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Hood Feminism: Notes from the Women That a Movement Forgot
Hood Feminism: Notes from the Women That a Movement Forgot | Mikki Kendall
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#SheSaid it‘s been another week and a whole month too!

How‘d you like the book overall? How about the last few essays? Any quotes that stood out to you? Anything you want to talk about, discuss, agree with, disagree with.

There was lots to think about in this book, and I appreciated that it made me think about many issue more thoughtfully, fully, interconnectedly (if that makes sense).

fredthemoose Thanks for organizing! I liked but didn‘t love the book. She includes a lot of fair criticisms in terms of thinking more broadly about what social issues feminism and feminists care about and which people they are serving. I thought her writing was strongest when it gave clear examples (e.g., mainstream feminist groups asking her to speak about reproductive rights after her hemorrhaging experience) and less so when the assertions were more general (edited) 3mo
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fredthemoose To me sometimes it seemed like she included all white women in her conceptualization of feminism (I think because all have benefited from feminism?) but I definitely know some white women who would be horrified to be called feminist, and I‘m not sure mainstream feminism should be asked to answer for the behavior of all white women without providing a more clear framework of who she includes in her critiques and why. (edited) 3mo
ravenlee I agree with @fredthemoose - I also liked but didn‘t love it. One criticism I have - I don‘t think it‘s possible as an activist of any stripe to address everything, and I feel like that was kind of the message here. Maybe it‘s just about broadening general awareness, but it was overwhelming. I can‘t blame feminists who specialize in one or two aspects of the cause (I get that one of Kendall‘s criticisms is the idea of focusing on white women) 👇🏻 3mo
tenar Overall I struggled with the way these essays were structured internally, but I think reading against some resistance helped me pull some good bits out of this book I may not have otherwise. I think I could have read it complacently, as I agreed with just about everything argued here.

I wish the essays would have included more of other women‘s stories when the author didn‘t have direct experience. More “notes from the women the movement forgot”
tenar From this last section, I was deeply impressed with the time she took in the essay on abortion rights to tackle the nuances of abortion, eugenics, and disability. Often the existence and rights of disabled adults - those disabled kids grown up - is not even acknowledged.

The quote from the end that I loved and thought summed up the whole collection was, “We must be careful not to come in as gentrifiers of the feminism that comes out of survival.”
ravenlee (at the expense of the rest, so that‘s still a problem) and we do need to understand how it all goes together, but I find it hard to extrapolate how to turn this awareness into action. This isn‘t a how-to, of course, and all the different issues that should fall under feminism are important and I appreciate the info, but I‘m kind of at a loss about how to go forward. 3mo
tenar @fredthemoose You‘ve articulated this well, I agree. Re: Trump voting, it‘s been shown one of the best predictors of voting for him was a belief in “hegemonic masculinity”. This held for all genders and sometimes predicted voting patterns better than party membership. Those beliefs are opposed to feminist beliefs. May be worth questioning whether it‘s productive to hold white feminists to task for the actions of white women who are against them. 3mo
tenar @ravenlee Sorry I posted my posts right in the middle of your posts! 😰 You‘ve explained something I was feeling last week- overwhelm at the breadth and the depth of the problems discussed. It must be hard to balance giving an sweeping overview with helping a reader feel energized and capable. 3mo
fredthemoose @ravenlee I totally agree about the overwhelm! I think it‘s fair to critique a movement and ask for it to think more broadly in terms of who it serves and how, but sometimes it seems that she would have rather feminism hadn‘t achieved anything for women than achieved incomplete and imperfect victories. That can‘t be the end, and maybe shouldn‘t even have been the beginning of the movement, but those victories are still valuable. 3mo
fredthemoose @tenar Thank you—and I totally agree about reading through resistance. I was glad to have been reading for this discussion because it made me interrogate where I felt it and why. Thanks for pulling out and sharing that quote! 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar I like that she tackled the disability issue head-on too. As much as she covered a lot, I also didn‘t feel like she left out important details like that either. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa This book made me think back to The Poor People‘s Campaign that Martin Luther King Jr started after the Civil Rights Campaign and how much all the issues of food, housing, education, are interrelated and still are unsolved all these years later. 3mo
ravenlee @tenar no worries! I didn‘t see anything until my second post showed, and then it was both yours and @fredthemoose ‘s second post - the vagaries of the internet! 3mo
ravenlee @tenar that essay about abortion and how it also needs to factor in services to support those fetuses when they become children and then adults - man, that is definitely the rest of what the “pro-life” movement needs to figure out. They‘re not pro-life, they‘re pro-birth. That essay was one of the best, in my opinion. 3mo
MallenNC What I liked about this book was that she was asking people to broaden their ideas of what issues should be considered feminist, and that they go beyond the workplace and reproductive rights. And that mainstream feminists should consider the whole of someone‘s life before criticizing. I think like any essay collection, some of the sections were stinger than others. I‘m glad I read it. 3mo
KathyWheeler I loved the essay on reproductive rights. It seems to me that she was at her best here; nothing was confusing or unclear. In most of the book though, I found “white feminism” to be this large, amorphous entity. It might have helped if she been more specific. And she also seemed to equate white feminism with all white women. I liked her call for feminism to think more broadly, but no movement can work on fixing all of society; it‘s overwhelming. (edited) 3mo
Singout Yes to what others have said about how important and engaging the piece on reproductive rights is. It‘s far more than just whether foetuses live or die: I thought the element about how the disability rights language can be manipulated in the interest of maintaining the status quo re abortion is very telling. 3mo
megnews What @fredthemoose & @ravenlee said. I had posted my rambling feelings about generalizations & calling people who aren‘t feminists feminists a couple weeks ago when I was struggling to push through as @tenar mentioned. (Marked as spoilers.) I also expected the book to have more POVs from the subtitle. She gave me something to think about re: intersectionality of feminism & poverty. I have never looked at it that way and considered myself an 👇🏻 3mo
megnews ☝🏻ally against poverty long before I would have considered calling myself a feminist. At times the message seemed off course. There was one late chapter that didn‘t mention feminism til the end and I felt more like I was reading an anti racism and/or education etc activist book than a feminist book. We can look at history & today & see the division in the movement but I‘m not sure this book clearly portrayed that throughout. Perhaps overly 👇🏻 3mo
megnews ☝🏻and needed more focus. 3mo
AnneCecilie The essay about abortion was my least favorite one. Maybe because the difference between US and Norway are so huge on this matter? Almost every abortion in Norway is done within the first 6 weeks so the ability or disability of the fetus doesn‘t matter, there are other reasons behind it. That doesn‘t mean that I don‘t agree with her on that disabled kids/ adults need help. My favorite essay where the ones about stereotypes, again maybe because 2mo
AnneCecilie they are more easily transferable? I thought this book should have a broader view on feminism but it felt very American. A lot of the issues she discusses won‘t be an issue everywhere, like quitting school because of gun violence. And there are also countries that have safety nets when it comes to poverty and housing. This book felt very from her perspective and her experiences. I didn‘t read the blurb, but I guess I was expecting something 2mo
AnneCecilie different. Sorry for my rambling thoughts. 2mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @AnneCecilie Nope, they made perfect sense to me, no rambling. It‘s hard sometimes when picking books, and we‘ve had a bunch focus on US history and issues lately. We‘ll have to see if we can broaden our scope when we pick the next group. 2mo
AnneCecilie @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Normally I have no problem with that. I think it was just the subtitle that made me expect something different. 2mo
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Another week has flown by, how did we get almost finished with this book #SheSaid

