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Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

QUESTION 5
@BarbaraBB @catebutler @merelybookish @sprainedbrain @batsy @Leftcoastzen @emilyhaldi @mklong @vivastory @Liz_M @arubabookwoman @LeahBergen @daena @quietjenn @KVanRead @youneverarrived @GatheringBooks @readordierachel @saresmoore @sarahbarnes @sisilia @Reviewsbylola @Suet624 @Tanisha_A @Theaelizabet

vivastory Yes, I do. I think I also benefited from reading the preface which I found interesting. The fact that the Caves contained some of the world's oldest writings is significant & I can see why Inoue would feel the need to insert this historical episode at the end. It also shows the exploitation that occurred when ethnography ethics were shady 3y

Liz_M I agree with @vivastory. The epilogue added a welcome layer of complexity, a purpose to the specific selection of episodes of Hsing-te's life that are depicted. 3y

Billypar @vivastory Yeah, the exploitation stories were interesting. I was wondering whether he was including that detail just because it's interesting and it happened versus because it fits into the themes behind what makes the scrolls so important and how significant it is that they're being removed at the hands of Western culture. 3y

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Billypar @vivastory @Liz_M I was reading that there is a big international effort to digitize many of the scrolls and publish them online to increase their access. You have to wonder what the people who buried them would have felt about their being taken away for this purpose. There's a wider audience for the content, but is that consistent or inconsistent with their desires for preserving them? 3y

vivastory @Billypar I have the sense that it was for purposes of veracity rather than a larger point. Although, one of the interesting themes in the book is the forming of nations & the shifting of power. You could easily make the argument that the epilogue was commentary on this 3y

merelybookish I didn't read it. 🙈 Although I will say the burying of the scroll was probably my favorite part of the book. 3y

merelybookish *scrolls. Actually it was kind of mind boggling to imagine how many there were! 3y

GatheringBooks Honestly, my eyes glazed at this point. Couldn‘t care less anymore as all the characters were repugnant to me. But I still read it, while not caring to understand what it meant/signified. I am sure it is important to the author. Or to history. Or to civilization in general - but not to me. Found the storytelling painstakingly tedious with a notable air of quiet male-focused self-importance. Women are but props to elevate male ego and “heroism.” 3y

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Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

QUESTION 4
@BarbaraBB @catebutler @merelybookish @sprainedbrain @batsy @Leftcoastzen @emilyhaldi @mklong @vivastory @Liz_M @arubabookwoman @LeahBergen @daena @quietjenn @KVanRead @youneverarrived @GatheringBooks @readordierachel @saresmoore @sarahbarnes @sisilia @Reviewsbylola @Suet624 @Tanisha_A @Theaelizabet

saresmoore This is such a good question! The detached tone felt necessary to depict the reality of women in this time: property, objects, the spoils of war. It seemed to me that the main characters were struggling with a sort of suppressed compassion in order to survive, just as Inoue had to zoom way out to tell this story as one of destiny and humanity in conversation with history, rather than straight up horror. 3y

Liz_M Woah, this is an excellent question and I hadn't thought at all about the role (or lack thereof) of women in the story. I don't have an answer.... 3y

Billypar @saresmoore Yeah, the scene with the Hsia Hsia woman is pretty jarring at the beginning, and I wondered if Tsing-he felt a gut-punch at a human level, even if society thought it was no big deal. And he rationalized his interest as just having to do with the fact of the language existing, so maybe that's him suppressing his compassion as you pointed out is almost a necessity to survive. 3y

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vivastory @saresmoore I agree with your point about his tone of suppressed compassion. It was fascinating how Inoue managed that perspective. 3y

vivastory @Billypar I was really caught off guard by that scene. I wasn't sure where the narrative was going. 3y

saresmoore @Billypar @vivastory Yes! That scene made me nervous, but it really did set the tone for the narrative. Not because of the brutality in and of itself, but because of the conflict & tension between this intellectualism/higher calling and the pervasive survival mindset. It is the same reason we were affronted by Kuang, but also able to see his logic and shrewdness. 3y

emilyhaldi It seems that in a time of constant battle and impending war, the suppression of compassion would be required for survival. Yet Hsing-te showed compassion with both women he encountered.. we see a different side of him. 3y

emilyhaldi Ultimately he doesn't fight for the Uighur girl like he says he will, but continues to let fate determine how they meet again. I found it funny that his sense of urgency to return to her “faded” and only returned when he had other forces driving him. Yet she continued to be such an integral part of the story after her death. The women seem to take on more of a mythical or allegorical significance? 3y

Billypar @emilyhaldi Yeah I definitely agree. Maybe it's a similar story with Wang-li. We don't see him together with the princess, but I could definitely see his romantic notions stemming more from the idea he 'must have his vengeance' rather than his missing the princess for who she was as a person. 3y

emilyhaldi Agreed @Billypar their attachments to the girl weren‘t necessarily about her but what she represented to them 3y

merelybookish Yeah, this book would not pass the Bechdahl test! 😉 The two women did not seem like people, but sort of madonna/whore figures who as @emilyhaldi said are important for what they represented. Also did he rape the princess or did I misread that? I think it's Alice Munro who says she can never care about a story without a woman in it. And I think I'm the same and that might also be my struggle with this book. 3y

