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Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger
Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger | Soraya Chemaly
128 posts | 66 read | 3 reading | 145 to read
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review
Julsmarshall
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Pickpick

An important book, filled with thoughtful and rage inducing perspectives and facts about gender, power, and equality. Highly recommend this book to you, your friends, your daughters and sons. #audiobook was great! #bookspinBingo @TheAromaofBooks

Maria514626 @Julsmarshall Thanks for the recommendation! As we need books like this more and more … 😡🤦‍♀️ 1mo
TheAromaofBooks Great progress!! 1mo
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ncsufoxes
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Pickpick

I started reading this for #shesaid but life got busy & I didn‘t keep up with the conversations. But I finally finished & loves this book. It brought up lots of interesting points. Every day in the US it feels like women have a reason to be angry, looking at you the Supreme Court. This book was the perfect book for me to finish right now as I am about to go back into the working world. I feel things have changed a lot over the last 11 years since

ncsufoxes I have been a stay at home mom. As an advocate for disability & social justice this book highlights all the things I hold dear (plus infuriates me that these are still fights & issues in 2022). Plus raising 3 kids that I want to be aware & be ready to fight for others. #bookspin #nonfiction2022 prompt: I‘m a Rule Breaker 2mo
TheAromaofBooks Great progress!! 2mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Great review! Good luck re-entering the working world, I‘m nervous about that shift myself at the moment. 2mo
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MallenNC
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Pickpick

I forgot to do a review of our last #SheSaid book. I had this on TBR forever and am glad I finally read it. A lot of what the book covers has also been in some of our other #SheSaid selections. What I liked most about this one is how she blended her personal experiences and those of her family along with solid research. Her grandmother‘s story in particular will be something I think about for a while.

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I‘m so glad we got 1 off of your to-read shelves! 2mo
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vlwelser
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Pickpick

This is a must read. It doesn't go into a lot of depth but covers a lot of ground in a really readable manner. And the author does a great job of using herself and her family as examples.

#SheSaid @Riveted_Reader_Melissa

#BookSpinBingo @TheAromaofBooks

TheAromaofBooks Great progress!! 3mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Pickpick

This was a reread for me with #SheSaid and I got even more from it the second time around. Thank you so much for giving me a great group to discuss these subjects with!

My original review still holds true!

Original Review: Maybe you read The Beauty Myth or Down Girl and thought I need more, or What Happened or Catch and Kill or She Said and were furious, but didn‘t know what to do with that. Read this book, it‘s got facts and studies, ⤵️

Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ but more importantly a deep discussion about why women are so uncomfortable with our angry and so socialized to suppress it, it will help you understand why you are SO frustrated with the state of things and help you move forward!

Don‘t be afraid to be mad, use it, let it fuel you.
3mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid!

There was a lot in this book, but I have to say the conclusion felt like a nice wrap-up for me. Just be more aware of why you might be anger or self-silencing and think about why that is much much more

How did you all feel about the book overall? The last chapter? The conclusion?

Riveted_Reader_Melissa One of the quotes that particularly stuck out to me: “An adult relationship that can‘t withstand your saying you feel angry is probably not a healthy one and, if that pattern is sustained, probably not worth continuing.” Truth there 3mo
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KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa there‘s a lot of truth to that. I know that sometimes I make my husband uncomfortable when I talk about these things, but he listens and doesn‘t try to tell me I shouldn‘t be angry. Overall, I liked this book. 3mo
KathyWheeler A quote that stood out to me is this section was this: “If there‘s a word that should be retired from use in the service of women‘s expression, it is ‘appropriate‘ — .” Agreed. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @KathyWheeler Yes, that is a great one too! 3mo
Singout @KathyWheeler OMG “Appropriate” is *so* my mother‘s word. I hate it. I love the description of a grandmother who cultivated mischief and whose “vanity” was actually dignity. 3mo
MallenNC I thought this was a good wrap up to the book. I always appreciate action items or suggestions for change after reading something like this. 3mo
MallenNC I liked that she called anger a “clarifying emotion”. Sometimes when I have a challenge I‘m not sure what to do, but once I am “mad enough” I seem to know what to do and I have less fear about speaking up. 3mo
vlwelser This book was great and I loved going through it at this pace. The conclusion with the stories about her grandmother were especially awesome. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Singout and @vlwelser Yes, the grandmother‘s story at the end for me was so …I hate to say it, but “appropriate” 😂…. But it just shows how much perception matters, and point of view when looking at someone‘s story and experiences. What was “difficult” to the families POV was suddenly taking care of herself in retrospect. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC Yes… I‘ve found that too. I‘m good, get along, patient…. Until suddenly I‘m just done. I myself don‘t even know where the invisible line is usually, but I know it when it‘s been crossed. Like there is so much building up that I am internally silencing & explaining away & ignoring, until the proverbial “straw that just breaks the camels back” and then I can suddenly see it all so clearly and know that situation needs to be over. ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ so for me, I need to be much better at listening to all those little “frustrations” and letting myself be angry about them and confronting them…long before it gets to that point. 3mo
MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Yes, it can be that way for me too. The older I get though, the faster I get to that point! 3mo
staci.reads @KathyWheeler Absolutely!
3mo
staci.reads “Be brave enough to stop pleasing people, to be disliked, to rub people the wrong way...you might as well say exactly what's bothering you and get on with it.“ This really spoke to me. It was one of the things I had to come to terms with in my current position - there will be people who dislike me, and I have to learn to be okay with that. Usually easier said than done, but I'm trying. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads Yes! I highlighted that one too! 3mo
staci.reads I also connected with the Cultivate Communities and Accountability section. She says “Finding communities that validate and share your anger creates powerful opportunities for effective collective social action.“ I recently attended a conference for women in leadership and a speaker talked about how men prioritize networking and women don't. She believes women need to start making it a priority if we are to close the gaps. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa I read two interesting side reads while we read this, that seemed relevant to me. One was The Mercies, about a small community devastated by a natural disaster that killed most of the men in the village, but then were decimated by the witch hunts that followed….because of course the natural disaster had to be someone‘s fault and every thing the women did to come together, deal with their collective grief, and to survive and feed themselves was ⤵️ 3mo
staci.reads I was also really struck by her discussion of a girl's anger toward her mother and how it is a form of sexism that this is one of the only socially acceptable forms of anger in women. She says “The first women we know are our mothers, and yet we sometimes treat them, especially when they are angry, with the least compassion. That becomes a model for how we treat other women.“ I think of all the ways that trope is perpetuated in media (cont.) (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ of corse, unnatural for women and “inappropriate”, and therefore had to be the work of communing with the devil. It was historical fiction, but as I read it I kept thinking about this book and how so much of that was socially constructed to again keep women quiet, agreeable, and in their place….for fear of being likewise accused. (edited) 3mo
staci.reads and it makes me angry. It is also making me examine the way I interact with my mom when she is angry or upset (especially with my dad). Do I get annoyed by her anger? I think sometimes I do instead of hearing it out and validating that she has a right to be mad. We need to do better. 3mo
staci.reads @Riveted_Reader_Melissa That one sounds facinating - definitely adding it to my list! 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa The other was about Burnout, a short Audible original…mostly about life & work burnout….but I couldn‘t help thinking how much of the items they listed as contributing to their burnout were related to basically being on-call 24/7 with their jobs (through the use of smart phones and apps) to be available always, Basically to care for the company and it‘s work always…another form of full-time care giving & unpaid work. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads Yes too all of that! It‘s mom or grandma‘s fault for wanting more or expecting more…if she‘d just be quiet and do it all, there wouldn‘t be an issue. Makes me think back to the grandmother story in this last section. We expect too much from some people, but when they can‘t possible do everything always & happily (human) it‘s their fault. It‘s so said…the other quote I liked in this book was the Brazilian writer talking about ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ harrassment, etc…. Paraphrasing here…You should take it, be silent about it, not raise a fuss, and if you could possibly thank them for it afterwards, that‘s be even better. 3mo
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AnneCecilie

my personal experience reflects the social science finding that people who allow themselves to feel the fullest range of emotions, including the unpleasant ones, are happier and lead more fulfilling lives, regardless of cultural context.

#SheSaid

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Singout
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly

It is a particularly delicious irony that conservatives who bemoan declining heterosexual marriage can best prop up the institution not by doubling down on traditional binary gender roles but by embracing their fluidity.

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid!

Are you infuriated yet? I was mad, but now I‘m even more mad that I‘m not allowed to be mad either 😂. What a twisted system it is, especially once you start to look closely and dismantle it a bit. How did this weeks section hit you?

Are you reserving your next book at the library already? I‘ll try to get a schedule out soon so everyone can start planning. 😉

Riveted_Reader_Melissa This quote stuck out with me this week: “Unfairness and facts aren‘t what provoke anger; people like me who point them out do.” (edited) 3mo
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vlwelser I love that quote. This author is 🔥 3mo
vlwelser I feel like this chapter is winding down from the climax that was the intensity in the last chapter. I also like that she uses stats and calls people out on their shit. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser Yes, she seems very good at that. Always the facts to back up her “opinion”. 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa That‘s the one that stuck out for me as well. 3mo
MallenNC I forgot to check Litsy earlier for today‘s discussion. I liked that quote you mentioned, Melissa. People do not like to have things pointed out. It‘s one reason people don‘t believe women about things like this — bc it‘s easier to ignore and pretend it‘s not true. 3mo
MallenNC It was harder somehow to read this section after watch how Judge Brown Jackson was treated during her confirmation hearings. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC Yes!!! 🙄 And god bless her patience. 3mo
ravenlee Was the bit about females with no hair disrupting/affronting the male gaze in this section, or is it the next? That‘s been on my mind since the Oscars stupidity. (edited) 3mo
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AnneCecilie

Friedman quoted Princeton University lecturer Erin K. Vearncombe, an expert on the cultural meaning of appearance, who explained, “absent hair on a woman‘s head can be read as disruptive to the politics of the male gaze.”
If you can‘t focus on a woman‘s hair, it is definitely more difficult to ignore what comes out of her mouth.