These essays remain strong for me, and that first one is sticking with me hard. How about you, any sticking really hard in your psyche this week?

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I definitely have Trump loving, COVID denying family members who I know are part of a larger societal problem, and sadly, I feel more like I‘m trying to reprogram a cult member than confronting someone‘s bigoted attitude most of the time…but with all the talk of keeping the peace in the family and leaving politics outside…I‘ve found that harder and harder to do, and that first essay in this section really resonated with me this week. Maybe I‘m ⤵️ 3mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️looking at the whole think backwards. Instead of feeling like I‘m failing at being the “good” daughter/sibling/cousin while biting my tongue and basically just avoiding some of them, I‘m failing at confronting them instead. Flip the script basically on my perceptions and what I own to people (edited) 3mo
Singout Yes, me too. I think it‘s really important for women who self identify as feminists to be committed to not hiding behind whiteness and the privilege it brings when it makes them more secure and comfortable. I don‘t have the same issues in Canada as people living under Trump did in the States but there are lots of forms of oppression that need to be challenged here too. 3mo
Singout I could also really identify with the housing essay because I live in a rapidly gentrifying diverse low income neighborhood, and I‘m at risk of losing my own housing, so it‘s an issue I‘ve been doing a lot of thinking and reading about. I really liked what she said about the importance of security and everyday needs of long-term residents being more important then introducing new jobs/“culture” at their expense. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Singout Yes… we have that problem here too. It‘s always about bringing in new whatever to revitalize (and usually giving them tax credits to move here) while the current residents suffer with little gov‘t help. It probably didn‘t resonant as much from Canada as it did here, but the issues are the same…about portraying some areas as not thriving because companies have moved out (rush belt), but framing the discussion of inner cities differently⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ I couldn‘t help but think that applied to reservations too, that have never gotten the infrastructure & support they needed. And now after reading Seven Feathers, I know that problem exists in Canada too. 3mo
Singout Absolutely. So much injustice done towards First Nations: a huge number don‘t even have potable drinking water, and definitely get blamed for wanting to stay on their own land if they can‘t “contribute to the economy.” 3mo
megnews I I‘ve always been very interested in education and housing issues so those essays resonated with me the most. I struggled with some of the reading this week. I learned the word advocate in about third grade when my principal called me one and I didn‘t know what it meant. I‘ve always been the one with the big mouth who stood up to racist family members and “ruined” everyone‘s holidays. I guess when I see people post about dreading ⬇️ 3mo
megnews ⬆️holidays being racist great aunt karen is going to be there I thought it was because they were fellow holiday ruiners. Perhaps not? The author gives us an assignment to push back on that even at the cost of others‘ comfort. We have to. How can this ever change if not? I used to be loud about it. And my girls are now. I try to teach them what I‘ve learned over the years to be armed with indisputable facts (less feeling) and as little ⬇️ 3mo
megnews ⬆️abrasive as possible so people will hear your message and not the passion they interpret as anger or worse yet crazy. I‘ve flagged a lot this week and keep going back to read sections. 3mo
tenar Two of the essays in this section are, I think, my favorites so far. Education and Housing. The Education essay really moved me; we‘re failing kids of color and disabled kids terribly by investing badly-needed school dollars into police presence. And the Housing essay had me researching more on public housing, and reminded me of the work of Catherine Flowers in sewage and sanitation problems right here in the US. Been meaning to read her book 3mo
megnews I have Seven Fallen Feathers in next months‘ tbr. Looking forward to it. 3mo
tenar Reading y‘all‘s comments and thinking about what we‘ve read, I feel terribly overwhelmed by just how much we‘re Not investing in our futures. Housing, education, infrastructure, health. All lacking terribly. The safety net is like a couple of cords you hit on your way down, not really functional. I‘m definitely going to have to process these feelings and try to make some fuel for change from them. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar I heard something similar when they were discussing the 2 current infrastructure bills, roads & bridges and human infrastructure…the comment was that the second bill is seen as so liberal & controversial here, but in any other modernized/westernized country it wouldn‘t be considered radical at all, but basic and easy to pass. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @megnews I read it earlier this year with #NonfictionNerds. And she‘s right, the struggle for potable water is real, and decent schools, etc. So sad. But I can‘t say we are much better. Flint is still struggling with potable water and it‘s not the only city. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @megnews no, I dread family get togethers because it‘s just me in a sea of Republicans…and they are family that I grew up with and mostly love, but they will definitely gang up on you with their weird mis-information facts. I‘ve had FB fights over the confederate flag with my aunt, and the advice to me is usually to just ignore their posts, but when I unfriended them because I don‘t want to see it and be silent, I‘m the crazy one. ⤵️ (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ it really is a no-win situation. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @tenar That stuff eats at me. We refuse to educate or provide basics like health care, but yet somehow think we are an exceptional country and will continue to be so while basically unfunding any new generations of leaders, scientists, etc. if we can not provide for the children of this country, how can they grow up to be better, smarter, better prepared, etc. (edited) 3mo
MallenNC @tenar The education and housing essays stuck with me too. I like how she frames these as feminist issues. Affordable housing is becoming so scarce in my city now, and the school to prison pipeline is real. We didn‘t have school cops when I was in school, so I hadn‘t realized that what kids used to just get “in trouble for” can now send them to court. 3mo
MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I‘m so sorry for your family situation. It is hard when they don‘t want to listen. I have a very small family now, and I‘m lucky that my circle of friends is pretty much on the same page with me. But extended family and high school friends are another story but these aren‘t people I interact with much. 3mo
MallenNC I saw this story about “Dads on Duty” after reading the education chapter. It seems like a possible better option if it could be expanded. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dads-louisiana-high-school-student-violence/ 3mo
megnews @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I had to unfriend some family members for the same issue. Also ones who post Christian stuff in between trump supporting posts. I just can‘t. I‘m sorry you‘re so outnumbered in your family. 3mo
megnews @MallenNC I just saw this on tiktok. 😂 but I did think it was an amazing solution!! 3mo
Tera66 @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I also am the black sheep in a sea of Republicans in my family, I have pretty much avoided FB because of it. I don't want to "fight" with my family but the misinformation and gaslighting gets under my skin. I'm definitely guilty of not speaking up to avoid the fight. 3mo
Tera66 And I'm with everyone, the essays on Education and Housing definitely resonated with me. I'm in Denver and housing prices are ridiculously high, and forgot trying to buy anything. Homelessness has exploded. And the Education piece broke my heart, I've experienced and witnessed the bullying and biase in classrooms, no student or child deserves this. 3mo
ravenlee I‘m traveling at the moment and didn‘t get to this week‘s section. I‘ll see all y‘all next week! 3mo
KathyWheeler While I understand her point about pushing back, it‘s been my experience that there‘s no way to change these people‘s minds. They don‘t listen to anything you say no matter how grounded your argument is in facts. Facts aren‘t important to these family members. Pushing back just feels futile. I quit talking to my brother after he said my husband belonged in an insane asylum for his views that support housing and health security for everyone. (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @KathyWheeler I feel this so much. Even where something like COVID is concerned, neither I nor my BSN RN mother can convince my brother to be vaccinated or to vaccinate his daughters…because he heard/saw/read “reasons”. And if we can‘t even break through the misinformation on something that could directly & detrimentally effect him…any hope I had of cutting through the misinformation & spin on larger social issues is pretty much nonexistent. ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ it‘s painful. I still try to talk with him about that, but get no-where. And living in the red area we live in, most of his friends all believe the same thing, reinforce it to each other, and I‘m the crazy/living in fear one. It truly can make you feel like you are crazy or in this case feel like you must be a hypochondriac at times. Pure insanity, living surrounded by those not living in reality. And the funny thing is, a few years ago.. (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa …I would have thought, well we don‘t agree on everything, but science is safe…Nope, not any more. Surreal times, that has only made the gap worse. (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Tera66 I use to have to put my family in the FB “time out corner” every election cycle. Basically check a box not to see their stuff for awhile (say 6 months), then it was usually safe to converse again. Now the election season/cycle never ends…I had to unfriend most of them. (edited) 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa yeah, I would have thought science was safe too, but no. My brother is also one of these people who aggressively believes what he believes and calls you stupid and other names if you believe differently. It‘s sad. 3mo
megnews @KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa my dad is a Fox News on 24/7, worship everything trump says. The founding father worship is real. This is why I taught my kids real history at home because knowing it helps with today‘s arguments. Here‘s how I handled the vaccine debate. “How do you think the founding fathers would handle it?” Generally when I throw a question back in his court he either doesn‘t answer or spews something I can tell he heard ⬇️ 3mo
megnews ⬆️ fox or online. I can‘t recall which that time. Then I told him during the Revolutionary war smallpox outbreak Washington insisted on vaccination of all soldiers and did it first himself as an example. Adams led by example in this area as well. At that point I get dumbfounded looks and no further response. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @megnews Right, and when you explain Trump and his whole family are vaccinated, and every employee at FOX news must be it‘s crickets and then usually a, ‘well, Im not doing it because xYZ crazy agreement‘. My one uncle said he won‘t get it because they keep pushing it on people, what do they have to gain pushing it on people so hard, someone‘s making money off this. Uh, they push because they don‘t want people to die 🙄 and you are paying ⤵️ (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ nothing….the gov‘t bought for all its citizens to protect them. 3mo
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Another week had flown by #SheSaid and this grouping of chapters/essays continues to impress me. She has done a great job here showing how attitudes and words we mean to be empowering can in fact do the opposite. Something I think we can all relate too. There is usually a “strong” one in every family and someone who seems to constantly screw up and gets bailed out repeatedly, but if the strong one makes a mistake it‘s worse, 🙄

Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ because they knew better, were more responsible, etc. I don‘t think I realized just how much we were stereotyping that and using those wedges on whole races…and putting all the “strength” and responsibility onto the shoulders of those who have the least societal power and whom we should be bearing some of their load instead of visa versa. 3mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa I also found myself in these chapters thinking of recent examples for all of them that have happened since this book was printed. I couldn‘t help reading about Serena Williams and thinking about Simone Biles and how she was treated by many for trying to take care of herself and her mental health in a very similar way to Serena trying to take care of her physical health. That her performance was owed to the American people, her body ours to win⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ win medals with and accolades for a country that didn‘t much care when she was being abused in that same gymnastic program. And again I thought of the current Gabby Petito coverage for days, and how wrong that case is, how it could have been ignored so long (my god he came back in her car to the home they lived in together, and everyone including his family & law enforcement just shrugged), only to also know that that coverage is rare and ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ only for a privileged few that our society/media find sympathy worth, or justice worthy. ☹️ 3mo
MallenNC Yes, the main theme I saw in this section was how dangerous the “strong Black woman” stereotype is bc it allows people to ignore issues and not offer help. The chapter on the unequal treatment of missing women has been sadly apparent in recent coverage of Gabby Petito, but it‘s not a new issue at all. I really like Kendall‘s voice in these essays. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC I know, and sadly as bad as Petito‘s story is, it‘s almost hard to grasp that at least she got coverage, attention from keyboard sleuths, maybe eventually some justice (if we are lucky). The statistics on Native women have been horrible for a long time, and sadly not getting any better. Plus they somehow fall into a loophole between US law enforcement and Reservation law enforcement, where perpetrators seem to walk free once they ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ cross an invisible line on a map put there by humans. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa *I should add here, not just the US. From what I‘ve read the pattern is the same in Canada 3mo
MallenNC The first time I ever heard of Missing White Woman Syndrome was Lacey Petersen. At least I‘ve read that Gabby‘s family is using the notoriety of her case to try to help others who‘ve gotten less publicity. 3mo
BkClubCare Great comments, discussion. I have been wanting to yell at the TV updates on the Petito case, “what about all the other missing women?!” 3mo
megnews Having grown up during the period of John McEnroe having temper tantrums and throwing rackets, the Serena Williams situation really ticks me off. I NEVER tell anyone how strong they are and if I never hear it again, it‘ll be too soon. All it means is people have done some crappy stuff to you that you‘ve found some way to survive. 3mo
Karisa Agreed! Our local news has been pointing out the disparity of coverage often with this case and using the moment to shift to other missing person cases that are not getting the same visibility. It needs to happen more often. The air time reflects our society‘s values. I‘m struggling with this book a bit. I liked it at first but feels repetitive now. I think it‘s because she always starts with a personal narrative. Somehow it‘s annoying my brain😅 3mo
Karisa I know her points are valid though. Probably just me 🤷🏻‍♀️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @megnews 😂funny, I feel the same way about strong & people who say you are such a great multitasker… it‘s usually just a backhanded compliment to give you more stuff to handle because you are soooo good at handling it, never an invitation to take some of the load off before you crumble. (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Karisa Maybe you are.reading them too close together. Maybe try spreading them out this week and read one every other day? See if that helps? Sometimes that helps me, sometimes not with these type of essay books that have multiple essays on similar interrelated themes. 3mo
Karisa @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Yep, I‘ll try that. Too much at once and all the essays blur together. Thanks! 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Karisa You are welcome, I hope it helps. I know I had that with a book earlier on (I can‘t remember which one at the moment unfortunately), but it seemed to help somewhat. Read together they seemed repetitive, but separated out they supported each other and were interrelated but separate essays. 3mo
ravenlee I was thinking of Simone Biles and also Naomi Osaka while reading about Serena Williams, and about how toxic the cultures seem to be in tennis and gymnastics. The more of these essays I read the more I see not just Audre Lorde‘s torch being passed but also some of Maya Angelou. 3mo
ravenlee I‘ve also been forcibly reminded of the ridiculousness going on the Carroll, Texas school system right now, and how Texas is trying so hard to force a particularly narrow perspective of history (Heather Cox Richardson did a great write-up on this today on her Facebook/blog and why it matters in a national and historic sense). 3mo
megnews @ravenlee so in Texas anything they teach they have to teach the other side to neutralize the message. I heard a secretly taped teachers meeting the other day where a teach asked “So when I teach the Holocaust?” How do you teach the other side to neutralize that. It‘s ridiculous. I can‘t wait til teachers catch on where they can only teach abstinence, to neutralize the message by teaching contraception too! 3mo
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#SheSaid discussion time!

