacke Sounds good. Wonder what my library has. Might need to splurge and buy a copy. 5y

CoffeeNBooks Looking forward to reading this one! 5y

jewright I looked today, and it‘s in my massive Shakespeare Complete Works anthology from college. The question is if I want to read it in a smaller book. I haven‘t read this play before, so I‘m really looking forward to it. 5y

merelybookish @dgrachel @Graywacke @CoffeeNBooks @jewright Great! We will discover why no one seems to know this play.😬 5y

readordierachel 👍🏼👍🏼 5y

KarouBlue Joining! 5y

merelybookish @MellieAntoinette Excellent! I'll add you to our list! 5y

catebutler I‘d love to join, please! 5y

merelybookish @catebutler Welcome!! 5y

ladyneverwhere I'd like to join! 5y

merelybookish @ladyneverwhere Great! 5y

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GripLitGrl

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

#QuotsyMar19 #giant @TK-421

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Kimberlone

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

A quote about haunting for today! Would it be too on the nose to have chosen Macbeth or Hamlet?

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Kimberlone

Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

I think this might be my favorite insult so far! It‘s a long story, but this quote also became relevant yesterday (in a funny way).

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Troilus and Cressida | William Shakespeare

The herd hath more annoyance by the breeze Than by the tiger; but when the splitting wind Makes #flexible the knees of knotted oaks, And flies fled under shade, why, then the thing of courage
As roused with rage with rage doth sympathize,
And with an accent tuned in selfsame key Retorts to chiding fortune.
#quotsyapril18 @TK-421

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