#SheSaid

DivineDiana Shocking! 😵 Curious about the year this comment was made? 3mo
AnneCecilie @DivineDiana I doesn‘t say, unfortunately. Most of the research she is referring to is from 2015, 16, 17 and 18, so I wouldn‘t be surprised if it‘s quite recent. Even if that makes me quite sad. 3mo
DivineDiana 😢 3mo
37 likes3 comments
review
ravenlee
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Pickpick

I finished the #SheSaid selection ahead of traveling next week. What an amazing and infuriating book. I recommended it to my mom early on and she just got her copy recently. So much resonated with me. I imagine I‘ll revisit this one at some future time. Thanks @Riveted_Reader_Melissa for an excellent choice. First finish of #20in4

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AnneCecilie

For men, the institution of marriage comes with the assumption of certain privileges. It seems to generate male confidence in gendered and ultimately sexist roles that the insecurity of cohabitation doesn‘t.

#SheSaid

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AnneCecilie

People who deny sexism will always be more hostile to your anger than to what is actually causing your anger.

#SheSaid

mandarchy I highlighted the same sentence. I think this is true with all the isms. Maybe the anger is based in shame? She talks about how anger is thought to be a transitional tool, forward thinking, & leading to change, unless it's resentment. How do we move people out of that shame and anger and into inclusive thinking? 3mo
AnneCecilie @mandarchy The one who has the answer to that is going to solve everything. But from reading this book I think a good place to start is in the home and the raising of kids. A lot of the discrimination seems to start there. A saw a commercial focusing on the difference in payments between men and women. When young boys and girls where told the girls would get less than the boys from doing the same thing, their response was “that‘s not fair”. (edited) 3mo
mandarchy @AnneCecilie I've seen a lot of change in my lifetime. I mean, I can remember a lot of firsts for women, but wearing pants shouldn't have ever been a privilege. 3mo
42 likes3 comments
quote
Singout
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya L Chemaly

Epistemic injustice consists of testimonial injustice, the speaker not being taken seriously, and hermeneutical injustice, having one‘s social experience denied or hidden.

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid!

I hope those of you in the winter season are starting to see signs of spring. In the past week, I‘ve had crocuses appear, be blanketed under inches of snow, have it melt and now both crocuses & daffodils blooming. The renewal felt really good to me this week.

Now if only we can use all this anger, long suppressed under the blanket of gaslighting and societal silencing, and break free and renew some of our institutions.

MallenNC This section was tough. There wasn‘t anything in this chapter that I hadn‘t heard about before but reading it all together was so upsetting. I keep thinking about the woman in the US gymnastics team who asked “what is the worth of a little girl?” in her testimony. This chapter shows many times when girls and women weren‘t given their worth or were discounted by the world. 3mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC Yes! It was so hard seeing them all together, not as individual horrible instances, but as a continuous pattern. I hurt all over again reading the Brock Turner case…just a paragraph or two here…brought back that whole book. And I found myself even more grateful that she had it within her to write that and take her voice back. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC it also made me think I need to read the gymnastics book…another one I have and keep putting off…sadly though, because I know it will be important and the stories need to be heard and listened too… but yet you put off because you know it will be a hard read. 3mo
MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Yes, I am glad of that and glad that this group got me to finally read Know My Name. It was so powerful but I‘d hesitated to read it. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC Same here…. Maybe the lesson there is some things are so disturbing they shouldn‘t be faced alone, a group is better…both for those reading the accounts, and for those experiencing trauma…find friends you can safely share with and that will support you. (edited) 3mo
MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa That‘s a good point. I also think the group reads help me not rush through or get overwhelmed by the tougher topics. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC They help me to not get overwhelmed and sit them aside half-read for lighter fare….temporarily…that then stretched further & further. 3mo
staci.reads @MallenNC agree, nothing new here, but packaged under the theme of silencing and gaslighting made these stories still difficult to read about. 3mo
staci.reads I really loved that she started the chapter with the story of her great grandma and how that horrible tale of being kidnapped by a 40 year old man and forced into marriage at the age of 14 was romanticized and passed down through the generations as a beautiful origin story! I mean, wtf?? 3mo
staci.reads Another part that stood out to me was her highlighting the "deep unease" society has with women passing judgement on men (even from female JUDGES!). 3mo
vlwelser This chapter made me especially angry. That story about her great grandmother was very eye opening. Like how does kidnapping and raping a teenager turn into a fairy tale? This author has a lot of insight. I marked several passages in this chapter. She makes excellent points. 3mo
ravenlee I struggled with this section (partly because it was a crazy week and it took me four days to read it), but it‘s all so infuriating. I was thinking of the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings, along with a million other instances of this BS. I worry about raising my daughter in this toxic society we can‘t seem to fix. 3mo
MallenNC @vlwelser @staci.reads Yes, opening with her great grandmother‘s story was powerful. And how she explained that no one wanted to hear it when she pointed out it wasn‘t a love story. 3mo
Julsmarshall So many love stories, myths, and happily ever after a that aren‘t. I have to read in small chunks too, I get so ti led off. I will say that what I‘ve learned over these chapters has impacted how I hear some conversations at work and home. I‘m trying to call it out without making too much of a fuss. And then I think, make a fuss! 3mo
vlwelser @Julsmarshall we definitely should make a fuss. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser Just think about our society fairy tales though…Belle is kidnapped, forced to take her father who is held hostage‘s place, but falls in love with her violent & mean kidnapper…because he‘ll change if she‘s nice enough to him. The original Sleeping Beauty was, he fell in love with her at first sight and not only kissed her, but had sex with her, and impregnated her while she was unconscious ….. Ariel is literally forced to trade away ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa …voice and be permanently silenced to get her man. 1001 Arabian nights, she‘s avoiding murder every night, etc, etc They all are romanticized not great stories really, and those are the fictional ones. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser Ok… now I‘m mad just writing that. Even our fairy tales as children are crap and teaching us current social misogyny. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee I just heard him brought up again by a politician in regards to the new Supreme Court nominee…that she was being accused of bad things (they were literally taking her words in a judgment where she was quoting the witness and using it as her words to defame her) and he said, well Kavanaugh was accused of rape with no basis what do the Democrats expect in return… uh..there was basis, witnesses and everything (and it was sexual assault), ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa …But who cares about facts in this culture. So basically you treated our candidate badly, so we can do the same. (Never mind that 1 was legitimate and the other fabricated)… but even if you honestly thought that, shouldn‘t you be aiming to do better, not do worse to the next group.🙄 (edited) 3mo
vlwelser @Riveted_Reader_Melissa they are all like that. Even more modern things like Peter Pan. Which is also pretty racist. I secretly hope the book is better than Disney but not holding my breath. Most of these stories are attributed to men. Ugh. 3mo
vlwelser Can I also just say that this book seems to keep getting better? She's definitely trying to cover too many things. But this would be an interesting intro to women's studies type book. 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa You know, I‘ve always loved fairy tales, but, when I was a kid, the only one I really recognized as not being good for me was The Little Mermaid. I couldn‘t understand why she‘d give her voice away and walk on legs that pained her with every step just for a man. Now I understand that misogyny is inherent in almost all of them where women are present at all. 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I know I need to read Know My Name but can‘t bring myself to do it yet. That case filled me with so much anger! 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser I really like it too! I originally listened to it on audiobook over a year ago and liked it then, it‘s even better now that I‘m taking my time with it on ebook, able to underline sections, think about them over the week, and talk about them. 3mo
Julsmarshall @KathyWheeler I was reluctant to read Know My Name too but it was surprisingly uplifting, even with all the dark portions. And what a writer! 3mo
KathyWheeler @Julsmarshall That‘s good to know. Thanks. 3mo
ravenlee The Little Mermaid is the worst - and the original fairy tale ending is even more horrible! Ugh. And as for the partisan BS over Supreme Court nominees, no, I absolutely expect the GOP to be worse every time. If they can‘t win every time they‘ll break the game so nobody can play at all. 3mo
ravenlee Sorry to be a bother, but do we have a book picked out for when we finish this one? I have two schedules saved and they contradict each other. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee And yes….we shuffled them around a couple times this year. (edited) 3mo
Singout I‘d like to learn more about this concept which she attributes to Miranda Flicker. Epistemic injustice consists of testimonial injustice, the speaker not being taken seriously, and hermeneutical injustice, having one‘s social experience denied or hidden, including no framework for understanding it. 3mo
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review
staci.reads
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Pickpick

Finished this #SheSaid selection up a little early. So much of this made me feel seen, especially the parts about the physical and psychological effects of suppressed anger. Ironic, though, that a book about anger can feed my anger 🤷‍♀️. @Riveted_Reader_Melissa
In other news, the sunshine gave me an early spring day of patio reading 🌞

Riveted_Reader_Melissa And the point is, I think, that we need to let ourselves feel & acknowledge that anger (instead of discounting & suppressing it)…and that when we talk openly about our reasons for feeling that way, because they are more universal and not “just us”… only then can we see the widespread systematic issues and maybe, hopefully do something about them. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa A beautiful day though, and I‘m so glad the book made you feel seen…we all need that… our issues & feeling should not be trivialized and silenced (edited) 3mo
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mandarchy
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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#shesaid My problem: I borrowed the Kindle version for 21 days. I saved notes, but gr doesn't tell me what page or chapter this is from. Based on comments in this week's thread, I think this is from this week's chapter. It takes practice, but I tend to shut down men that talk over me and argue circles around mansplainers. It may be why I'm a perpetually single cis-g female. I refuse to share my genius with anyone who can't appreciate it 😂😉

KathyWheeler It is from this week‘s chapter. I need to better incorporate those words into my life. 3mo
mandarchy @KathyWheeler it helps to practice. I took nonviolent communication training and I statements are great. "I can't talk to someone that interrupts me". "I feel my words are less important than yours when I'm interupted". 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @mandarchy Those are great! I need to write those down & practice them!! 3mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid!