Riveted_Reader_Melissa I have only read the first two, so I‘ll comment on the rest this afternoon when I get to sit down and finish them. Sorry, about that. I‘m still finding these very thought provoking, and applicable to me as well. So much so in the body, developing, shaming essay…the good girl/bad girl dynamic is so entrenched in our society, and no one can meet that standard. No matter what happens, there will be 1 reason you failed and deserved XYZ.⤵️ (edited) 3mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️The blaming the victim thing is imposible to beat, because no matter what the situation can be picked apart to blame them for something, therefore not a “good” girl, and victims fault. I‘m seeing the same thing with racism though…Trayvon Martin is the example I always think of here…he‘s walking with tea & Skittles, but as soon as he‘s dead, the media is all over …he wasn‘t innocent, he got caught with pot in school… but come on, that isn‘t a ⤵️ (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ death sentence, isn‘t even illegal in many states…and it had 0 to do with the night he was murdered, but yet it‘s offered up like an justification. 3mo
AnneCecilie There was so many things that was recognizable in these essays. As women we are always met with expectations in how to look and how to behave, and no matter what we do we end up doing something wrong. And this is no matter our skin color or race or religion or what ever. But I never given much thought to that having a different skin color than white, you will meet this from two sides, both within your community and outside, and how these ⬇️ 3mo
AnneCecilie expectations might differ, making it impossible to make everyone “happy”. When it comes to victim blaming the BBC made a thing a couple of years ago where they had two policewomen talk to man after he had lost/ had is expensive watch stolen, and they ask him the same questions victims of rape are asked. Did you wear those clothes? Where you drunk? etc. They really made it clear of how it‘s not the victims fault. 3mo
megnews @AnneCecilie I love that experiment! 3mo
megnews From the first essay, I really loved learning about Rosa Parks civil rights activism as early as 1944, 11 years before she refused to move on the bus. From the third essay, I loved this quote about respectability: “We point to the suits and ties and dresses worn during the Civil Rights movement and ignore that the people in them were still beaten, still arrested, still lynched.” I stopped and reread that quote several times. It was powerful. 3mo
Megabooks @AnneCecilie I love that experiment as well. @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I‘m tagging the book I‘m currently reading as it talks a lot about gender violence too. I‘m currently so deep into Hill‘s book that I‘m conflating it with Kendall‘s book. 3mo
Megabooks @megnews I remember I learned as a kid that Parks sat down because she was tired, as if she were an overworked maid or mammy. It wasn‘t until I was out of college that I started learning about her activism. I don‘t know if it was that I grew up in the South or that was just how it was framed in the 80s/90s, but it was a real disservice to her and her legacy. (edited) 3mo
MallenNC Hi everyone! I was offline today so just got a chance to check in here. I am enjoying this book especially on audio b/c it‘s read by the author. I think the first essay in this section was my favorite. But the one on How to Write about Black Women made me glad we‘re reading this. It underscores the need for her perspective. 3mo
ravenlee The parts that really stood out to me (which, in large part, stood out as examples of how Kendall is carrying Lorde‘s torch) included, from the Fasttailed Girls essay, “Any system that makes basic human rights contingent on a narrow standard of behavior pits potential victims against each other and only benefits those who would prey on them.” 3mo
MallenNC @Megabooks I learned the same myth about Rosa Parks, until I was older too. I think it really minimized her as well. I am also in the South so I don‘t know if that was a widely taught “lesson” or not. 3mo
ravenlee And how the It‘s Raining Patriarchy essay was so clearly a continuation of the message from Lorde about sexism within the Black community. Same idea, different times, same problems. The idea of men trying to force the respect at home that they don‘t get in the outside world…that was a big idea for me. 3mo
ravenlee Also in the Raining essay I was struck by the mention of how victims “ruin” a man‘s life by reporting assault; and I thought of all the mamas on social media during the #MeToo moment railing against girls who could ruin their sons‘ lives (mostly moms of kids, worried about the future) by crying rape. Instead, raise your sons to be unimpeachable in their conduct and there won‘t be any opportunity for the allegation! 3mo
KathyWheeler I particularly liked the section on beauty standards. Most women find American beauty standards impossible to live up to because they are so narrow, but the added pressure on Black women from both inside and outside their communities seems insurmountable. 3mo
KathyWheeler @ravenlee I always found that argument to be ludicrous. No ma‘am, no sir — your son ruined his own life by assaulting a woman. She didn‘t ruin it by reporting it. (edited) 3mo
ravenlee @MallenNC @Megabooks as a kid in the ‘80s/‘90s I remember that, too, although I think it was that she was physically tired and then tired of the BS so she refused to move. I was overseas in a base school, so no South defense there. Either it was the accepted myth or we were “too young” to be taught activism. 3mo
ravenlee @KathyWheeler I had a friend who had a daughter with two sons and a son who was early 20s and living with her. She told me if a girl ever claimed she was pregnant with son‘s baby she‘d demand a paternity test (and claimed it wasn‘t accusatory or rude); but she was mad as a hornet that her daughter‘s second husband wanted a paternity test for her second son because the daughter‘s word should be good enough. I still don‘t understand the hypocrisy. 3mo
KathyWheeler @ravenlee 😳. I don‘t get the hypocrisy there at all. And how could she say it wasn‘t accusatory or rude? She clearly knows that it is, or she wouldn‘t be so mad that her daughter‘s second husband wanted one. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa So sorry I was out most of the weekend. I loved all these essays and the discussion here has been great. @MallenNC @Megabooks @megnews @ravenlee I learned the same thing about Rosa Parks in Pennsylvania. First it just goes to show how standardized all the teaching material is, but, and this is the important part, I think it was framed that way because then she was the “good girl” who was just tired and started a movement….not an instigator⤵️ (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ or troublemaker (like those “bad” kids at lunch counters having sit ins and marches). Although now we see it as diminishing her work & legacy, I think at the time it was put in our textbooks, it was spun that way to make it more compelling and relatable…understandable…innocent I guess. That perception was needed I‘m sure at the time to make it a rallying cry/act. 3mo
Megabooks @ravenlee I read the tagged book by Anita Hill today, and she talked about how particularly in the Black community that Black victims accusing Black men of sexual assault is keeping a good man down and not looking at the broader community. It was interesting reading the two books on back-to-back days. But like Kendall, she also talked about the broader patriarchy for people of many races and gender identities. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Megabooks I really want to read that book too. I loved her Speaking Truth To Power and it‘s amazing to me that the letters she got from women after her testimony has led her on this path of exposing sexual harassment and now sexual violence. It‘s scary in a way, to have your life shaped by something someone did to you, but she has embraced it as a calling. I‘m torn between reading it immediately and/or adding it to our reading group for next yr (edited) 3mo
