The Pleasures of the Damned

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

bailed

#AntiBookHaul
I paused reading in May 2018 after getting to some "problematic" poems (I posted about that at the time if you scroll a bit down the book profile, and @vivastory gave me some useful insights). I put it back on the shelf to see if I needed a bit of distance to return to it, but, no: clocking it today gave me a negative reaction, so I'm #deshelving.

Bookwomble Poems justifying domestic abuse and fantasising (at least hopefully only fantasising) about rape aren't my cup of tea. There are poems about other things, some of them very good, but I couldn't get past the "ick" ones. 1d

Suet624 I remember being repulsed when I first read any of his work back in the 80‘s. Seemed like a lot of men I knew at the time liked what he had to say, which was very disheartening. 1d

dabbe #hailthebail! 🙌🏻 #betterbooksahead 1d

See All 6 Comments

Bookwomble @dabbe This was a seven-year slow bail 😄 24h

Bookwomble @Suet624 It is disheartening, indeed 🫤 24h

Graywacke I read a collection of his. It‘s all attitude and cigarettes. I don‘t remember abuse, but he clearly was undoing something. My issue was it got to feel repetitive. 15h

26 likes6 comments

jveezer

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

You‘ve been warned. 📖🤓❤️

5 likes

Bookwomble

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

I started reading this book earlier in the year, giving Bukowski his right to be himself and of his time and place, being able to appreciate his viewpoint without having to embrace it. Then I got to these lines in the poem "somebody" on which he describes raping a women he's just met in order to "be somebody" again. ????

Bookwomble The next poem, "the colored birds" concludes that the only "proper man" in the neighbourhood is the one who violently assaults his wife each night. Is there any reason I should keep reading? 7y

vivastory No. These aren't persona poems, like Ai's or Robert Browning's. He seems to be endorsing these things. 7y

Bookwomble The idea of using personas to explore issues was partly how I took the earlier poems in the book, also giving him the right to hold views different to my own and for me to gain insight from that. It's another thing for him to use his own name in a poem about rape. Whilst again it may be an insight into how the world of an abuser is constructed, it makes me feel very different about the man identifying with that. It does taint the work for me... 7y

See All 15 Comments

Bookwomble ... but I wondered whether there was something of misapprehended about what he's saying. 7y

Bookwomble Tag! 😁 👉🏼 @vivastory 7y

vivastory Bukowski is really problematic in that the legend is often mistaken for the real person, but he perpetrated the myth. It's even more problematic when a poet uses I or their name in a poem. All writing is performance & involves personas, to a certain degree; but when they write of reprehensible things without writing from a clear persona, or of moral condemnation, it seems to carry a certain amount of endorsement. Moral poetry is often bad poetry👇 7y

vivastory Which I think is why the use of a persona has been so effective to write of certain topics & explore the mindset behind it without endorsing it. Things become muddled when this distancing element is missing. 7y

Bookwomble In the poem, the woman asks "are you Charles Bukowski", he says he is and that he wants to "fuck you", she laughs thinking he's joking, he rapes her and says at the end, "I was Charles Somebody", meaning that the act of rape had made him A somebody. If this didn't happen in his real life (I hope not), it may be an honest look at ugly feelings he has, of how rape is about power and masculine identity, and the poem a catharsis... 7y

vivastory Poetry as exorcism? There's certainly a case for that, Sexton & Plath were certainly using it as such, albeit at a higher imaginative pitch (at least imho). One thing that has always bugged me about bukowski is his glib dismissal of 95% of other authors as trash. 7y

Bookwomble @vivastory [Keep forgetting tags! See above☝?] ... but then the very next poem says beating your wife makes you "a man", and the context of that poem, also, has nothing to make you think Bukowski is being ironic. I don't need a neon sign saying "I'm really condemning this, not endorsing it", but in the repeated absence of evidence to the contrary, I've formed the view he thinks rape and abuse is ok. I'm not sure I Vann compartmentalise that. 7y

vivastory Life is too short for mediocre, problematic poetry. I agree, poetry that overtly preaches is typically bad poetry, but more often than not it feels like he is dog whistling. 7y