Billypar @merelybookish Yeah, he raped her, and then apologizes for acting 'beastly'. It's a strange scene because right afterwards she says she believes him to be the incarnation of her fiance. I'm not sure what Inoue was up to here: maybe her failure to reject him and come up with the fiancé idea is another survival tactic to help her cope? I agree it would have strengthened the novel to expand her role, and see more female characters overall. 3y

batsy Yeah, the women in this seem to exist as symbols & property. But the first scene with the Hsia Hsia woman was unlike anything I've read. I felt the awful horror of her situation, but Inoue managed to imbue her with a sense of autonomy as seen through Hsing-te's eyes. That was quite a scene. The rape scene also had that complexity for how quickly he regretted what he did, & it made me wonder if her reaction was more of a coping mechanism. 3y

Billypar @batsy Yeah, that early scene was so surreal. The autonomy she displayed was interesting - she even says "we will not sell all" as if she's allied with the seller. Maybe it's an indication that most buyers would keep her as a slave and she would choose death over that, just as the princess does later. 3y

GatheringBooks @merelybookish exactly how i felt! Everything you said here! All my responses to Q1-3 point to my dislike of the entire novel for this very reason. This is all male/masculine gaze - reading the entire story was distasteful for me thruout. I think this was compounded by my reading only exclusively women authors in 2019 that I found reading this novel to be the exact reason why I should read more female authors. 3y

Billypar @GatheringBooks On the one hand, I thought Inoue was conscious of needing to dramatize how terrible things were for women in this society, while at the same time not being gratuitous about what we see. But yeah, I think you're right, there is still a male gaze issue, not just the characters. Why not expand the roles of the two women? What about encounters with women from the villages? It would have been interesting to glimpse their lives 👇 3y

Billypar @GatheringBooks To some extent, it wasn't a character- driven novel, so I think I could still enjoy the writing and being in the world as an observer. But without more occasions to see how different women live in this society, it's an incomplete world, and it limited the novel's potential. 3y

GatheringBooks @Billypar you are def right about it not being a character driven novel at all, it isn‘t plot-driven either. As per the observation of another member in another thread, it is unlike anything, really. Normally that would work for me -but this one felt ultimately dismissive of women (largely swept aside or perceived as accessories to men) and too convinced of its own self-importance in the “larger scheme” of things. Very grandiose.But hollow for me. 3y

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Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

QUESTION 3
@BarbaraBB @catebutler @merelybookish @sprainedbrain @batsy @Leftcoastzen @emilyhaldi @mklong @vivastory @Liz_M @arubabookwoman @LeahBergen @daena @quietjenn @KVanRead @youneverarrived @GatheringBooks @readordierachel @saresmoore @sarahbarnes @sisilia @Reviewsbylola @Suet624 @Tanisha_A @Theaelizabet

vivastory It did work for me. Although as @batsy pointed out it does drag a bit during certain battle scenes. I'm not really sure how others are thinking of this? A novel? A novella? I thought it was perfectly formed for the story being told. 3y

saresmoore I thought the pacing was excellent. I skimmed over the names I was butchering in my mental pronunciation, especially during those tedious war maneuvers, but there were so many profound moments. Reading this was like an archaeological dig of historical fiction, chipping away at the context to reveal enduring truths and revelation. 3y

Billypar I thought the pacing worked for the most part. I did think that the narrative could have slowed down for more smaller moments of significance like when Tsing-he discovers the Uighur princess. Nothing else seemed as intense for me as those scenes, battles included. But that's a quibble and not a knock against the overall pacing. 3y

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Liz_M I can't remember the specifics of what I found dissatisfying. Perhaps it was a little too compact, glossed over too much time and made illogical leaps in order to pare the story down to the bare essentials. 3y

vivastory @Liz_M I agree that there were a few illogical leaps. I wasn't at all surprised when I read the preface to discover that several of his books have been adapted into movies. It felt cinematic in a very unique way at times while reading it, including the time gaps. 3y

Leftcoastzen I found the pace okay. I found myself thinking how life was so hard , few leaders and many people ground up in the territorial skirmishes.Soldiers as soldiers their life is the fight , how people were forced to grab what they could carry and flee. 3y

merelybookish I don't know. Like others, I really clung to the small human moments of connection and then glazed over during other parts. I don't know if pacing is my issue with this book or just how outside I felt from it all. Considering how many years are covered in the novel, it is a slim volume. It's like the anti- War and Peace. 3y

Billypar @merelybookish It's interesting to think about what parts would be expanded on if it were a longer novel. Hsing-te might have had a clandestine relationship with the princess, we could have seen him studying the Hsia Hsia language more and absorbing their culture, and maybe even let him have some more time studying the sutras before they had to evacuate. It could have worked, but Inoue would have to make sure it didn't drag. 3y

batsy Great point @vivastory it did feel cinematic, with time jumps. Although my attention did wander during the "tedious war maneuvers" as @saresmoore puts it ?, in general the pace/structure felt constructed to be both a macro and micro view of the passage of time. The specific details brought vividly to life because obviously things matter to people when they're living life. But it also pulls back to ask just how significant is human existence. 3y

saresmoore @batsy That‘s a great point. I think Inoue also makes use of the macro/micro lens in his treatment of women. When Hsing-te rapes the princess, he is laser-focused, but Inoue mercifully zooms out very quickly, somehow treating the atrocity of it with both gravity and grace. Later, when she jumps to her death, she is a literal dot in Hsing-te‘s view. It is only in his memory that she takes on more specific characteristics. 3y

saresmoore It‘s really a unique writing approach. I‘ve never read anything quite like it. @vivastory @merelybookish 3y