Are we all feeling the Drip, Drip, Drip of microaggressions or just overwhelming expectations as the care givers of society? What stood out to you in this chapter?

MallenNC Yes! A lot of this was covered in Invisible Women and some of our other books so I was less mad reading it since it wasn‘t new information. But all the examples of women being spoken over and discounted in the workplace stood out to me. I am lucky to work in a majority female organization and office so I‘ve had less of this than most women. And I am grateful for that. (edited) 4mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC What was the statistic there…the meeting/workplace has to be 70% female for the conversation to reach parity. 😬 4mo
vlwelser This did cover a lot of the same ground as Invisible Women, though not as in depth. I also found this less infuriating. Maybe I'm partially numb. 4mo
MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Yes, it was 70%. In my office there are 13 women and only one man, and our college leadership is 80% female. So we‘re there! 4mo
MallenNC @vlwelser I think I am a bit numb to this too. Still mad, but it‘s definitely more of an “of course” feeling too. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser @MallenNC maybe we are just getting numb to it all, which is sad too really. 4mo
IndoorDame I may be numb to the small everyday things, but then when something breaks out of that microaggression mold, instead of getting angry right away too often I‘m just shocked into inaction. Like someone said to me once, don‘t worry your pretty little head about that, and all I could think in the moment was, no one says that outside of books and movies. So it ends up looking like I‘m okay with someone saying that shit to me too. 4mo
KathyWheeler I was a bit stunned that virtual assistants had no answers or resources to suggest for “I was raped” or “I‘m being abused.” I wasn‘t surprised by anything else though. 4mo
Julsmarshall I know that I‘m getting a little numb, but I added a “Smash the Patriarchy” sticker to my phone case and I‘m waiting for someone to raise an eyebrow 😀 Bring it on! 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @KathyWheeler Yes! It should at least know to call 911! 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Seriously! But instead it has, “I got nothing.” That‘s all kinds of messed up. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @KathyWheeler yep… it didn‘t recognize that phrase….no wonder women don‘t report, authorities of all kinds don‘t see it as even a phrase let alone a crime. 🙄 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa And when they do report, they get accused of lying. 3mo
ravenlee I feel like it‘s all set up so that if a woman reacts to a microaggression, she‘s overreacting and should only deal with stuff that “matters.” But when she saves it up for something big, nobody takes it seriously. A woman just can‘t win. Boys will be boys and women just have to accept it, and all that garbage. 3mo
ravenlee My last job, low-level manager at BN, I had a friend who was also a manager who often said in our management meetings, loudly and clearly, “Anne JUST said that,” or, “Anne said that last week and you ignored her.” It was vindicating, but it was enraging how often he had to do that. There were only 7-8 of us in those meetings. He also stood up for me after I quit, as I got blamed for a lot of failures in my absence. He always said, 3mo
ravenlee “That‘s not what Anne did,” or “That‘s exactly what Anne warned us would happen.” Such a toxic management team. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee That is a great friend, and a great example for all men to follow (friend or not, to just be a decent person.) 3mo
Singout I like what she says about “benevolent sexism”: trading power for protection and being made to feel “special.” 3mo
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quote
AnneCecilie

A 2015 study conducted by the New York City Department of Consumer Affairs compared pricing for nearly eight hundred products. The review found that girl‘s clothing cost, on average, 4 percent more than boy‘, while women‘s clothing cost 8 percent more than men‘s. Girl‘s toys cost 7 percent more than boys‘ do - even for identical products. One of the biggest gaps was in personal hygiene and care products, which cost women 13 percent more.

#SheSaid

melissanorr I once read an article about this and a company rep tried to justify it by saying it's because the female aimed products are "niche." I couldn't even wrap my brain around the idea that 50% of the population is "niche." 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @melissanorr maybe we need unisex, Uncolored & unperfumed everything. But that means no black and old spice-axe niche for men either 😂 4mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Another great/infuriating chapter #SheSaid

This book always makes me think, and forces me to think about things I‘d usually push aside, push down, downplay and realize just how universal and telling they really are.

And then I post here, and we all usually have our own stories to share…. the just how universal and normalized it is in our society is staggering sometimes.

ImperfectCJ @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I have so far not been able to join in on these reads, so please go ahead and remove me from the list. I'll keep track via the hashtag and jump back in if I can work it into my schedule. :-) 4mo
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IndoorDame This was such an overwhelming chapter to read because like every woman I have 30 years of these stories- most of which I‘ve never shared, and most of which I‘ve convinced myself were “nothing” -plenty of fodder to come flooding back every time she introduced a new topic. 4mo
Julsmarshall @IndoorDame I am feeling that same way. The question of security and who is responsible for our experience of it hit me hard and those passages really resonated: “the sting of knowing that exactly as the world starts expanding for most boys, it begins to shrink for you” and (paraphrased) This isn‘t about safety, otherwise we‘d teach boys who are also subject to risk the same thing. “It‘s about social control”. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Julsmarshall yes. So sad, and yet a harsh truth. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @IndoorDame exactly! Individually we have stories, and we tell ourselves they are “nothing” an odd aberration….but when story after story by every women is laid out, it gets a bit harder to just brush off. 4mo
Julsmarshall All of the statistics about rape, harassment, violence and justice are heart wrenching and anger-inducing. “The most dangerous man [statistically] a woman will encounter is the one sitting at her own table.” Oof. And how she finishes the chapter, “if we accept the interpretation of life as we know it, we make it acceptable.” I, for one, am angry and I‘m done making it acceptable. 4mo
Julsmarshall @Riveted_Reader_Melissa and @IndoorDame I feel like sharing our stories helps us all to see how regular they are and, hopefully, will encourage change. These aren‘t unique situations, they happen to nearly all of us. 4mo
staci.reads Yes, another infuriating chapter. Reading this book is very similar to my experience reading Everyday Sexism, by Laura Bates, who she references toward the end of the chapter. I read a little, and then have to put the book aside because I'm so enraged and feel so hopeless to change anything. I have to step away, process, and then come back to read more later. Mostly, I think, because it hits home - and I hate that it hits home. 4mo
staci.reads @IndoorDame Some of these stories bring back memories of experiences that I haven't thought about for decades. And I'm sure the reason I haven't thought about them for decades is because I normalized them at the time. I just considered it part and parcel of being a woman. How sad is that? 4mo
MallenNC Like all of you, this chapter was all too familiar. All women have these stories. The worst of mine were from when I waitressed in college, when the “solution” was to get one of my male coworkers to pretend to be my boyfriend. Men were less willing to harass if they thought we “belonged” to another man. This is why women wear fake wedding rings! It‘s exhausting to have to constantly consider dangers when going about your life. (edited) 4mo
staci.reads "The single most accurate predictor of violent crime is a man's felony domestic violence conviction."The statistics that follow that were so disturbing, but shouldn't have been surprising. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Julsmarshall yes! Like the #MeToo movement…together we can be stronger 4mo
Julsmarshall @Riveted_Reader_Melissa and @IndoorDame I feel like sharing our stories helps us all to see how regular they are and, hopefully, will encourage change. These aren‘t unique situations, they happen to nearly all of us. 4mo
staci.reads @Julsmarshall I underlined that quote as well "it's the sting of knowing that exactly as the world starts expanding for boys, it begins to shrink for you." It hurt to read that, for me and for my daughters. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads Yes! All of the restraining orders, domestic abuse that gets brushed away by law enforcement, rape kits unprocessed because “women lie a lot/so not urgent”. It‘s so infuriating! How can we see abuse of animals as precursors for violent behavior, but ignore violence against women. If a man kills animals it‘s warning sign for violent behavior, if he abuses women …well, she must have done something to deserve that. 🤦‍♀️🤯and now, 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ with mass shootings…I‘m always amazed how many of them have had violence against women issues in the past. As everyone talks about guns, mental health, they seem to never mention harsher punishment of those that abuse women. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads I know, that hurt because I could see that in my own life…. And the line about not scheduling trips to places you‘ve always wanted to see….I felt that one too. 4mo
vlwelser This chapter aligns with a lot of the other books we have been reading. And I loved the mention of Mona Eltahawy (sp?). An extreme version of this story is that my teenage best friend was murdered by a male that she tried to break up with. So this topic hits me pretty hard. But we need to talk about this stuff. Men who don't behave like this think it's exaggerated. Men who do act like this respond like we're wrong to complain. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser Yes, I noticed her mention too. And I am so sorry about your friend! The reaction of his men take these discussions make me think of #metoo also, for some denial and anger…but for many it was “really, you too?”, all those stories just broke through in a way individual ones had not. I really should add the book by the women who started that movement to our list…so many books… (edited) 4mo
Julsmarshall Spot on, @vlwelser . And I‘m sorry about your friend. @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I‘ve had the safety aspect affect the places I‘ve wanted to travel too. And I really enjoy solo travel, but that limits where I can go which is infuriating. 4mo
vlwelser @Julsmarshall omg. I forgot about the travel thing. Denmark is supposed to be one of those safe places. That story made me rethink basically everything. 4mo
ravenlee This chapter, like all of them, was infuriating, and concerning for me as the mother of a girl. I need to teach her about safety but also that it‘s all BS. A friend‘s daughter started running for school a few years ago, around 12. Friend sat down with daughter and running friends and said: never run with both earbuds in. Never, ever, leave a girl behind. Never run without someone (multiple someones) knowing where/when. It made her sick but 🤷🏻‍♀️ 4mo
ravenlee I never thought about the self-defense classes and all that other crap as feeding the social control/fear. I always hated it, though - make the boys take the classes on how not to be a rapist! But that would be wrong. We have to teach the girls not to be victims - and then when it happens anyway it must be her fault, because we told her what not to do. Oh, and let‘s not forget “what were you wearing?”. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser @Julsmarshall Yes, I always wanted to see many things…like for instance, the pyramids…but it just isn‘t a safe place for a woman to travel alone. And reading this reminds me it can happen anywhere, is Denmark or the US really markedly safer? Probably not, because it can happen anywhere…the difference is probably more a combo of prejudice, “it can‘t happen here”, and that if you went alone—well they would definitely say it was her fault 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee The running thing makes me think of Gary Condit - Chandra Levy story, where she disappeared, it came out they had a relationship, he was suspected…and later after another jogger attack, they eventually found her remains. Attacked on her morning run, in a wooded park way in downtown DC and body not found for over year…I visited that park when I lived there, a beautiful natural space in the middle of the city… but police didn‘t find ⤵️ 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ her alive or her remains because the story of the affair was much more interesting. It only came out later that the congressman had an airtight alibi from day 1, and other women had been assaulted in the park around the same time and they had that man. That story even gets sadder because they didn‘t search properly (again her sex life was much more exciting) and she probably died tied up in the woods of exposure.🙄. Not to mention the man ⤵️ 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ who assaulted other women in the park, was basically deported, but never tried & convicted. The whole thing always stuck with me, I‘m sure like the Gabby Petito will with girls growing up today….that such obvious signs are just overlooked and even after remains are found, basically brushed aside anyway…questioning her decisions & relationships much more interesting then her being missing/murdered. (edited) 4mo
KathyWheeler When we were in grad school, my husband used to walk home from the library late at night and thought nothing of it. I did it once, prayed that I‘d be safe the entire way, and never did it again. 4mo
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AnneCecilie