Bookwomble @vivastory It's a shame, as I actually do like a lot of his poems, I'm just not sure I can past this and read the rest. Also, there's the annoyance and regret of having spent £16.99 of my Christmas book tokens on the Damned thing! 🤨😉 7y

vivastory That is annoying! Raymond Carver wrote a hilarious parody of Bukowski that's worth checking out. 7y

GingerAntics Wow, I will not be reading this poet then. That‘s just disturbing. 4y

Bookwomble @GingerAntics Yes, it is disturbing. I've still got the book on my shelf, but haven't been back to it again. Re-reading @vivastory 's insightful comments reinforces my disinclination to do so. 4y

12 likes15 comments

jveezer

Pleasures of the Damned: Poems, 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

Checking out some of CB‘s poetry as the sun sinks into Catalina Island and the Pacific.

lalatiburona 🤔🤔🤔 7y

Leftcoastzen Perfect! 7y

Faibka Beautiful sunset! 7y

3 likes3 comments

PagesOfKate

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

Happy Valentines Day! Wishing everyone a super loved-up day 💞💞
After 11 years together the #hearts still in it. However, we've taken to choosing gifts for each other that are... somewhat less romantic in nature!
#Riotgrams

Jas16 I love that mug! 8y

jpmcwisemorgan Oh I need that mug! 8y

Tamra Funny! 8y

See All 7 Comments

readordierachel Ha! Both of those are great. 8y

LeahBergen 😂😂 8y

Craftylikefox The card and mug are so great!!! 😂 8y

AmyG Great mug. 7y

81 likes1 stack add7 comments

Taylor

Pleasures of the Damned: Poems, 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

pick

Soulful, reckless, and provocative. The work stands...indifferent to the reader.

5 likes1 stack add

Taylor

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

you know, you were right, Robert Baun, when you once told me, "Bukowski, about half of what you say is bullshit."
✔️

4 likes

Taylor

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

The horses were more real than my father
more real than God
and they could have stepped on my
feet but they didn't
they could have done all kinds of horrors
but they didn't.

I was almost 5
but I have not forgotten yet;
o my god they were strong and good
those red tongues slobbering
out of their souls.

7 likes

Taylor

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

in the most decent sometimes sun
there is the softsmoke feeling from urns
and the canned sound of old battleplanes
and if you go inside and run your finger
along the window ledge you'll find
dirt, maybe even earth.

5 likes

Taylor

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

I know it's not cool to like Bukowski but I've never read him before, started this today, and I'm finding it wonderful.

Simona I like his works and I enjoy in them. So what? I'm not cool? It does not bother me ... 8y

Taylor @Simona I didn't mean to imply anyone is uncool. I'm just saying I see Bukowski get a lot of flack in general. 8y

Simona That's true ... and I'm fine with uncool 😉 8y

7 likes3 comments

dixi_e

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

March 13: Van Gogh - Let's debate. #Litsy365

One thing I miss more than anything about leaving behind my past life is my book club and the amazing people in it. Few people in my life now want to read and discuss. ☹️

SharonGoforth

6 likes

dixi_e

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

March 9: woman on the street - I feel like that last line is one of power. #Litsy365

SharonGoforth

5 likes

dixi_e

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

March 4: the beautiful lady - I have no idea about the intent of this poem but it's rhythm drew me and kept me going. #LitsyPoetry365

SharonGoforth

9 likes

utterKATEness

Pleasures of the Damned: Poems, 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

No better way to spend a chilly day in the Philly suburbs than with a book of #poetry and a reading buddy. #dogsoflitsy

11 likes

winemom

The Pleasures of the Damned: Selected Poems 1951-1993 | Charles Bukowski

Hate won because of apathy.
Hate won because of pride.
Hate won because of ignorance.
Hate won because of laziness.
Hate won because people let it.
#hatewon #presidentialelection

18 likes