GatheringBooks I admire all of you for appreciating the complexities/subtleties of this novel - all of which are lost on me, as I simply found it a chore to read. Did not like all the characters, found it too male-centric, too macho, and limited in its scope/vision while attempting to be all grand/historic all the while ignoring/silencing women‘s voices that are taken as a matter of course. Rated this 1 out of 5, so I appreciate seeing things here I have missed. 3y

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Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

QUESTION 2 @BarbaraBB @catebutler @merelybookish @sprainedbrain @batsy @Leftcoastzen @emilyhaldi @mklong @vivastory @Liz_M @arubabookwoman @LeahBergen @daena @quietjenn @kvanread @youneverarrived @GatheringBooks @readordierachel @saresmoore @sarahbarnes @sisilia @Reviewsbylola @Suet624 @Tanisha_A @Theaelizabet

Billypar (Fyi- I am awful at mass tagging, so apologies for this - trying to get everyone's through at least once!) 3y

vivastory I honestly wasn't sure what to make of this. On the one hand I read it as Hsing-te's emotional attachment & on the other hand it read as a battle between Hsing-te's principals & Kuang's materialism. 3y

saresmoore I felt personally affronted and possessive when Kuang discovered the necklace. 😆 I think Hsing-te was always searching for something to “cling” to and at that moment, the necklace represented his idealized version of chastity and honor—something worth dying for. I found it all to be very Buddhist. 3y

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Billypar @vivastory Yeah, in some ways this links to question #1 - if Kuang takes it, there's a better chance of it being preserved for future generations (even if Kuang just wants it because he's greedy!). But it's personally meaningful to Hsing-te, and that shouldn't be dismissed as sentimental. Maybe we wind up siding with Kuang's view too often because it does seem more logical of a stance. 3y

Billypar @saresmoore Totally agree: with all the destruction he was witnessing, the meaning of the necklace did seem to take on an outsized role for Hsing-Te. 3y

Liz_M On a more basic level, Hsing-te kept the necklace because he didn't trust Kuang. Hsing-te trusted in Kuang's profit motivation and took advantage of it in order to secure the scrolls, but there were hints that there was something else in play, Kuang also seemed to have a personal attachment to the necklace and therefore couldn't be trusted with it. 3y

vivastory @Liz_M Agreed, there did seem to be a personal attachment for Kuang to the necklace 3y

Billypar @Liz_M That's very true - he was acting very suspicious, almost Gollum-esque! 😅 3y

vivastory @Billypar Ha! Perfect! 😂 3y

emilyhaldi Considering the lack of attachment to any place or material belonging for Hsing-Te, I would agree that the necklace must have represented something much bigger for him. He tended to float through life, letting fate determine his direction.. yet he promised the girl he would return for her in a year and then completely disregarded that promise. I think he struggled with some regret in his lack of action and was almost trying to make up for.... 3y

emilyhaldi ... that betrayal in some way, by not allowing the necklace to be stolen for material purposes? 3y

Billypar Good point @emilyhaldi - I can see how it would feel like he was breaking his promise all over again. 3y

vivastory @emilyhaldi That's a great point. Would def be a driving motivation. 3y

Leftcoastzen I agree with @emilyhaldi he felt he failed her , he was sentimentally attached also , didn‘t trust Kuang wanted some leverage with him & see if Kuang was attached for another reason besides greed. 3y

merelybookish I wondered for a while if K would turn out to be the prince who hadn't returned from battle for the princess who she assumed had died. It was the only way I could make sense of his intense desire for the necklace. But instead it was pure covetousness! I felt there was a power struggle between these men and necklace became the focal point. 3y

Billypar @merelybookish That would have been interesting! I got the sense that he considered himself such an expert that he couldn't stand the fact that the necklace was in the hands of someone who didn't know its value. 3y

batsy @Billypar I love the characterisation of Kuang being Gollum-esque! 😂 I agree with @saresmoore I think it represented certain ideals for him and it was symbolic of his devotion to the girl, in the manner in which he assumed she was devoted to him. I like @emilyhaldi's point & maybe that was what Inoue was depicting: the eternal contradiction between ideals of non-attachment and human desire (we will never not fixate on things, places, people). 3y

GatheringBooks Love reading all these deep thoughts here, esp @batsy and @Billypar. For me, though, I felt that it was this male ownership/possession/territoriality that frankly put me off the entire novel. I found it too oozing with testosterone and the privileged sense of ownership - be it material things or the women whom they perceive as conquests - women whom they assume to kill themselves over a question of “honor/chastity/loyalty.” Umm.. really? 3y

Billypar @GatheringBooks I did wonder a lot about those classic dilemmas of historical fiction while I was reading this. How much racism or sexism should be shown? Does the author need to signal their perspective in opposition, or is that just what comes out of good writing naturally? And even if it's 'accurate', it doesn't make it something I want to pick up if there's not a larger purpose. I'll put more thoughts of where I landed with this one in #4.. 3y

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Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

QUESTION 1
@BarbaraBB @catebutler @merelybookish @sprainedbrain @batsy @Leftcoastze @emilyhaldi @mklong @vivastory @Liz_M @arubabookwoman @LeahBergeb @daena @quietjenn @KVanRead @youneverarrived @gatheringbooks @readordierachel @saresmoore @sarahbarnes @sisilia @reviewsbylola @suet624 @Tanisha_A @Theaelizabet

