So Burgundy comes back to fight for France and Talbot insults Joan (not the smartest move ever). Thoughts? Concerns for Talbot‘s health? Anyone else enjoying having Joan around again? I‘m beginning to wonder when the English get rid of her.
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batsy I was glad to see Joan again. Some of the lines directed at her are fun, aren't they. "Foul fiend of France, and hag of all despite"—would like that on a t-shirt. I'm finding Talbot's reputation to be a bit eye-rolly at this point. And it was interesting that young King Henry seems to have more sense than the adults. 3y
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Cuilin I feel bad for the people of Rouen. They must have an identity crisis. They don‘t know if their French or English from one minute to the next. Henry VI comes across as gentle and not very war like. I get the feeling we‘ll like him but his gentleness may not be what they need to keep France. 3y
Riveted_Reader_Melissa @batsy I was thinking, Joan can‘t win...if she succeeds she‘s a miracle prophetess (praise goes to god), if she losses a liar (even if it‘s during the night when she‘s asleep and the guards fail), and if she conquers you a witch, foul fiend, and hag. Women, of course blamed for everything and even in success, she‘s either a witch or a hand from above....seems not to have changed much. 😂 3y
mollyrotondo @Riveted_Reader_Melissa correct! She just simply cannot be a good warrior. Even the praise and devotion from the French is so disturbing to read in this play because we know the French turn on her. So awful. And a great way Shakespeare shows the drastic turn from praise to scorn. 3y
mollyrotondo I love how Shakespeare shows us all the infighting going on in Henry‘s court. All the false agreements or the quarrels between two Englishmen after everyone has left all buddy buddy. He dramatizes the weaknesses in the English court. 3y
Lcsmcat @Cuilin I feel for the citizens too. What‘s in it for them? 3y
TheBookHippie @Riveted_Reader_Melissa I so agree Joan was doomed no matter what. The labels allllll STILL accurate today. STILL. Women with any perceived power are feared by most men to this day ...as we see played out all over the world. 3y
TheBookHippie @batsy one hag T-shirt for me please. I too am loving all of it. 3y
TheBookHippie @mollyrotondo infighting seems to be the downfall of most countries I like how it is written here. 3y
Cuilin @batsy @GingerAntics There‘s no path to success for Joan and women in general. The age old story of women can only be virginal = good, whores= bad or witches = also bad. If women pick good they may not step out of line ever or they‘ll fall into one of the other categories. I think Joan falls into all of these depending on who is judging her. Doomed to failure 😞 3y
TheBookHippie @Cuilin I‘m thinking the same he may be too weak. Anytime France has a weaker leader it seems to not go well 😬 3y
TheBookHippie @Cuilin Agree about women... 3y
TheBookHippie I‘m liking Joan and the story I‘ve not read a ton of history of this time and am looking up so much. Interesting to see Shakespeare‘s take and then wonder what he is saying. 3y
batsy @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @Cuilin Yes, absolutely. She can't do anything right & even when she's being praised, she's sexualised. I do kind of love that her retorts to the men are steady, like she can't be bothered with the petty stuff, and only has one job to do (which I guess is how she sees her role). 3y
batsy @TheBookHippie 😆🙌🏽 #TeamHag 3y
GingerAntics @batsy I‘ve noticed that, too. With age comes wisdom does not seem to apply to this play. 3y
GingerAntics @Riveted_Reader_Melissa @batsy sadly, it doesn‘t seem much has changed in the 400 some odd years since this was written. 3y
GingerAntics @mollyrotondo the French court doesn‘t look much better, honestly. 3y
GingerAntics @Cuilin especially when you consider she was given virginity tests which were even weirder than most people imagine. 3y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie remember, this is basically Elizabethan propaganda. He‘s attempting to show how wonderful and brilliant the English are, but right now it seems like the only one falling into that category right now is HVI. 3y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics Ha! You‘re right. 3y
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I think because we all know the real story, Joan of Arc comes off that way as well, but Shakespeare certainly wouldn‘t be telling that story to Elizabeth I. 3y
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics ah NO. Nope. It is fascinating to me I think reading the histories make us see today in different light as well. Although the comedies and tragedies seem to as well. Such brilliance. 3y
Graywacke Joan - doomed every way. Does she realize? Poor hag of despite. 3y
Graywacke Spent time before reading this act trying to figure out who all these English players are, and it might have paid off. I was happy to catch how the bard quietly undermines H-vi‘s character. He has no idea of the sickness in the English nobility. He really thinks things are ok because he had two goofs shake hands. They‘re not event the true problem goofs... And he sets York up! Oh, what‘s coming... 3y
GingerAntics @Graywacke there does seem to be a bit of cluelessness on the thrown. Several generations later, the naivety of Richard II is still alive and well in this distant nephew Henry VI. 3y
Lcsmcat @batsy You make the t-shirt and I‘ll wear it. Right next to my “nevertheless she persisted” one. 😀 There does seem to be a bit too much behavior in this play mirrored in today‘s headlines. 3y
Graywacke @Lcsmcat i have that t-shirt ☺️ 3y
GingerAntics @Lcsmcat I want that t-shirt! 3y
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