It is estimated that 68 percent of women in situations of intimate violence are almost strangled to death by their partners at least once. Seven in ten of these women believe they will be killed, either in the moment or eventually. A woman killed by a man she knows has, on average, been strangled seven times prior to her murder. Yet only thirty-eight US states have laws that recognize suffocation and strangulation as attempts to kill a person.

Brimful I must reread! Saw a brilliant production of the novel at the Barbican some years ago 4mo
37 likes2 comments
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AnneCecilie

Doctors have long puzzled over why, if some women don‘t go to war, they exhibit higher levels of post-traumatic stress than men. Unwanted sexual advances, objectification, and persistent harassment are partially to blame. But so too is a cultivated awareness of threat and elevated anger.

#SheSaid

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AnneCecilie

Sometimes there is a dawning realization, and it is painful. One father I know whose daughters were on the cusp of leaving for college said to me one day, “ If you think about rape, it will drive you crazy.” I don‘t know if he was more upset before or after I told him that they were already past a red zone - that 44 percent of rapes occur before victims are eighteen.

#SheSaid

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid. I hope everyone is having a great weekend.

A lot to unpack in this chapter, and again not a surprise reading it, sadly many of these statistics are better known now, but put together this way it definitely makes you think about it more as a larger social construct than random things that are happening independently of each other. What did you think of this chapter? Any parts that stood out to you or that you want to discuss?

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I couldn‘t help thinking of Gabrielle Union‘s new book that is just recently read (again)…she tried to have a child for a very long time, went through fertility treatments, and ended up needing a surrogate. She was very candid in both her first book & her second of both internalize guilt at not being able to do this “naturally” and backlash she got over different parts of her journey trying to have a child. So with that recently read, I couldn‘t 4mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ help thinking about it as I read this chapter. 4mo
ravenlee This chapter was amazing and infuriating. It reminded me a lot of my childbirth experience, like when my ob told me I could make a birth plan if I wanted but she wouldn‘t follow it, when she refused to discuss what might leas to a c-section (which I ended up having), and when she ignored my postpartum bleeding except to perform an unnecessary surgery and then shrug while I hemorrhaged for six months. 4mo
ravenlee I have gotten a lot of pushback for having only one child (see previous experience for most of why!). And I got a lot of crap for waiting in the first place, as we were married six years before deciding we wanted a child. I‘ve never understood why any of it is anybody‘s business in the first place! 4mo
vlwelser @ravenlee definitely nobody's business 4mo
vlwelser I thought this chapter was the most stunning yet. I felt so bad for the author's sister. But also for everyone else that had to deal with these situations where they weren't listened to and not provided appropriate care. 4mo
IndoorDame So many things in this chapter made me angry! But in each section I kept coming back to the idea that no one was listening to what women are saying. Both their partners or employers, but frequently their doctors. I‘ve definitely had this experience in all sorts of ridiculous ways, and it just makes you want to scream. (Not that I ever have actually screamed in the moment…) 4mo
Julsmarshall I agree with all of you and I had to keep putting the book down and taking a break because I was so mad. And so right, much of this happens because women are seen on some level as a vessel that serves everyone but themselves. That we are meant to help men carry on their bloodline, an incubator for the next generation and responsible for the emotional and physical health of everyone around us. It is exhausting and infuriating. 4mo
Julsmarshall And the “husband stitch”? I‘m pretty sure smoke was coming out of my ears. 4mo
KathyWheeler This chapter made me the angriest of all so far. I remember when I had my first child, and told the nurse I had to push. She believed it was too early because it was my first child and she didn‘t want to wake the doctor up. She finally checked me because my husband told her to. My son‘s head was crowning. But, no! I, as a woman, would have no actual clue what was going on with my body, so I wasn‘t worth listening to.😡 (edited) 4mo
KathyWheeler @Julsmarshall Mine too! I‘d heard about it before, but for Pete‘s sake! (edited) 4mo
IndoorDame @Julsmarshall @KathyWheeler Seriously! I knew this was once common, but I had no idea it was still going on. How is that legal? Especially without the patient‘s knowing about it!! 4mo
ravenlee A friend told me that his mother was severely beaten during her last pregnancy (should have been his second sibling) and the fetus died. She was forced to carry to term “just in case” and had to endure another month or so of incubating a dead baby, then still had to deliver. They refused her epidurals and painkillers and treated her like she was a monster. What a world we live in. 😡 4mo
ravenlee Another friend has seven kids. During her last pregnancy her vile OB grabbed a handful of her abdominal skin and told her he‘d give her a referral to a really good plastic surgeon after birth because she needed about $10k of work to look good in a swimsuit for her husband (who has seven children with her, he hardly finds her repulsive!). It‘s everywhere. 4mo
Julsmarshall You know, it is really remarkable that we aren‘t angry ALL the time! 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @IndoorDame And if we screamed, we would do so justifiably given circumstances like these, but would quickly be labeled “hysterical” and crazy. I makes me think there is more of a connection there to the original “hysteria” diagnosis…in reality it was just women who were tired of it and not putting up with it anymore…and therefore ended up medicated & institutionalized through much of our history….for basically allowing themselves to admit & 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa …show real frustration (and Yes, rage). If the “good girl” has anger, she must be insane since that doesn‘t fit the societal mold. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee after 7 kids, I‘d definitely find a different OB… but reading this and even the sections about Catholic Hospitals made me realize just how few choices most women actually have… sadly not as much as we should as “customers” looking for better service providers. 4mo
ravenlee @Riveted_Reader_Melissa she didn‘t have the same one for all of them (military family, so their kids were born all over the states!) but I was amazed and appalled that she didn‘t ditch that guy that very minute. I didn‘t know any better with my OB experience, but my friend should have. 4mo
ravenlee The “care” I received in the hospital following my c-section was pathetic. First nurse was a tiny (like, 4‘10” and maybe 90 pounds) loan from a different unit and had never worked labor and delivery. She was supposed to help me if I fell trying to get my baby, who was placed out of reach while I had a catheter. I couldn‘t get a full meal from the cafeteria (vegetarian? In Louisiana? No way). Nursery nurse refused to take my baby 👇🏻 4mo
ravenlee to the nursery so I could get two hours of sleep. It was ridiculous. And they all treated me like it was my fault, for being a bad mom and needing an emergency c-section and whatever else. I had one good nurse in five days and never saw my doctor the whole time because she went on vacation, so I saw a parade of other docs, none more than once. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee That is insane, and really brings home the point of a society that reveres motherhood, but not actual human mothers. I think it‘s very telling that every chapter of this book we read, the real women reading it, from different areas & walks of life, all can jump in with their own personal experiences (or those of a close friend) which to me shows how universal the problems really are. 4mo
ncsufoxes When I had my first I had a great experience, the nurses were responsive & helpful. When I had my second (same hospital), it was such a horrible experience. I had an emergency c-section (first c-section) & the nurse was so horrible. I remember being in horrible pain & buzzing constantly & no one coming to give me meds or anything. I think I ended up going home after 2-3 days because at home my husband could give me meds on time. 4mo
ncsufoxes When I became pregnant with my second I start off at a different OB office that was closer to our house. I had to go in for an early routine check & the NP couldn‘t find the heartbeat (mind you my first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage). So I am always on edge after losing our first baby. Anyhow she couldn‘t find the heartbeat & then told me that I was probably still pregnant since I was vomiting daily. Then proceeded to tell me I should have 4mo
ncsufoxes Extensive blood work done to rule out any STDs. When I asked why, my husband & I had been married 9 years at that point, together for like 15 years (& my last pregnancy no one suggested this). She flat out told me, well men cheat & you should get checked just in case. After I wanted to punch her I said that it was something I was not concerned about because I am in a committed relationship. She‘s like well you should still do it because you never 4mo
ncsufoxes Know. I told my husband see, the one time you don‘t come with me. But I left that office very quickly & filed a complaint. Also a few years ago after my husband was finishing his post doc he did some interviews at universities to see if he wanted to go into academics. He interviewed at Notre Dame & they flat out said that they do not pay for any birth control since they are a Catholic 4mo
ncsufoxes Institution. So that was eye opening to find out that they could dictate the kind of care you receive. 4mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Well #SheSaid this ch. felt very timely to me…. Both personally & politically.