Billypar Correction: @LeahBergen 3y

Liz_M It depends on the framework. In the grand sweep of history, most lives can seem insignificant. However, to me, my life is the only reality, of course. (edited) 3y

vivastory I agree with @liz_m I'm also aware that this perspective varies from culture to culture & am aware of both the benefit & the harm of this viewpoint. But ultimately as an individual in modern Western society this is how I feel. I will say that the pandemic has increased & sharpened my sense of both my insignificance & a greater sense of community. Both which I feel I had a fairly decent grasp of beforehand. 3y

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Billypar @Liz_M @vivastory Good thoughts: works like this always remind me of how much personal histories are less valued relative to a discovery like the scrolls. Yet when we're reading a version like this of what might have happened, so many intriguing questions come to mind that in a weird way, speculation about possibilities seems more significant in some respects than what scientific methods will uncover. 3y

saresmoore I agree that it‘s Inoue‘s overarching theme, for sure. I underlined several passages that speak directly to this idea and wrote “fate” or “destiny” in the margins more than once. I didn‘t get to reading the preface yet, but I felt like the whole point of Inoue‘s reimagining was to put history into a human context. 3y

Liz_M @saresmoore “...put history in human context“ - oh! well said. 3y

vivastory @saresmoore “history into a human context“ I like that & I think it's very apt 3y

emilyhaldi I love that too! @saresmoore I suppose we naturally think of our individual experience as more “real” than the larger events surrounding us. But of course our personal experiences are ultimately shaped by historical & cultural contexts. @vivastory it‘s interesting to consider how this has become more clear as we live through a global pandemic and are so shaped by the events around us. 3y

vivastory @emilyhaldi The same historical uncertainty is on display, albeit different era & different circumstances, in this book. Makes me wonder how much it would change their perspective, 3y

Leftcoastzen I always think we have a bit of It‘s a wonderful life in all of us , that we are a huge influence in a few lives close to us.Some people end up being incredibly significant . I think the main character was open to doing what was right & maybe the right person, right time?He had his heart set on the test that he missed yet didn‘t despair, did he have a hunch he was destined for greater things?How many unsung heroes have saved elements of culture? 3y

Billypar @Leftcoastzen It did seem like he had that conviction early on. And then he lost it for awhile, like he was almost blunted by the battles. But then it came back in when the scroll issue surfaced. In some ways the scrolls, as significant as historical objects as they are, are almost like that film term, 'Macguffin'. Everyone is concerned about them, but it's Hsing-te's actions and motivations that are most meaningful. 3y

merelybookish This is an interesting thing to consider since the novel operates on the individual level. Maybe that's why I felt so detached from the main character because ultimately it isn't his story that matters most but the larger forces at work. 3y

saresmoore @Billypar I love this idea of the scrolls as the Macguffin. And what do they represent? Transcendence & meaning that will live on after the characters‘ looming deaths, I think. (So much ever-present death!) But it really is what everyone is after, whether they realize it or not. Ooh, lots to think about with that Macguffin idea! 3y

Billypar @saresmoore I think this quote sums up these questions well: "Material goods, life, and political power belonged to those who possessed them, but the sutras were different. They belonged to no one. It was enough that they should not disappear in flames -- that they should just continue to exist. The mere fact that they survived was of value in itself." (161) 3y

saresmoore In the words of Charlie from A Charlie Brown Christmas, “That‘s it!” 3y

Billypar @saresmoore 🎹🎶😅 3y

batsy That's a great quote about the scrolls vs material possessions. I think Inoue was exploring this theme about purposeful existence vs destiny. Hsing-te found himself having his most profound experience as a result of having slept away his one chance at a career. He made a choice to do what he did every step of the way after that, but is it ever really a choice or does one simply respond once external forces have pushed us in a certain direction? 3y

Billypar @batsy I like that idea about purposeful existence vs destiny being explored. Unlike tragedies where characters are punished in trying to avoid their destiny, Tsing-te needs to struggle and use all his cunning to fulfill it. It is tough to identify where free will begins, but I think there's a stark contrast between the fog-like state of following orders in a deadly war with the moments where he feels a spark to follow his passion for language. 3y

emilyhaldi @Billypar @saresmoore Your insight regarding the scrolls as a Macguffin have me thinking again back to the necklace... how does it differ from the scrolls as a material possession vs macguffin?? 🧐 3y

Billypar @emilyhaldi I think it makes sense to compare the two, especially since Kuang believes he is transporting treasures like the necklace to the caves and would be furious if the knew the truth. I guess the difference is that the items like the necklace can be owned by individuals. They have both a material value and a personal value to the owner. But the wisdom in the scrolls can't be owned by anyone. 3y

Billypar @emilyhaldi Though, as we know from the epilogue, the irony is that dollar values were placed on the scrolls, and so there is less of a distinction between them in the modern context when considered with other items found in the caves. 3y

saresmoore @emilyhaldi That‘s a really good question. And @Billypar those are equally good insights! In which case, the necklace is almost a red herring? Too far? 😆 3y

emilyhaldi @Billypar Very good point about the scrolls having a dollar value in modern day.... 🤨🤨🤨 what to make of it! @saresmoore never too far!! Thank goodness for this group... so much insightful analysis that I would never reach on my own! 3y