Megabooks @Riveted_Reader_Melissa agree. There was always something saintly about Parks that wasn‘t that way even with King and certainly not other civil rights leaders. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @megnews I highlighted that same quote about respectability politics. It was so powerful. And it‘s the same for that, “what were you wearing question”. How your dressed won‘t protect you. It‘s a lie we tell ourselves to feel like we can control sexism or racism. But rapists or racist don‘t care what you‘re wearing. And it‘s a lie they use to control us, to blame the victim…if you‘d been more “respectable” this wouldn‘t have happened to you. 3mo
Megabooks @Riveted_Reader_Melissa it would definitely have good discussion points. I haven‘t read her other book, but I plan to. It is just amazing how Hill took the role and ran with it. I remember watching the hearings, but I was only 11 and didn‘t get it yet. Monica Lewinsky was also forced to embrace a role based on public opinion. Do you get HBO? I was going to watch the documentary 15 minutes of shame that Monica executive produced. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Megabooks @megnews @ravenlee one more thing about Rosa Parks that I didn‘t learn until much later. She wasn‘t the first to refuse to move, it was a nonviolent tactic others had used, she‘s just the one who became famous for it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin (because of “respectability politics” even) ⤵️ (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa “Colvin's case was dropped by civil rights campaigners because Colvin was pregnant with a child out of wedlock during the proceedings.[6][7] It is now widely accepted that Colvin was not accredited by civil rights campaigners at the time due to that notion, with even Rosa Parks saying "If the white press got ahold of that information, they would have [had] a field day. They'd call her a bad girl, and her case wouldn't have a chance."[6][8]” 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Megabooks I‘d like to see it eventually, but I don‘t have HBO. And yes, Monica was another one vilified because of something that was done to her. If any student/intern today had sex with a much older married boss/professor….we‘d immediately read it as a power difference with the power of an authority figure translating to an abuse of power in the relationship. But then, like Anita, the ideas of harassment were so new in the public conscience 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee @KathyWheeler That “ruining HIS life” will forever make me think of Brock Turner now….and with disgust. We need to start saying they ruined their own lives with their behavior. It‘s funny how they don‘t seem to see it until it effects them regarding the lady with sons & daughters. Did either of you see or remember the commercial about what you should do when a girl is drunk? 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa It always makes me think of Brock Turner too. That‘s the first time I‘ve seen that commercial. Thanks for the link. 3mo
Tera66 Hey, friends! This is my first time joining you all. Thanks for the invite @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I have so many thoughts about this book and have loved reading all your comments today. Hopefully I can put them all together for next time and do better at joining the conversation. I feel like I'm highlighting half the book. 😊 3mo
megnews @MallenNC @megabooks @ravenlee @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @kathywheeler I learned the same thing about Parks in Ohio. I don‘t know if I was taught she was tired of the BS or my little activist ❤️ interpreted it that way but I always thought she was tired of being treated that way. I also did not learn about Colvin until I was an adult. In regards to the ruin his life argument, clearly it‘s not even true. Thomas & Kavanaugh were confirmed to the ⬇️ (edited) 3mo
megnews ⬆️ highest court in the land and we‘ve had a President elected after being caught on tape admitting “grabbing women by their pussies.” The internal emotional damage a woman subjected to sexual assault is so much more compared to the phantom consequences a man is alleged to face. (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @megnews I agree. We need it to be reframed in our society…badly. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Tera66 Welcome! You can join in this conversation anytime. People jump on and off as they finish the section, or think of something else they want to talk about. And yes, so much highlighting! 3mo
megnews @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I just realized my statement is backward. The phantom consequences are nothing compared to what the woman goes through. I fixed it. (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @megnews I didn‘t even notice 😂. But glad you fixed it anyway, I would have done the same. 3mo
rjsthumbelina @ravenlee I agree, the talk about black men trying to regain the respect at home that they don't get in society was impactful. People will take power from anywhere they can, especially if they don't get much of it 3mo
rjsthumbelina @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I think one point that Kendall really drives home in this section (without even having to come out and say it) is this: in the context of racism and sexism, the abusers/perpetuators use so much gaslighting to try to convince others that they've done something wrong to deserve the way they're treated. "If only you were prettier/wearing more clothes/acted more respectably" 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @rjsthumbelina Yes, and I think that‘s even true about your first comment, and the way she explained it….you have to be submissive to me at home to sooth my ego, my feelings of oppression/inadequacy, and if you don‘t you are a bad woman and I‘ll find another. So it‘s your fault if I cheat, am abusive, etc. It‘s all gaslighting to feel power over someone else. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @rjsthumbelina What about women‘s feelings of oppression and/or suffering, are we just supposed to keep passing the buck downhill to the children, and the children to the pets. I‘ve always hated the excuse of a bad childhood for bad adult behavior, this is another cycle of violence to me, but you always have a choice…if you hate the way you were treated as a child (or in this case in the outside world), you have a choice to decide to never be ⤵️ (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ like that or repeat the behavior you know you hated when it happened to you. 3mo
megnews @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I agree but disagree with some of your comments above. Some people haven‘t come to the point where they hate the way they were treated because it may have been normal in their community. We often discuss the lack of mental health options and this is one part of the problem. The Fear and Feminism chapter kind of explains why I disagree with your statement. While I don‘t pretend to understand what it is to be a Black woman ⬇️ 3mo
megnews in America, as a woman married to a Black man-who went through what you describe above-I was always cognizant the stakes of the cops being called were so much higher for him. Black women are fighting on two fronts: for feminism and against racism and trying to protect their communities intact. It took me awhile to respond trying to get my thoughts together but I think this chapter did it for me. 3mo
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We think that poverty is a feminist issue for countries, and that we are in a place where bootstraps and grit can be enough to get anyone who wants it bad enough out of poverty. But the reality is that it takes a lot more than gumption.