First, I couldn‘t help thinking about the 2 infrastructure bills in the US, one for roads & bridges (easily passed) and one for human infrastructure (ie. women‘s work) that was fought tooth and nail and died….because why put tax money into something you can get women to do for free (child care, elder care, etc 🙄).

⤵️

Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ But also because I am having these arguments with a 20 something young man who lives in my household & seems to think I should happily do all the household stuff (free cook, personal shopper, laundress) but also provide complete care for the new puppy (the dog he HAD TO have)! I know it stinks to have to get up early in the morning & go out in the cold to walk the dog, but it stinks for me too, the difference being I don‘t own a dog. 🙄😂 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ and honestly I‘m not winning this petty little home battle, so what chance do the rest of us have. 😱 4mo
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MallenNC This chapter reinforced what I have read previously and seen all around me. I don‘t have kids, but I‘ve seen all my friends, even with progressive partners, shoulder most of the childcare. And I‘m now at the point in life where my mom needs me to take her for multiple doctors appointments, so I feel a small part of the stress of trying to balance that with work. (edited) 4mo
MallenNC Melissa, that‘s a great connection with the infrastructure bill passing but the one supporting children and women did not. This chapter made the point that our society doesn‘t value “women‘s work” really well. It‘s also reflected, as she wrote, in devaluing teachers. It‘s very frustrating. 4mo
mandarchy My current frustration is the man in my house who expects to be thanked for cleaning up after himself. I'm supposed to be a cheering section every time he does a small chore. But no one notices everything I do, which includes working full time and paying the bills. I think they should have a parade for me everytime the furnace goes on. Occasionally I slam pots and pans around in the kitchen, I can't quietly do the dishes. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC I completely understand that, I don‘t have any children either… but I helped care for two grandparents who wanted to be able to stay in their home, 1 parent, and now a nephew…women‘s care-giving doesn‘t begin or end with children. And looking back on it now, it‘s quite telling that the “handicapped” granddaughter without children was the “obvious” choice to care for them…since she didn‘t have kids or grandkids to worry about. 😂 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @mandarchy Yes! You understand my nephew frustrations then! You are an adult, so am I, I take care of my pets and clothes, and cleaning, etc….why should I be responsible for yours. I‘m not your mom, and you are no longer a small child. But yet they seem stuck in a perpetual childhood state where they expect us to “mother” them their entire lives. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @mandarchy I‘m beginning to understand why women live longer despite these imbalances, because now I know our best years are at 80 & above….after the men pass on. 😂 (edited) 4mo
tenar I agree, we‘ve seen this devaluing play out on the biggest stages lately, and this section reinforced a lot of what we learned about womens‘ economics in Invisible Women. I felt a little like this chapter spent less time on anger itself and more time on why we should be mad 😂 The new idea to me was the connection she made between caregiving stress & monetary stress! I think gendered thinking on finances may have kept me from seeing that before. 4mo
MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa That was so sad to me — that women‘s happiest times were in their 80s when they could finally just care for themselves. I agree that women are expected to do all these things that men are expecting to be thanked/recognized for. It‘s like when fathers say they‘re babysitting while the mothers do something else. No, you are parenting, not babysitting. 4mo
MallenNC @tenar I thought this chapter reinforced Invisible Women too. I agree that everything in this chapter was something we should be mad about. 4mo
mandarchy @MallenNC the babysitting dad! That's the man in my house that wants to be applauded for emptying the dishwasher. I didn't have kids until I was 40 and my family always called on me to take care of things because I wasn't busy. Then they don't remember who did all the work. I flipped my lid at Thanksgiving one year when my aunt tried to take credit for all the work. I'm actually grateful for the pand 4mo
mandarchy I hate my thumbs! I hit send before that last comment was ready. I was saying I don't miss holiday meals with my family. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar I think the idea is we should be mad, and often internally are, we are just subverting and denying it (even to ourselves) because of socialization and the gaslighting that occurs if we express it. She helping us to see that internal anger and that it is valid to feel it…. Not only that but it might be empowering if we all recognize it & use it to fuel change. (edited) 4mo
tenar @mandarchy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa This chapter must have really keyed me up because I‘m ready to get into fisticuffs with the men in y‘alls‘ lives, hah! I‘ve never managed a shared household, but what I‘ve seen by men in my family has been the ignorance (they believe they do their fair share, but never realized the bathtub doesn‘t clean itself) and helplessness (where they try to get out of it by avoiding learning for themselves). Frustrating! 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @mandarchy I completely understand that…less family gatherers, more time to relax & enjoy the holidays. I used to cart my nephew (same one) around every holiday between his mom & dad‘s (they were never married & did not get along), but I spend a lot of holidays driving the nephew around so he would get to every gathering, when I could have just stayed home and read. I remember conversations then when my brother would complain nonstop about his⤵️ 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ son‘s mom. And that I was too “friendly” with her. Well, someone had to be the intermediary, and that person has to talk to both parties. Again emotional labor my brother was unwilling to do. 🙄 4mo
tenar @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I totally see your point, that validation is deeply important for a disregarded or even gaslit emotion, and I imagine it would be especially powerful if it was the first time someone reading had come across these ideas articulated in this manner. I‘m looking forward to where she directs us and our feelings after taking us through the women‘s anger tour! 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar Yes…and they admitted to doing it badly so they wouldn‘t have to do it anymore….I‘m still shocked they admitted that to the study/author/whatever. 4mo
IndoorDame I don‘t manage a shared household either, but in every one I know, no matter how well the physical labor is divided, ALL the mental management is done by the women and they find it frustrating and exhausting. Even if the men in their households do the shopping, if they don‘t gather everyone and say it‘s time to make the weekly shopping list, or, we ran out of x, the shopping just won‘t happen that week. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @IndoorDame Yes 😂. The gender most capable to run the world (they say) and almost every government and government office… but can‘t manage a grocery run, or cards on birthdays, or any other “minor” organizational challenge without their “help” mate. (edited) 4mo
IndoorDame @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I was shocked by this too! Can you imagine how high the number must be if you add in the men who didn‘t admit to it?! 4mo
tenar @IndoorDame This is an excellent point that I‘m not sure if has been thoroughly made in the books we‘ve read so far! There‘s this insidious lack of ultimate household responsibility that I guess is yet another defense against equalizing housework. I remember this webcomic about it called “You Should‘ve Asked” (like, ‘I would have helped you if you just told me what to do!) https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ 4mo
tenar Perhaps a vital part of propping that mental division up was the data the author shared about how people still believe in gendered household domains- women should be responsible for the interior of the house, men should be responsible for the garage and yard or what have you. (How does that go for apartments?) (edited) 4mo
IndoorDame @tenar that comic is a fabulous illustration of that concept! 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar I think that “why didn‘t you ask” thing falls into the same category as…if I do it poorly she‘ll stop asking me to do it. I think it‘s a fake out sometimes to get out of helping/working. 😬 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar Great comic!!!! 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Plus I find when I do ask…I get a lot of excuses why he can‘t do xyz… 4mo
ravenlee Oh my goddess yes, this chapter. I‘m a SAHM and homeschooler, I didn‘t want to give up the closeness to my daughter and then homeschool started - and I became Susie freaking Homemaker. I love some things about it but I also have some serious rage about it. Like, when we do floors, hubby will vacuum but apparently it takes a vagina to handle a broom. 🙄I never, ever get a break. I spent my mom‘s birthday with her in October, the first time 👇🏻 4mo
ravenlee I‘ve ever been away from kiddo overnight (she‘s 8), and it was the easiest thing in the world for kid and hubby, but massive guilt for me. Now I have a gig that will have me out of the house every evening for a week straight, then weekend afternoons twice. The guilt! I have to do the meal planning so they can eat while I‘m off working. 4mo
ravenlee When my dad retired from USAF he told my mom it was “her turn” to work for a living, and he‘d stay home and take care of the house. It couldn‘t be that hard, after all, because she‘d been doing it for 20 years. Meanwhile she was raising three kids in a foreign country while my dad was flying all over the world. My BF told me once if anything ever happens to my dad my mom needs to tell that story and say, “I didn‘t kill him then, why would I now?” 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee See…but why do you have to do the meal planning. He‘s an adult he knows how to eat, and can feed himself…and your child is 8, she knows what she likes. I have faith he can figure it out. (but boy I understand the guilt and the feeling that you HAVE to plan it out for them or they will starve) 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee How do they get us that wrapped around their finger that we feel we need to do it all because they can‘t fend for themselves🤷‍♀️ 4mo
vlwelser This chapter made me really happy that I didn't end up down one of these paths where I would be responsible for another human. But I obviously could do it if I had to. I see my friends that have male partners and useless siblings really struggling with some of this stuff. 4mo
ravenlee Exactly! I “have” to do the meal planning so the shopping can get done so that everybody can eat. If I don‘t do it, then they might eat but won‘t. It‘ll be PBJ for me heading out the door at 6 and nothing left when I get home at 1030. Because it‘s “my job.” When hubby plans dinner, usually that means he grills something and tells me what dishes I‘m supposed to prepare. Did I mention I‘m vegetarian? So in his plan I STILL have to feed everyone. 4mo
vlwelser Caitlin Moran talked about a lot of this stuff in her last book. Mostly relating to elder care and it being an unpaid burden that mostly falls on women. 4mo
vlwelser @ravenlee my bestie struggles with this stuff. One of her kids has crazy allergies and the husband refuses to eat what she makes for the kids and then complains that she didn't make anything he wanted to eat. She basically just tells him to f off and he gets a lot of takeout. Which makes him fat. Which he also complains about. So ridiculous. 4mo
KathyWheeler “Just text me a list of what you want me to do and I‘ll do it.” That‘s what I got. My husband is retired but I‘m still responsible for telling him what needs to be done in the house. Weirdly, since he was so sick last year and is still learning to walk again, I notice him trying to do things himself without asking what needs doing. 4mo
ravenlee @vlwelser my husband has been fine with eating what I cook for most of our marriage. I need to give him credit - he doesn‘t care that I never took his name, our daughter has my last name; in a lot of ways he‘s great. But the other stuff…drives me up a wall! Like the recent obsession with grilling meat all. The. Time. And then leaving the rest of the meal up to me. It‘s not easier or better in any way, but he can‘t see that. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser that one is on my list, I really liked her first one 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee the other book I‘m listening too is Gabrielle Union‘s newest. Her first was great and this one is a great addition. I picked it up this afternoon and the essay that happened to be next was about exactly this issue and her anger over it. How even when he retired and it was “her” turn she was responsible for all the child planning and her career stuff, while he was then retired….and how mad she got while trying to juggle all of that ⤵️ 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ one day, realizing that she was going to be late for a meeting and said, “can you grab me a water”…and he said “I don‘t work for you” and the anger that flooded through her because we (women) do all that stuff all the time and we don‘t “work” for them either. I know I‘m not doing the essay justice here… but it seriously fit right in with this chapter & conversation. (edited) 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ she goes on to talk about the division of role expectations, child rearing, and how his retirement made them more pronounced in many ways, and the repressed anger women feel about it. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Both are great, but I‘d recommend them in order. 4mo
Julsmarshall This chapter, oi! It has me feeling a lot of feelings. When my kids were small, I worked part time at odd hours but still arranged for all childcare and did all the cooking, cleaning, all the caring. My husband has always helped with cooking and groceries but for years only when I asked for help. Kids are grown now and he definitely helps more (years of training, lol) but this chapter put me right back into those tough days. 4mo
ncsufoxes Mental load, it‘s my phrase I say constantly around my house. My oldest is 17 & I tell him all the time: you need to make a list of what you need to get done & do it so I don‘t have to remind you, reduce my mental load (still need to remind him since he has ADD & requires frequent reminders but we‘re getting there). My husband is pretty good about doing things without asking because he can see dishes need to be done or what not. Plus he cleans 4mo
ncsufoxes bathrooms & actually does most of the cleaning. But I definitely do more of making appointments for kids, the dog & taking them. Although for the last year I have shifted more of the responsibility onto him. Our middle child is also Autistic & so this brings additional planning planning & work for both of us. But I know I definitely do more related to child care: therapy appts, following up with school stuff, activities, holiday shopping. All the 4mo
ncsufoxes little things that need to be taken care of that if I don‘t do it it wouldn‘t get done. Although my mom & I had a discussion a few weeks ago about how my husband does a lot around the house but his father never did anything to help his mom (& my MIL is not a feminist, she catered to my FIL). I‘ve never had to tell my husband to do things, he just naturally did/does them. Probably because when we were married we were both working. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ncsufoxes I feel that way often, “little things that need to be taken care of that if I don‘t do it it wouldn‘t get done”…. But boy they can add up quick when you have to do them or if I stop doing them don‘t they.🙄. I probably should have mentioned above that my nephew who I am struggling with has ADHD, it is definitely an added challenge….because he can so easily tune those little things out. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ncsufoxes maybe your husband does a lot because he saw that dynamic with his parents and did not want to be like that. Parenting seems to have that effect, either you do things because that‘s what you saw & learned OR you saw stuff and didn‘t like it and decided you never wanted to be that way. 🤷‍♀️ (edited) 4mo
47 likes54 comments
quote
AnneCecilie