Billypar @saresmoore I agree with @emilyhaldi - not too far because most stories have all these characters pursuing the same Macguffin. Even though this wasn't Hsing-te's intention, you have to wonder whether Kuang wouldn't have asked more questions about the cargo being transported if he wasn't so consumed with the necklace. 3y

Billypar Also agree @emilyhaldi that I never seem to spend enough time reflecting on/ analyzing books after I read them, so I'm loving the dialogue these group discussions allow for! 3y

saresmoore Yes, @emilyhaldi! We're only as smart as our book club friends, right? 🤓 3y

GatheringBooks Sorry for being late to the #NYRBBookClub party - what a profound 1st Q you got going on here. The academic/researcher in me sees the macro perspective, whereby the personal is naturally embedded into the political/sociohistorical. In this book, though, I found the historical parts unbelievably boring that I lost all interest in the personal. Was not invested thruout the narrative that straddled both that I lost sight of what is impt in the story. 3y

Billypar @GatheringBooks Even though I liked it, I definitely know the reaction you're describing well. There's some kind of critical reading engagement threshold where once you fall below it, no intellectual appreciation of themes will win you over. 3y

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Billypar @BarbaraBB @catebutler @merelybookish @sprainedbrain @batsy @Leftcoastzen @emilyhaldi @mklong @vivastory @Liz_M @arubabookwoman @LeahBergen @daena @quietjenn @kvanread @youneverarrived @gatheringbooks @readordierachel @saresmoore @sarahbarnes @sisilia @reviewsbylola @suet624 @Tanisha_A @Theaelizabet 3y

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

#nyrbbookclub
Hope you can join @vivastory and I for the discussion of the November pick Tun-huang: it starts in about one hour at 2 pm EST.
I also wanted to give a warm welcome to all new members to the bookclub: I'm very excited to share a year of great books and discussions with you all!

vivastory Looking forward to the discussion 👏📚🤘 3y

LeahBergen I didn‘t get my act together and order the book in time for this round but I‘ll be following the discussion with interest! 3y

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BarbaraBB Like @LeahBergen I didn‘t manage to read the book in time. I am sorry 😞 3y

Suet624 I‘m sorry. I‘m another one who hasn‘t read the book yet. But it‘s on the top of the stack after I finish my library reads. 3y

Billypar No worries @LeahBergen @BarbaraBB @Suet624 Hope you enjoy it if/when you pick it up! 3y

Liz_M Thank you @Billypar and @vivastory for another fun discussion! I am sorry I wasn't really present today -- I spent the past two days baking several hundred cookies and could only pop by in-between taking batches out of the oven. 3y

vivastory @Liz_M No worries! Thanks for chiming in. You're annual holiday cookies always make me crave them 😂 3y

vivastory @Suet624 Looking forward to your thoughts 👍 3y

vivastory @BarbaraBB I look forward to your thoughts on it! 3y

vivastory @LeahBergen I think you'd dig it. If you get around to it I can't wait to see what you think 📚 3y

Billypar @Liz_M Thanks for joining in during what sounds like a marathon cookie baking session! 3y

quietjenn Thanks for welcoming us new kids! The discussion seemed interesting, so will have to keep an eye out for this one. 3y

Billypar @quietjenn Yeah, I really liked it: I think it's worth picking up. Looking forward to discovering some good nyrb picks in 2021! 3y

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batsy

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

pick

I love that this book starts out with a dream sequence, because being in 11th century China is akin to being in a dreamscape. Imagining the fascinating secret history of how a trove of Buddhist documents came to be sequestered in the Thousand Buddha Caves, Inoue has written historical fiction that's dense & concise, & quite different from the Anglo-American variety. There is a sense of mystery about the vast enigma of human existence at its core.

batsy I feel like Inoue embodied the Buddhist principle of non-attachment in the way he portrayed the characters & how social arrangements worked at a time of ever-present war & uncertainty. What does it mean to live, to love, & to have a sense of purpose when you might not know if you live to see the next day? And yet, human effort thrives & lives on for centuries in the art & religious writings concealed in caves. I found it poignant & profound. 3y

batsy The only reason I gave this 3 stars instead of 4 is probably because I did drift off a bit in the middle sections during some of the war scenes, but this tends to be a recurring pattern with me & my reading of war literature 😬 #nyrbbookclub @vivastory @Billypar 3y

Suet624 Unfortunately, this book remains at the top of my TBR. Other things happened this month. Your review makes me very excited to read it. 3y