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Discussion time #SheSaid

I‘ll admit, I was leery about reading two essay books back-to-back, but this one has such a different flow than the last, it wasn‘t a problem at all.

I really liked her no nonsense writing style, and the way she cut right to the point and seemed to easily explain how some things are feminist issues, that I‘ve often struggled to concisely articulate.

What were your thoughts on these first few essays?

Megabooks I agree that they have a flow, much more so than other essay collections. The topic of Solidarity is much talked about now (I‘ll tag a whole book about it.), but it was more novel on my first read. I think hunger and food deserts are often though of as more of an economic problem than a feminist one, but she makes an excellent argument as to why it should be though of in both spheres. (edited) 3mo
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megnews I agree there‘s a rift in the feminist movement between whites and woc. I think an example is going on right now with the Women‘s March. The vast majority of women I‘ve seen are white. Having worked in “the hood” for 2 decades, I have thought of hunger as a poverty issue and not a women‘s issue. It is taking my brain some time to wrap around thinking of it differently. (edited) 3mo
Karisa Both are essayists and the theme of feminism needing to be more inclusive is central to both. I love how Mikki Kendall also is ready to speak truth to power. Is it a fair inference that true feminism has much in common with socialism? We need to support tangible ways that help the daily lives of all women (food/education security; fairness in pay; controlling gun violence in all neighborhoods; etc). Kendall never actually says the word though. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa I thought about the recent news coverages about Gabby Patito, not only how so much coverage was given to a missing white woman, and so many WOC go missing and it‘s just sort of ignored. Also the fact that the police responded to a911 call about him hitting her, but decided she was the aggressor and trouble despite the fact that she had bruises and he did not. I also thought about the fight for the new “soft” infrastructure bill, all of which ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ are non-traditional infrastructure issues, but are all things we‘ve seen (especially through a pandemic) we need to keep the country moving…and how many of them usually fall into unpaid women‘s work (and often underpaid WOC work, like service jobs). I recently saw a program about why the pandemic hit WOC so hard, because they are often the food preparers, care givers, service transportation providers, but often in jobs with little health ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ care or social safety net, but yet absolutely essential workers…that get paid less and also had to do those essential jobs, and were more exposed to CoVID. (edited) 3mo
tenar What an incredible book pairing! The introduction felt like a direct passing of the torch from Audre Lorde to our author. She shared her experience again: your silence will not protect you. It‘s very powerful hearing it echo on this way.

It‘s really interesting y‘all talked about the flow, as I had a harder time this week! The gun violence essay in particular was not constructed in a way that was easy for me to understand. I felt like…
tenar …it jumped around to different ideas and then ended before I felt like I had learned enough. I would have liked to know more about what kind of legislation she supports, especially since she had used, maybe owned guns.

@Karisa I think that‘s an inference that makes a lot of sense given what she‘s said so far. Lorde, again, was a socialist, too. I think social justice in general has a lot in common with socialism, but maybe that‘s a hot take. 😌
MallenNC I am listening to the audiobook of this one but I also have the ebook to go back and mark some passages. I think the main thing that she is saying is that feminist issues have to be seen as broader than “leaning in” at work and reproductive rights. I think as @megabooks said that idea was perhaps more novel when this book came out, but it is still true that women‘s rights are seen in a narrow lane. 3mo
MallenNC This was one of the quotes I saved: “you can‘t “lean in” when you can‘t earn a legal living wage and you still need to feed yourself and those who depend on you.” 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @MallenNC Yes… every time she uses “lean in” I feel like it‘s a bit if a response to Sheryl Sandberg‘s book by the same name. And I have to admit, even I (a poorer handicapped white lady) never read Sandberg‘s book, because though it was acclaimed I immediately thought it did not apply to me…her life had a lot of privilege that I just didn‘t feel was relatable to my life and I never felt the urge to read it, I can‘t image what it felt like to WOC 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ but I remember when “lean in” was the catch word, the “it” term. 3mo
MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Oh it‘s absolutely a direct response to Sheryl Sandberg. I‘ve never read it either but it was hard to avoid it in the media when the book came out. It‘s easy to lean in when you have privilege. 3mo
megnews @Riveted_Reader_Melissa totally agree about the difference in coverage for missing white women and missing woc. One good result of the pandemic is it forced the increase in pay for a lot of jobs that people living in poverty may hold (again, if they have childcare, transportation, etc). 3mo
megnews @tenar I struggled with the writing too. I haven‘t quite put my finger on why. Maybe I‘ll feel better about it after I get a little further in. 3mo
megnews @MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa definitely a response to Lean In. I believe I recall Mrs Obama throwing some shade to the lean in concept at one point. I think on Oprah. I haven‘t read the book either but I have worked hard in my workplace leadership role to help other women speak up and to make a point of hiring and promoting POC, particularly women. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa Did the example of gun violence effecting women as bystanders grab everyone‘s attention, she mentioned being shot in your own bed…and I immediately thought of Breanna Tyler, shot in her own home in her own bed by police with a no knock warrant ….I actually had to look and see if the book was written/published after that, but nope published before…just shows how ubiquitous those incidents really are…sadly. 3mo