Women‘s unpaid and undervalued care work stands as the single greatest wealth transfer in today‘s global economy. Without this provision of care, markets would crash, economies would grind to a halt, and men could not continue to dominate entire job sectors and institutional hierarchies. Without it, “the masculinization of wealth,” as writer and activist Gloria Steinem called it long ago, would be impossible.

Anna40 This is so true. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa This is the section that had me thinking about the 2 infrastructure bills. 1 for roads & bridges (great), the other for human infrastructure: child care, elder care (work women often do for free)…well that one would bankrupt the entire system and cost why too much to pass. so, women can just continue to do that unpaid labor for free. 🙄 4mo
46 likes2 comments
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AnneCecilie
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I had no idea that the wage gap started this early

#SheSaid

Dilara This is shoking, but also not very surprising, unfortunately! 4mo
45 likes1 comment
review
mandarchy
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Pickpick

On my list of reasons to love Litsy ⬆️ I appreciate so much groups like #shesaid and the fact that so many here are women.

Riveted_Reader_Melissa So very true! I think the fact that so many women are here is part of what makes it such a great and collaborative environment….and a low stress & fun social media outlet. 4mo
mandarchy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I went to an all girl school for 7 years and I believe it's important to have cohorts along gender lines and/or color, not as an act of seclusion, but as a source of power. It only works if it disrupts the system of privilege. I want to be careful though and welcome all voices, however I can't help but recognize and embrace the feminine space we have here. 4mo
mandarchy I read ahead and finished the book last night. This morning I had a great talk with my dad about it. I'm so lucky to still have my dad, but also that he loves to read and he's a great listener. I was telling him how some women are allowed anger like teachers, but not politicians. I just can't imagine how a man would have put up with another man breathing down his neck at the debates in '16. It was so bizarre and yet familiar. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @mandarchy Yes it was, and I think that‘s why women automatically commented on it… we felt and knew it was familiar. 4mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Interesting chapter #SheSaid about both how anger turned inwards can becomes pain and how pain is perceived and glossed over as unimportant especially in women. What are your thoughts on this one? Below are 2 quotes that stuck with me, but I highlighted many:

“By the time a woman reaches midlife, the most significant predictors of her general health are her levels of stress and where she ranks in terms of keeping her “anger in.””

Riveted_Reader_Melissa “the only tired I was, was tired of giving in.” - by Rosa Parks 4mo
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MallenNC This was an interesting chapter. I believe that repressing anger does cause health issues, so that made a lot of sense to me. I can‘t believe (but do) that doctors even now believe the myth that Black women don‘t feel pain. What has been done in the name of medical progress is horrific. 4mo
MallenNC This was an interesting chapter. I believe that repressing anger does cause health issues, so that made a lot of sense to me. I can‘t believe (but do) that doctors even now believe the myth that Black women don‘t feel pain. What has been done in the name of supposed medical progress is horrific. 4mo
MallenNC That quote from Rosa Parks is great. I‘ve read that before, but I was definitely led to believe in school that she didn‘t get up bc she was physically tired, not that she was a woman who was part of a larger effort. The quote you mentioned says it all. 4mo
KathyWheeler @MallenNC I had been taught that as well. I only read differently a few years ago. 4mo
KathyWheeler @MallenNC This poetry collection about surgical experiments done on enslaved Black women is very powerful and heartrending: https://smile.amazon.com/Mend-Poems-Contemporary-Poetry-Prose/dp/0813176271/ref=... 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @KathyWheeler That sounds heart-breaking…. Stacking for when I am in the right frame of mind for that one. 4mo
ravenlee This chapter reminded me of a lifetime of hearing “this is just normal for you” from every freaking doctor. My mom first took me to a (male) gyn at 13, two years into menstruation. I was regularly missing a day of school every month - because how can you go to class when you can‘t sit or stand? He recommended BCP but my mom thought I was too young and she‘d had bad experiences with them. Instead I started a series of painkillers 👇🏻 4mo
ravenlee that I progressively maxed out. I didn‘t get relief until I did start BCP at 19. In the interim, every single gyn told me it was “just normal for you, and you have to find a way to live with it.” I worry for my daughter that she‘ll have as rough a journey as I did, but I know how to advocate better for her than my mom did for me. (edited) 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee I understand that, my friend since HS‘s mom died…cancer…but for years she complained of pain in her abdomen, but was basically just told she was overweight and needed to loose weight. All that time she spent on WW and it was cancer growing 🙄 Still reminds me to advocate for myself if I feel something isn‘t right, to this day… 4mo
vlwelser This chapter reminded me of Invisible Women, how women aren't even thought about in terms of health care. I mean obviously we're all hysterical and any pain we experience is imagined. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser yes, it made me think of that one too. 4mo
ravenlee @Riveted_Reader_Melissa that‘s terrible. The intersection of being female and being overweight is one of the most dangerous for medical attention. My SIL recently had a hysterectomy for endometriosis/adenomyosis and it has been amazing the difference - but it took 20 years of pain and extreme suffering to get there. She had a good team and it was diagnosed early on but she was so young they tried to manage it until she had the kids she wanted. 4mo
ncsufoxes It does not surprise me but still shocking to think that the male anatomy & physiology is how most medical understanding & decisions are made about women‘s health. I had my gallbladder removed many years ago and about a year after the removal I started vomiting nonstop for hours. I had a fever & was shaking, my husband took me to the ER. They ran all sorts of tests & couldn‘t figure out what was wrong. At the time I was working in early 4mo
ncsufoxes intervention & doing home visits. The doctor said that I must have changed a baby‘s diaper & not cleaned my hands properly & got sick that way. I tried to explaining that first of all my job did not involve changing diapers & again that didn‘t happen. He wouldn‘t listen to me. I followed up with my surgeon & she told me that I had a very rare spasm that can happen after having a gall bladder removal & most doctors don‘t know about it, 4mo
ncsufoxes especially ER doctors. I was just so mad though that no one listened to me & made up a story to fit what they wanted to use as an explanation for why I was so sick. 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ncsufoxes I am frustrated and angry just reading that story! Bad enough to not listen and deny/downplay real problems…. But to make up a scenario to fit, even when you tell them that your job doesn‘t do that. (Because again they assume they know your job better than you and of course stereotypical women‘s work)… infuriating! 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ncsufoxes it would make me want to go and tell them, hey just FYI, this is what was actually wrong. You know, for future reference, so you can learn. 😉 4mo
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Julsmarshall
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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#audiobaking this morning. Decorating valentine cookies with ❤️💚💙💜💛 while listening to a book about women‘s rage is making me grin. We can fight the patriarchy while loving up our people at the same time. #shesaid

Gissy 🍪 😋 4mo
Simona 🤤😋They looks perfect! 4mo
KellyK Those look yummy and so pretty! 😋 4mo
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BethM Love it! And your cookies are beautiful! 4mo
ShelleyBooksie Beautiful 4mo
julieclair Lovely cookies on a pretty tablecloth! 4mo
Tera66 So beautiful! 4mo
67 likes7 comments
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AnneCecilie

A twelve-year longitudinal study, which assesses change over time, found a 70 percent increase in cancer-related deaths in people with highest scores for suppressing their negative emotions. A follow-up to a landmark 1989 study on this topic found that the survival rate for women with breast cancer who expressed their anger was twice that of women who kept their anger to themselves.