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youneverarrived Oh wow, excellent review! 🙌 you‘ve made me really want to read this now. 3y

erzascarletbookgasm Sounds very interesting 👍 3y

Billypar Great review! So true about the shift in priorities caused by living as a warrior - the number of lives that the Hsia Hsia army loses with each campaign was huge. It makes sense that you would embrace a lifestyle of non-attachment and wanting to preserve both tangible items and cultural ideas for posterity. 3y

vivastory You really nailed it with this review, Suba! I agree with you about the dream aspect & esp how it relates to the Buddhist elements. I'm with you on battle scenes. My eyes usually glaze over once the maps come out, but what Inoue described here was so strange, with the soldiers being tied in their saddles, that it kept my interest. Call me morbid. 😂 Def the least interesting part of the book. 3y

batsy @Suet624 @youneverarrived I hope you find it rewarding when you get to it! 😊 3y

batsy @erzascarletbookgasm A very unique book and one you might like! 3y

batsy @Billypar Thank you! And yes, that non-attachment element felt like it was conveyed through the voice and style, which was a fascinating aspect of the structure. 3y

batsy @vivastory Thank you! That detail about the soldiers in their saddles will stick with me. It made me really 😯 3y

saresmoore Such a thoughtful and insightful review, Suba! (I feel spoiled getting to read books with you because you‘re basically an expert at it. 🙌) I, too, tend to drift away reading war content. Also sport of any kind. 😆😴🤺 I‘m selfishly ready for some dark academia in the NYRB... 3y

batsy @saresmoore You're much too kind, Sara. Coming from a generous and clever reader like yourself 😍❤️ Ha, I definitely don't think I could manage sport content 😂 Dark academia would be perfect... *looks demandingly at NYRB catalogue* 3y

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saresmoore

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

“During the third battle, Hsing-te was wounded and regained consciousness only as the wounds were being dressed by a comrade. He had no recollection of being struck. Probably it had happened after he had fainted. From these experiences, he came to the conclusion that going to battle was not so hard after all. After shooting his stones, he was free to faint or do anything else, leaving the rest to fate.”

vivastory, Billypar

saresmoore I can‘t imagine this approach to life, let alone war (!!), but it says a lot about our main character. 3y

vivastory Agreed. The way he described the soldiers being tied down to their horses & occasionally horses would return with dead soldiers in the saddle. So grim, but he relayed it in a detached fatalistic tone 3y

saresmoore @vivastory The Hunting Gun reflects that total unsentimentality, too. I don‘t know what it is about his writing style, but it really works for me. 3y

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saresmoore Whoops, forgot to tag #NYRBBookClub 3y

vivastory Same here. I just added Hunting Gun to my TBR. This one is one of my faves that our group has read. 3y

saresmoore @vivastory Not to enable your book buying, but there is a lovely little Pushkin Press edition of The Hunting Gun. 😁 3y

batsy Yes! I was really struck by this passage and sentiment, too. 3y

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vivastory

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

pick

I appreciate historical fiction in theory, but too often I find it weighted down by excessive world building. Thankfully, this is not the case in Inoue's wonderful historical novel. Using a real incident, the discovery in the early 20th century of a trove of Buddhist writing in the titular city. Yasushi Inoue's book is a lively reimagining of the circumstances that led to these documents being stored away for over a century. Chao Hsing-te falls👇

vivastory asleep as he awaits to take his final civil service exam. He then wanders into the marketplace & a strange encounter sets off a chain of events. As the story is set in the 11th century one might expect to feel removed from the narrative, but as Damion Searls writes in the preface, “Inoue has a wonderful eye for the historical detail as striking image.“ Often these images serve as a reminder of larger historical & cultural forces at play, 3y

vivastory determining the lives of the individuals. The reader is provided with enough detail to immediately fall into the story. Hsing-te, soldier, lexicographer, failed government official, military advisor, Buddhist etc makes for an interesting figure to follow for 200 pages. Looking forward to the discussion this weekend with my co-host @billypar #NYRBBookClub 3y

LeahBergen Great review! And now I regret not getting to this one in time for our discussion!! 😩😩 3y

See All 15 Comments

vivastory @LeahBergen Don't know if this would be any help but it's a quick read. 3y

vivastory @LeahBergen Def. tag me with your thoughts when you do. I'd be curious to see what readers who do read more historical fiction make of this. 3y

Billypar It's not an easy novel to describe but you captured it really nicely! That distinction between using historical detail for how the scene is set rather than excessive background information is an important one. 3y

vivastory @Billypar I've always preferred books where we are immersed in the narrative & then familiarize ourselves with it as it goes along rather than slowly building it up detail by detail. I think Inoue convincingly portrayed a historical era & yet it felt very immediate too (edited) 3y

Billypar Yeah, that approach is my preference too. The novel I'm reading now also does a really good job of that. It takes place in Granada in 1499- I'm really enjoying it so far.

Granada: A Novel

vivastory @Billypar This sounds really intriguing. Many years ago I read quite a bit Spanish lit, mostly poetry, & I remember finding the history to be fascinating. Will definitely be keeping an eye out for your thoughts! 3y

batsy Nice review! I like your point about the excessive worldbuilding that can be off putting in historical fiction. That's been on my mind. This reminds me of another NYRB novel, Zama. The prose style of both books is completely different, but there's a similar essence in the intensely-detailed yet concise structure. I like that it keeps the historical period in question knowable, but also keeps us at a distance as it should (if that makes sense?) 3y

saresmoore Great review! And that makes sense to me, @batsy . I‘m enjoying the book and look forward to the discussion! 3y

merelybookish So great to get your thoughts Scott. I definitely struggle with historical fiction. I hate the world building you mention. But I'm not sure I liked this style either (although it was much easier to read and didn't feel so weighted down by "history"). But I still felt detached. 3y

vivastory @batsy Zama has been on my TBR. After your comments I think I might have to move it up. And yes, I definitely know what you mean. I appreciated how he handled the historical period. It feels engaging & real. 3y

vivastory @saresmoore I'm looking forward to what the rest of the group thinks! Should be a good discussion! 3y

vivastory @merelybookish I can definitely understand what you mean. Sometimes a detached tone can drive me crazy, but I found it effective in this story 3y