Megabooks @megnews @MallenNC @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I never felt Lean In applied to me even when I had a corporate job, much less now that I‘m living on disability. I think more white women are becoming aware that the world is broader, but unfortunately not enough. Plus there are the controversies of white women taking credit for Black/WoC‘s work. A recent example I read about was the Instagram account “SoYouWantToTalkAbout” that a lot of people thought ⬇️ (edited) 3mo
Megabooks ⬆️ was controlled by Ijeoma Oluo because of her book title, but it was actually a white woman who spilled the white tears when she was confronted about it by Oluo. The SoYouWant… account still has more followers than Oluo herself. (edited) 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I never related to “lean in” either and I‘m a cisgender, straight, middle-class, non-disabled white woman. I never read Sandberg‘s book because I felt it applied only to a small portion of women, and I wasn‘t one of them. I always considered poverty and hunger to be feminist issues and it disturbs me that they aren‘t seen this way. (edited) 3mo
KathyWheeler I especially related to the essay about hunger where she talks about the need to stop shaming people for needing help. I still remember, more than 40 years later, the deep shame I felt when I had to apply for food stamps for my mother, only to be denied because I lived with her, and I made too much money. She lived on disability, and I made $2000 a year as a grad student assistant. It was humiliating. There‘s no need for that shaming. 3mo
MallenNC @Megabooks I heard about “So You Want to Talk About” when the controversy happened. I hadn‘t ever seen it before then. That person had a lot of nerve! 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @KathyWheeler I‘ve been there and it is utterly ridiculous….the standards they have, the hoops you gave to jump through, and then even if you qualify for food stamps or disability the amount is so small. And the stuff covered not enough to support anyone (I was glad she at least mentioned it in that essay…food stamps doesn‘t cover laundry detergent, dish detergent, diapers or tampons or pads or any “over the counter” supplies like cough drops, ⤵️ 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ cold medicine, Advil, you‘re on your own there. And even if, as I found out, you are on Disability with Medicare, you can still be below the poverty level enough to qualify for food stamps and all of those essentials and over the counter stuff isn‘t covered by anyone. Not cough medicine or iron supplements for someone anemic, once it is over the counter it‘s usually not covered by insurance, and if it isn‘t human food it isn‘t covered by SNAP 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️ I was also glad she mentioned the elderly and disabled specifically in that essay….people who can‘t just “work” more, ask for a raise, get a better job (or any of the other cop outs you hear when discussing poverty or food stamps). (edited) 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I was glad she mentioned that too. My mother had bone cancer and had to have her leg amputated. When she first talked to the food stamp people, they wanted her to come down to their offices! They finally agreed that I could come in her place. The whole experience was unnecessarily cruel, and this was before they put all the restrictions they have now. What my mom got from disability wasn‘t enough to live on. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @KathyWheeler To me, the idea of a social safety net is that it catches you in a time of need….if the catch is so flimsy that you need to apply for 3 other kinds of aid, and still can‘t afford the basics…it‘s not providing a really good “net” at all because there are way too many holes to fall through. I often think that if the rich had to go “in person” and go over all their intimate financial details to qualify for each tax break, maybe they ⤵️ (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa ↪️Wouldn‘t get as many. Both are basically forms of social welfare, but one is coated in difficulty of access and shame and the other flows to you automatically in the tax code and means “you are just a great businessmen”. (edited) 3mo
KathyWheeler @Riveted_Reader_Melissa yes. There‘s no point of a safety net if it lets you fall. I love that idea about the rich. I‘ve often thought senators and representatives should lose all access to their money and living spaces and be forced to live on welfare for several months before they‘re allowed to make policies about anything like welfare and healthcare and minimum wage. 3mo
Tera66 @Riveted_Reader_Melissa Sorry I'm late to the party. I would still like to join in and will be caught up by the 10th! 3mo
ravenlee Sorry I‘m late - my internet was out yesterday! I‘m finding this book really good, clearly written and relatable. As everyone else said, the way she so clearly explains why issues like hunger are feminist issues, why “solidarity” isn‘t the togetherness we might think, it all really works. I especially appreciate the idea of Kendall receiving the torch from Lorde; it‘s fascinating to read them in order. 3mo
ravenlee I may be in the minority here, but I found the gun essay really compelling, in large part because I share Kendall‘s background as a military-trained gun handler. I agree with her stance that those weapons do not belong on the streets, and I support much stricter gun laws - but I‘m a gun owner myself. That‘s an unusual perspective these days. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee I think we need more people, especially gun owners, to speak up about it. I know there are many who own guns and are at least supportive of better and more complete background checks, and until they speak out more I don‘t think much will change. I think we are starting to see cracks in the NRA monolithic opinion though, people breaking from the no restrictions at all. 3mo
sabyym Hey, I‘m just here to say that I won‘t be joining the next few book club reads including this one cuz the lack of free time has caused me to prioritize few other books I really need to read next. So yes if I don‘t participate that‘s the reason. I‘ll come back to discussion when I finally catch up :) (edited) 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @sabyym I completely understand, I backed out of a few other reading groups myself lately. With Litsy, it‘s very easy to get into too much, and get overextended. If and when you want to come back, feel free. Do you want me to take you off the tag list for now so it isn‘t flashing up and annoying you? 3mo
sabyym @Riveted_Reader_Melissa yes that‘s very sweet of you. Thank you! Will be back soon! 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @sabyym No problem, just let me know when you want re-added. 3mo
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The next schedule for #SheSaid please feel free to join us if you are interested! Just let me know in the comments if you‘d like added or removed from tagging.