#SheSaid

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Another week, another thought-provoking chapter! I am liking the layout of this book, a personal story to illustrate the point, but then backed up with studies and research. How‘s everyone else making out with this selection so far?

#SheSaid

mandarchy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I got the book early and I've been reading ahead. I am finding it very readable, but some of the stories are intense and I have to pause. I just renewed it so I don't feel rushed to finish it. I was a little worried about that. 5mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa I‘ve also loved the quotes you‘ve all been posting, I feel like I‘m highlighting most of the book. (edited) 5mo
IndoorDame I‘m definitely impressed with how well researched but also how readable this is. I was shocked in this chapter by how young the age has gotten at which girls start restricting food. 35% of 5 year olds! Why aren‘t we sending our daughters the message that malnutrition during the growing years has lifelong health consequences and that their well-being matters more than looking any specific way? 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @mandarchy I understand that, I went through it on audiobook the first time (over a year ago), but this time I think I‘m benefiting from not only reading & highlighting it, but pausing after some spots to let it sink on a bit more…ruminate over it. I‘m also amazed at how much I had forgotten or buried in my attempts to be the “good girl” again. 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @IndoorDame Sadly because here, sometimes doctors and parents are telling them to watch their weight now. Plus as soon as they enter any social group, they compare and can be picked on for being too big, too tall, too whatever. 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @IndoorDame I wish we as a whole society were doing better with this. 5mo
mandarchy @IndoorDame I have been noticing little girls sneak food or lie to their parents about what they are eating. It's infuriating. 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @mandarchy So sad….they are already learning they need to lie & sneak to take care of their own needs and to make everyone else “happy”😢 5mo
ravenlee @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @IndoorDame @mandarchy sometimes it‘s the parents‘ influence. My SIL has had a rough relationship with food and weight probably her whole life (we‘re not close). She had gastric bypass years ago because she pushed for it, then was upset it didn‘t *miraculously* solve all her problems. She and my brother both got into Orange Theory Fitness and it seems to have made a big difference, but she‘s passed her issues on to 👇🏻 5mo
ravenlee their kids. Rather than learning to cook nutritious meals, the parents buy the OTF meals for themselves and I don‘t even know what their kids eat. When my oldest niece was in 8th grade and going to her first dance my mom was taking care of them. SIL had bought niece her first Spanx for the dance - but wouldn‘t get her a proper bra (all she had were sports bras). But she said niece definitely needed the Spanx. My mom took her bra shopping and 👇🏻 5mo
ravenlee didn‘t make her wear the Spanx for the dance. When SIL got back from the trip she was on at the time she was livid with my mom because “the pictures were ruined.” 5mo
IndoorDame @ravenlee so sad! I hate that so many women feel like they have to be “picture perfect” all the time, we definitely shouldn‘t be passing this stress on to the next generation. It‘s great that your nice has your mom as an influence to let her know it‘s okay to relax a bit 5mo
IndoorDame @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I wish we were doing better with this too. I was one of those kids who got that message from my doctors, parents and schoolmates even though looking back at photos of myself in grade school there was actually nothing wrong with my weight. But I think we‘re actually doing worse than when I grew up. & I t‘s tragic that the smaller is better attitude has been extended to women and girls of all ages with no room for logic 5mo
vlwelser This book is so easy to read. It's difficult to stop at one chapter. She does seem to keep pointing out things we should all be angry about. The thing that stuck out to me was that repressed anger manifests in other areas. 5mo
vlwelser And the body image stuff is ridiculous. I always think about it when I'm in meetings and the guys can't even seem to comb their hair but we're all expected to be picture perfect all the time. 5mo
MallenNC I like her approach to the material too, with the personal story and then examples/research. It‘s another book that I can‘t say I‘m “enjoying” because it does make me very mad, and especially sad for younger women and girls that these issues seem worse and not better. 5mo
ravenlee I‘m finding this book fascinating, and I‘m glad to be reading it slowly. I think I‘d get caught up in all of it and miss things if I weren‘t taking it one chapter at a time. Her presentation is so easy to follow, it‘s almost mesmerizing. 5mo
AnneCecilie I think what I will remember from this chapter was the guy who asked what the difference was between him showing his friends picture of his naked girlfriend and a toaster. We have such a long way to go when that is the attitude. Another chapter where she is making me angry. 5mo
KathyWheeler @AnneCecilie seriously! Apparently we aren‘t even human! (edited) 5mo
IndoorDame @KathyWheeler @AnneCecilie sadly, I wasn‘t shocked that someone said that, but what made me the angriest about that story is not one woman in that auditorium felt like they could respond - including the writer herself! 5mo
KathyWheeler @IndoorDame I know! I feel like things are getting worse that way too. When I was in college, some guy in class said that women were better equipped to do housework then men. I scoffed at him and said, “Nothing about me having a vagina makes me better equipped than you to push a vacuum cleaner.” And I was not the only woman who said something. That was in the 70s. Now woman are letting any asshole with a stupid opinion shut them up? WTH? 5mo
ravenlee @IndoorDame @KathyWheeler maybe some of it was just bafflement - because honestly, when some asshat says there‘s no difference between a woman and an appliance where do you even start? I can see being paralyzed by the difficulty. 5mo
IndoorDame @ravenlee @KathyWheeler I‘m not sure it matters what you say so much as that you say something. Because staying silent is tacit agreement that he‘s right, and funny, and more powerful than you are. Even when you don‘t say the “perfect” thing, speaking up lets people know that you‘re not okay with the status quo. 5mo
KathyWheeler @IndoorDame @ravenlee I can understand being so completely shocked by something that you don‘t even know where to start. That said, at least a WTF would have been better than complete silence. That really bothered me — and even from the teacher. (edited) 5mo
ncsufoxes I like the flow of the book. Like others have said above I like how she relates difficult subject matter to her experiences & then provides research evidence. I remembered an incident, a guy I was seeing in college I was at his family‘s house & someone said to me “are you anorexic?” At that time I was pretty skinny & I was taken aback that someone would mention my weight. I just laughed it off & said I had good metabolism. It feels like women 5mo
ncsufoxes can‘t win. 5mo
37 likes28 comments
blurb
AnneCecilie
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The belief that women should be babyish and childlike means that women physically infantilize themselves. The physical and emotional softness, smoothness, and suppleness that women pursue isn‘t only a matter of attractiveness. Looking perennially young means not looking as though we have successfully weathered life in such a way that we might have authority or have developed expertise, wisdom, and skills that are of value to us or the people

AnneCecilie around us. #SheSaid 5mo
BookLineNSinker Beautiful ❤️ 5mo
Magpiegem I needed to hear this today 5mo
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Gissy Agree with @Magpiegem 🙌 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa I loved this quote too! I‘ve been telling people who are 29, again🙄 lately… no, just consider it leveling up in life, you made it to the end of the level, collected all those experience points, defeated the bosses in your way, and you made it…be proud of leveling up! (edited) 5mo
AnneCecilie @Magpiegem @Gissy I couldn‘t agree more. I think it is something we need to hear every day. 5mo
AnneCecilie @Riveted_Reader_Melissa It had me thinking about all the makeup I wear when I go to work or downtown. We shouldn‘t be afraid to show our age, men aren‘t. 5mo
60 likes7 comments
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AnneCecilie
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eeclayton Shocking! 😳 5mo
48 likes1 comment
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mandarchy
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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I may be highlighting half the book and I've run ahead, because it's hard to put down, until you get so angry you have to put it down. #shesaid
Maybe when we get angry, we need to say, I want change. We need to think what do we want to change? I think this is why anger is a symptom of grief, some change we can't control.

42 likes1 comment
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Hello #SheSaid.

Anyone else loving this book and saying yes YES a few times? I am.

Already thinking you should give this book as gift to a few people… me too 😉.

Maybe every woman…?

I particularly liked how she linked the “good girl” syndrome to oppressing an entire group‘s feeling and responses for societal power. And that kindergarten story 😠

What struck you this week?

Suet624 Darn! I need to read the first and second parts this week. It looks great. 5mo
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tenar This read definitely had me reflecting on my childhood. I lived the arc the writer described- described as “bossy” as a toddler, quieter in the school years, expressive again as a teen.
My favorite quote was in the intro, “Anger is usually about saying ‘no‘ in a world where women are conditioned to say almost anything but ‘no‘.”