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vivastory @BarbaraBB @emilyhaldi @sprainedbrain @mklong @youneverarrived @LeahBergen @Leftcoastzen @Liz_M @merelybookish @MicheleinPhilly @GatheringBooks @saresmoore @sisilia @Reviewsbylola @batsy @Suet624 @Theaelizabet @Tanisha_A @catebutler 3y

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

pick

#nyrbbookclub
Equal parts military adventure and philosophical journey, this novel had me completely immersed in the landscapes of 11th century China. Through the scholar-turned-warrior main character, we observe contrasting views about what makes a society great: is it its cultural and linguistic achievements, military prowess, religious teachings, lauded family dynasties, riches, or something else? 👇

Billypar Our hero faces these questions as a warring society threatens to snuff out all traces of its Chinese neighbors. I was interested in what motivated the characters - fear of death on the battlefield was all-but non-existent, yet ideals like love and preserving treasures for posterity drive much of the action. There's a grim feeling of inevitable destruction throughout that provides a window into how much of a society is ultimately lost to history. 3y

BarbaraBB Fab review. I couldn‘t follow along, so many names and history. I couldn‘t keep focused but will try again soon 3y

Billypar @BarbaraBB Yeah, the beginning definitely tosses out a bunch of city, region, and country names, along with complex ethnic and political divisions. Luckily most of the novel isn't like this: it's easier to follow once the main narrative gets underway. 3y

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BarbaraBB I may have put it aside too soon, he has just arrived in that region the book is about of which I have forgotten the name... 🤦🏻‍♀️ 3y

merelybookish Great review! I don't know what to think of this one. I stayed engaged but also detached throughout. I felt the distance in space and time. 3y

merelybookish Also, very cool pic! 🙂 3y

merelybookish As always, look forward to the discussion to see what other people made of it. And that is my final post, I promise! 😁 3y

Tanisha_A Wow! Fabulous review! 3y

batsy Great review and photo. I'm close to halfway through and really liking it. It's weird to say this and I don't know how to explain it, but I'm drawn to how certain books create that "grim feeling"... like with this one, there's something mysterious and unknowable about it. 3y

Billypar @merelybookish Thanks! Yeah, it's not a novel where you feel very close to the main character. I think partly because he tends to not have great insight into why he acts the way he does. And as you mentioned, the unfamiliar time and setting also keep you at an arm's length from the story, though I did really feel like I was there watching the events. Looking forward to discussing further next weekend! 3y

Billypar @Tanisha_A Thanks! 🙂 3y

Billypar @batsy I know what you mean - I have a real 'how did they do that?' reaction after certain books that cultivate that feeling. And since I'm not a writer, I guess it's a question I'm happy to leave unanswered so it's not spoiled for me 😁 3y

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BarbaraBB

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

#WeeklyForecast 47/20

I am reading and enjoying Sea Wife at the moment. Next will be the tagged one for the #NYRBBookClub. I also hope to get to The Door which I have been wanting to read for so long.

Cinfhen

JennyM Looks like you‘ll have a good reading week, Barbara 😘 3y

cathysaid The Door was my pick for one of the #lmpbc rounds. I really enjoyed it. Kind of dark, kind of witty, and just so interesting. 3y

arubabookwoman I just finished Iza‘s Ballad, my 2nd Szabo, and loved it. Need to read The Door next. 3y

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sarahbarnes The tagged book sounds really intriguing! I read The Door about this time last year and I really liked it. 3y

sisilia I loved The Door. I read True Deceiver by Tove Jansson after I read The Door, and was surprised by the similar tone. I gave both 5⭐️ - highly recommended 🌻 3y

Cinfhen You‘re just a non-stop reading machine 🙌🏻😘 (edited) 3y

BarbaraBB @cathysaid @sarahbarnes I am now even more looking forward to it. I read the tagged one and loved it too @arubabookwoman ! Ever since I‘ve wanted to read The Door. I‘ll also stack True Deceiver @sisilia 😘

Iza's Ballad

(edited) 3y

BarbaraBB @sisilia Well, I‘ve got my chance to read it in January for the #NYRBbookclub 😃 (edited) 3y

sisilia Yes 🤗 3y

69 likes9 comments

vivastory

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

The reviews for Inque's novel have been positive so far. Join my co-host @Billypar & I 12/6 @ 2 EST as we discuss! For those who celebrate the upcoming Holidays I hope you have a safe & pleasant celebration filled with good company, delicious food, fine wine & top shelf literature! And for those who don't celebrate, these are enjoyable things that don't require a holiday & I wish you health & happiness! Cheers, #NYRBBookClub friends! 📚🍷🍾📚

emilyhaldi I wasn't sure about this one at first but it reads surprisingly easily and I'm enjoying the story 🤓 3y

vivastory @emilyhaldi I'm really looking forward to diving in! 3y

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Tanisha_A Hii! Thanks for tagging me, Scott! 🤗 But i won't be able to participate this time, other books going on. Will definitely look out for reviews of you all! 😊 3y

vivastory @Tanisha_A No worries! I don't know if you saw the other post I tagged you in yesterday. I'm opening the group to new members, so if you want to join the new group just leave a comment on that post ☺️ 3y

Tanisha_A @vivastory Done, done! 🙂 3y

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merelybookish

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

Bath, bed, book. Another exciting Friday night!
Starting #nyrbbookclub pick!
@vivastory @Billypar

JennyM Sound perfect 👌 Enjoy 😊 3y

sarahbarnes Yes!! I had the same Friday night! 😃 3y

53 likes2 comments

Liz_M

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

pick

Yasushi Inoue, fascinated by a historical mystery of how tens of thousands of documents ended up hidden for centuries in the caves outside Tun-Huang, delved deeply into historical research to produce this novel as the solution. Beginning in 1026, this slim story of Hsing-te's life is briefly told, only detailing the historical context and depicting the necessary episodes and relationships that will culminate in the inevitable, fated resolution.