Megabooks I‘ll definitely be joining you! 4mo
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Riveted_Reader_Melissa I think I remembered everyone who asked to be added for this month‘s read, if I forgot you…please forgive me and just remind me here (again) to add you to the list. 4mo
staci.reads I read this one about a year and a half ago, but keep me tagged please. I may do some skimming and hop back in for discussions. 4mo
megnews Can‘t wait! 4mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @staci.reads No problem, please feel free! 4mo
ravenlee I got it from the library this week and can‘t wait to dive in! 4mo
kspenmoll Like to join in but I am behind schedule. 3mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @kspenmoll Feel free to join in and catch up when you get a chance. I read this week‘s section just last night and this morning, it was a quick read. 3mo
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Hey #SheSaid Hood Feminism is on sale in the US on Kindle today, you might want to check in other markets too, sometimes they line up.

This our book coming up in October!

megnews My daughter lent me her physical copy or I‘d definitely get this. 5mo
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Kdgordon88 Thank you! 😊 5mo
CoffeeK8 Thanks! I‘m super excited for this book! 5mo
MallenNC Thanks! 5mo
KathyWheeler Thanks! 5mo
Karisa Nice! Thanks for spotting that! 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Karisa That‘s the one nice thing about picking the books way in advance, sometimes we get lucky with sales. 5mo
Tera66 Thanks for posting this! I picked it up!😊 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Tera66 you are very welcome! We‘re reading it as a group read in October if you are interested in joining us. 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee Not sure if you were interested in any of our other upcoming group reads, but this one happens to be on sale if you are interested. 5mo
Tera66 @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I'll keep it in mind, I would love that! 5mo
ravenlee Thank you - I‘ve been looking through the upcoming reads and this is one I can get from my library. One of slightly less than half, unfortunately. Still, better than I expected for where I live! 5mo
Singout Yay, I‘ve got this one too! 5mo
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @ravenlee my local library is tiny too, but they are usually able to track down some through interlibrary loans from other little libraries in the area. But yes, a few I‘ve just outright bought…so I keep my eyes on the sales. 5mo
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Excited for all three of these titles which are currently on my September BookSpin list 😊

@Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks @OriginalCyn620

OriginalCyn620 Very nice! 👌🏻 1y
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