If you have a physical copy- what page number is the end of the main text? My ereader says the footnotes start at 40%!
5mo
AnneCecilie I love this book which is not surprising since I bought this after reading your daily quotes a few years back. I‘m also angry which I understand after reading this isn‘t very feminine of me. What stuck me is the argument of how getting angry is the first step to change things. (edited) 5mo
MallenNC @tenar The text in my physical copy ends on page 296 and there‘s another 100 pages of notes/index. 5mo
MallenNC I have had this book on my shelf almost since it came out and I am glad to finally be reading it. I liked how she used the story of her daughter and the boy who knocked down her castle. That was a great example of how women are socialized to do anything but be angry. I thought there were echoes of Invisible Women and The Seven Necessary Sins of Women and Girls 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @AnneCecilie I know, and I‘m getting just as much out of it this time. It might be one that as a women I need to re-read and re-remind myself of every few years. 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar Well we can‘t complain that it‘s not well researched! 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC And how we socialize young boys that girls should continue just to build for their knocking down pleasures and whims… she keeps building everyday and she knows what will happen so she must like it or she‘d do something else, she just works for his benefit. 😒 5mo
MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Yes! I was getting so mad for that little girl. Another thing that stood out to me in this section is that girls feel less confident in themselves after they go to school than before. That is awful. 5mo
vlwelser I love everything about this so far. I'm looking forward to digging in deeper. The google search part struck me the most. It makes you wonder who searches for these things and counts that as a win. 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @vlwelser If you click on the book title, one of our other readers looked up & posted CEO Barbie (with her microscopic mini) 5mo
vlwelser I saw that earlier. Who designs those? And for little girls? It's a little bit gross. 5mo
KathyWheeler I just got some insight into why I cry when I‘m angry instead of expressing my anger in a different way. I was always able to recognize that I was angry but was annoyed by the crying. 5mo
ravenlee I‘m really invested already, and have recommended it to my mother and sister. Agree with @KathyWheeler about the crying when angry. And as the parent of a daughter, that preschool story made me livid! I wanted to know what set off Chemaly‘s mother in the introduction, though. 5mo
ncsufoxes I watch my 6 year old daughter that has all the confidence in the world right now & sad to think over time that confidence will unfortunately fade. Because we know that it will take just one teacher or boy to do that, plus societies messages to girls (although I hope this changes). I never really thought about how much women are expected to suppress our anger & emotions. Whereas men that express anger is seen as a source of power. 5mo
ncsufoxes I also agree too that women are less likely to say no & we‘re also more likely to say sorry for everything. 5mo
BarbaraTheBibliophage Would you please take me off the list for the moment? I‘m super busy with a new job and just trying to manage reading obligations as a result. Thank you! 💕 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @BarbaraTheBibliophage Yes I can, and no problem. Good luck with the new job! 5mo
staci.reads @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar @AnneCecilie @MallenNC @vlwelser @KathyWheeler @ravenlee @ncsufoxes I am late to the discussion and just getting caught up today, but I keep taking pictures of passages and sending them to a female colleague/friend. We're dealing with some big frustrations at work, and she's been struggling with sleep and not eating lately. ⬇️ 5mo
staci.reads Just yesterday, she said to me "I think I'm angry. I'm just so angry and I don't know what to do with it." So when I opened up this today and started it, it was a revelation! I was moved by the line, "Anger is like water. No matter how hard a person tries to dam, divert, or deny it, it will find a way, usually along the path of least resistance... Women often 'feel' their anger in their bodies." 5mo
staci.reads I also loved "when we call our anger sadness instead of anger, we often fail to acknowledge what is wrong, specifically in a way that discourages us from imagining and pursuing change. Sadness, as an emotion, is paired with acceptance. Anger, on the other hand, invokes the possibility of change and of fighting back." 5mo
KathyWheeler @staci.reads I love the “anger is like water” quote. 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads I loved that part too, tell her to read this book…she needs it too (I think we all do), we‘ve been socialized into being the good girl so long, we can‘t even see our own angry (or we deny it). 5mo
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AnneCecilie
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On the day I was writing this, for example, I wondered what a girl would see if she searched for “women athletes.” The number one result was “The Top 50 Hottest Athletes of 2017.” In 2015 a search for “women CEOs” turned up, as the first image, not an actual woman but a picture of a Barbie doll. That‘s right. A Barbie doll whose name, by the way, is CEO Barbie.

(Picture found online)

TrishB I‘m getting angry just reading your posts never mind the whole book! 5mo
rockpools I kind of want to believe things are changing- so I tried it. 3rd result - top 60 hottest female athletes. I *guess* that‘s an improvement 😫 5mo
vlwelser CEO Barbie's skirt seems a little short. 5mo
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AnneCecilie
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AnneCecilie
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We learn to contain our selves: our voices, hair, clothes, and most importantly speech. Anger is usually about saying “no” in a world where women are conditioned to say almost anything but “no”. Even our technology incorporates these ideas, in deferential female-voiced virtual assistants (Siri, Alexa, and Cortana come to mind) for whom the responses “yes” and “what can I do for you?” are prime directives and raisons d‘être.

AnneCecilie Pictured are different Alexa devices. 5mo
staci.reads That was a passage that caught me too. 5mo
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Tera66
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#BookspinBingo #Doublespin
@TheAromaofBooks 💕💗💕
Here is my list for February, mostly brought over from January. I didn't get to my January #doublespin so I left it on here for February. I will be prioritizing To Paradise as pary of my Literati book club. It's not on the list because we won't finish until April, but I will also be reading the tagged book as part of the #Shesaid book club.

LeslieO Same here. I carried a lot over. 5mo
TheAromaofBooks Woohoo!! 5mo
Tera66 @LeslieO I think that is how it's going to be for me all year. I'm planning on leaving most of my picks on the list until they are read.😊 5mo
LeslieO @Tera66 Good plan! I try. But then the new and shiny catch my eye! 5mo
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ravenlee
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Starting this one this evening. #SheSaid

Because I wasn‘t already reading enough books. 🤦🏻‍♀️

MallenNC I need to get started on this! 5mo
tokorowilliamwallace The more to balance associatively, the better!---and for learning! See Maria Popova's methodological concept of the 'combinatorial creativity' instinct and sharpening tool for creatives, as widely cited and referenced on her website, Brain Pickings. Our brain already does this in the hippocampus with 'working memory,' as my reading in the book, Chatter just informed me (and I'm extrapolating, I guess). 5mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Up next for #SheSaid Rage Becomes Her!

Here is the schedule, see you all soon!

Suet624 I just looked in my library catalog for Rage Becomes Her. The first listing that popped up was Little Women. :) 5mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa @kspenmoll do you want me to take you off the tag list, or leave you on for now? 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Suet624 That‘s funny! 5mo
tenar Looking forward to it. Thank you for running our club, Melissa! 5mo
MallenNC I‘ve got my copy ready! Thanks for providing the schedule. 5mo
mandarchy Thank you for including me. I may not read every book shared here, but it's nice to have them on my radar. I started Rage becomes her a little early and I think it's important that women read it together. 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @mandarchy It‘s so good and really makes you think. 5mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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I just wanted to send all of #SheSaid an update, since I couldn‘t possibly stretch our current book over Jan & Feb, I will be starting our next book in Feb. “Rage Becomes Her”. It‘s a bigger book, but I‘m still planning on spacing it out a bit & hopefully still leave room for those of you also reading with The 1619 Project group read. I‘ll put out a more detailed schedule soon, but I wanted give you a heads up to update your library holds. 😉

ncsufoxes I‘d like to be added. I haven‘t read the upcoming book but I‘ve read two on the list & would look forward to discussing with others. Thanks! 6mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ncsufoxes Welcome Aboard! I will definitely add you to the tag list. Can‘t wait to see you in our discussions. 6mo
BookBosomed1 Thank you! 6mo
Tera66 I'm in for next month, and they have the book and audio book on Scribd if anyone has that app. 6mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Here‘s the most recent schedule @ravenlee 3mo
ravenlee Thanks. So we‘re not jumping right into a new read in a couple weeks, which is what I was trying to sort out for my April reading. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee actually you‘re right, I‘m wrong… I‘ll probably start the next one the week after we finish up the current book…..so mid-April. I hope that helps. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @AllDebooks here‘s the tentative schedule for books coming up later this year. We usually read 1 a month, but slowed it way down the beginning of this year because we had quite a few people reading with The 1619 project read too. 2mo
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MallenNC
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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We‘re reading this in the #SheSaid group in March.

#PersonVsAnger #ConflictedWorlds

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks 📚🙌🏻❤️ 10mo
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ilyssa.g
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Pickpick

I consider this such a neccessary, powerful feminist read!!! It's so well-researched, well-written and engaging. She voiced so many feeling and thoughts I've had and brought new perspectives to light. Chemaly does an excellent job realizing and writing about the intersectionality of issues and actively works on not letting her privilege blind her. She vividly paints the reality of being a woman, but also presents a sense of hope and solutions.

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Riveted_Reader_Melissa
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Another #12BooksOf2020 (you get 2 today since I forgot yesterday). Little did I realize back in February what a mixed up crazy year 2020 would become, or how grateful I‘d be to have read this book before it all went surreal. Staying sane in an insane world means being in touch with your feelings, even the socially unacceptable ones, and this book explains why so many women are cut off from some of theirs and how to own them and use them again.

Andrew65 Sounds interesting. 1y
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CoffeeK8
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🌺 4 books read this past week
🌺 3 written by women
🌺 1 BIPOC author
🌺 1 audiobook
🌺 2 library books
#bookreport #weeklyreading

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CoffeeK8
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Pickpick

An important discussion of the way women‘s rage defines them and how the inability to display rage hurts us allZ

Riveted_Reader_Melissa Great book! 2y
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CoffeeK8
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Today‘s weather is amazing! South a great day for an extra long walk!

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guinsgirlreads
Rage Becomes Her | Soraya Chemaly
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Going to try to get into this one next!

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