Liz_M 3.5⭐, #nyrbbookclub, #BookSpinBingo @TheAromaofBooks 3y

TheAromaofBooks Woohoo!! 3y

BarbaraBB I already found my answer! Great review. I‘ll start it soon! 3y

merelybookish Starting this now! 3y

Liz_M @BarbaraBB, @merelybookish I hope you both enjoy it! 3y

23 likes5 comments

Liz_M

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

Hey #nyrbbookclub peeps! Just finished the book by reading all the front matter last. The Preface had some general plot info (and tells you when to stop reading) and the Author's Preface is mostly harmless. However! The Introduction is all plot summary. You are forewarned.

Liz_M @vivastory 3y

LeahBergen Thanks for the ‘heads up‘! 3y

vivastory Thanks for the notice! 3y

batsy Thank you for the reminder to read this book 😂 3y

Liz_M @batsy I peeked at my ebook, saw it was 600+ pages and realized I needed to start reading immediately! But the ebook was counting screen flips, not pages so I finished in two days. 😜 3y

16 likes5 comments

vivastory

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

With only two more votes than Ocampo's Thus Were Their Faces, Inoue's Tun-Huang is the November #NYRBBookClub Selection. A reminder from the book universe that every vote matters. *Ahem* Join @Billypar & I next month as we read & discuss
@BarbaraBB @emilyhaldi @sprainedbrain @mklong @youneverarrived @LeahBergen @Leftcoastzen @Liz_M @merelybookish @MicheleinPhilly @GatheringBooks @saresmoore @sisilia @Reviewsbylola @batsy @Suet624 @Theaelizabet

vivastory #NYRBBookClub 4y

LeahBergen A close race, indeed. *ahem* 😉 4y

vivastory @LeahBergen On the one hand I want to get the election over with, on the other I am enjoying not knowing right now just in case it turns out poorly... 4y

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BarbaraBB Looking forward to it - again! 4y

batsy Nice! I'm happy this one won 😁 4y

saresmoore If only our options in other elections were this good. 🙃 4y

emilyhaldi 👏🏻👏🏻 4y

57 likes7 comments

Tun-huang | Yasushi Inoue

#nyrbbookclub @vivastory
I'm excited to co-facilitate the November NYRB selection! The choices are:
1. Tun-huang by Yasushi Inoue
2. That Awful Mess on the Via Merulana by Carlo Emilio Gadda
3. Thus Were Their Faces by Silvina Ocampo
@Barbara @batsy @emilyhaldi @GatheringBooks @LeahBergen @Leftcoastzen @Liz_M @merelybookish @MicheleinPhilly @mklong @Reviewsbylola @saresmoore @sisilia @sprainedbrain @Suet624 @Theaelizabet @youneverarrived

Billypar @vivastory are new members voting starting this round? 4y

GatheringBooks Thank you putting this up early! Yayyyy! I vote for

vivastory @Billypar No, I need to open the group up and see who wants to join 4y

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vivastory Excellent choices 👍 I vote for

Leftcoastzen Wow, amazing selections!all look intriguing but I will pick

Leftcoastzen @vivastory just want to thank you again for keeping this wonderful book club together!Huzzah! 4y

youneverarrived These all sound so good! My choice is

Liz_M The tagged one is shorter, so I will vote for it. But I am equally interested in the Ocampo.

(edited) 4y

BarbaraBB Hi Vinny, great that you are co-hosting! My handle is @BarbaraBB (you tagged another Barbara 😃). It‘s a tough choice but I‘ll go with

merelybookish Hmmm. Hard choice but voting for

LeahBergen I‘m glad you are hosting us for this final month, @Billypar ! Great picks. My vote is for

mklong Ooh great picks! I‘ll go with one that has been patiently waiting in the TBR stack for ages

emilyhaldi Exciting that you will be our next host!! 👏🏻I love your diverse selection! My pick is

saresmoore Such great picks and so excited to have you host! I really loved the other Inoue I read, so my vote is for

Billypar Oops - sorry for the typo @BarbaraBB ! 4y

sisilia I am a fan of Inoue, so I vote for

batsy Yay! It's great to have you host our November read. These picks are all so interesting; my vote is for Tun-huang

vivastory @sprainedbrain @MicheleinPhilly @Theaelizabet @Suet624 Voting is still open 4y

MicheleinPhilly

Suet624 Thanks for the nudge, Scott. Still swamped over here! I‘ll go with Thus were their faces. And yay to Vinny cohosting!! 4y

sprainedbrain Oh sorry!

Reviewsbylola Tough choice but I think I‘ll vote for

Theaelizabet @vivastory Sorry to be late. We had a surprise visit from our daughter this weekend. I vote for