Litsy

The Beekeeper's Apprentice: or, On the Segregation of the Queen | Laurie R. King

repost for @dabbe:

#TheLitsyIrregulars #TLI

Fabulous discussion today, Pastiched-Sherlockians! Next up: THE BEEKEEPER'S APPRENTICE by Laurie R. King. This is Book #1 in the Mary Russell series, which now taps out at 19 books! 🤩 A quick check-in will occur on 12/30 and then the discussion will be on 1/31! Happy detective reading! 🖤🕵️‍♂️💛

#BuddyRead

dabbe Thank you! 💙☃️🩵 1d

27 likes1 comment

dabbe

The Beekeeper's Apprentice: or, On the Segregation of the Queen | Laurie R. King

#TheLitsyIrregulars #TLI

Fabulous discussion today, Pastiched-Sherlockians! Next up: THE BEEKEEPER'S APPRENTICE by Laurie R. King. This is Book #1 in the Mary Russell series, which now taps out at 19 books! 🤩 A quick check-in will occur on 12/30 and then the discussion will be on 1/31! Happy detective reading! 🖤🕵️‍♂️💛

DrSabrinaMoldenReads, Cuilin, kspenmoll, CogsOfEncouragement, AnneCecilie, Librarybelle, mcipher, Read4life, CatLass007, Mollyanna, eeclayton, Bookwomble, dabbe, MaGoose, kelli7990, TheAromaofBooks, Sparklemn

Texreader Oooh tag me too! This has been on my tbr list and I just checked it out from the library 2d

kelli7990 I‘m looking forward to reading this. I found the audiobook on Spotify. 2d

DrSabrinaMoldenReads Got it!! 2d

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CogsOfEncouragement Looking forward to it! 2d

dabbe @Texreader You are on the list! 🖤🕵️‍♂️💛 2d

dabbe @kelli7990 YAY! 🖤🕵️‍♂️💛 2d

dabbe @DrSabrinaMoldenReads #woohoo! 🖤🕵️‍♂️💛 2d

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement Me, too! 🖤🕵️‍♂️💛 2d

Texreader @dabbe yay! Thanks! 2d

Librarybelle I‘ve read this twice. It‘s a good book! Looking forward to seeing what others think of it. 2d

Skygoddess1 Please add me to the tag, have had this on my TBR for way too long 1d

dabbe @Librarybelle #woohoo It must be good, then! 💙☃️🩵 1d

dabbe @Skygoddess1 You are on the list! 💙☃️🩵 1d

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dabbe

The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel | Anthony Horowitz

#thelitsyirregulars #tli @Cuilin

Thoughts, Pastiched-Sherlockians?

DrSabrinaMoldenReads, kspenmoll, CogsOfEncouragement, AnneCecilie, Librarybelle, mcipher, Read4life, CatLass007, Mollyanna, eeclayton, Bookwomble, dabbe, MaGoose, kelli7990, TheAromaofBooks, Sparklemn

Librarybelle Life isn‘t easy at the moment, and I did not get to read this but read it years ago for a mystery discussion group I led. I don‘t remember every detail about the book, but I did like it and felt that it paid good homage to Conan Doyle and Holmes (the group agreed too). It takes talent to bring a new story such as this close to an original. I adore Horowitz and his books, so of course I vote for reading Moriarty! 3d

kelli7990 I enjoyed this book. I would read more books by him. 3d

eeclayton I'm not sure I'd pick it up on my own, but if #TheLitsyIrregulars decide to read it together, then I'll certainly join in the fun! 3d

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kspenmoll I second @Librarybelle opinion. I love this author & will read anything he likes. I did find this book had a more chilling effect on me than Holmes stories penned by Watson. 2d

kspenmoll Thanks for hosting & coming up with questions that made me dig deep & THINK on a Sunday! 2d

DrSabrinaMoldenReads I am happy to have found this author. For literally years, I have been searching for a mystery author on the same level as I remember Agatha Christie to be. I was never able to figure out her mysteries but as an adult have been able to figure most mysteries out before finishing. That has taken away the fun. I can‘t wait to read Moriarty. I would love other author recommendations. 2d

CogsOfEncouragement I have read books with SH as a side character, as well as books with SH as a great great great uncle or something and I really enjoyed them.

If I had read House of Silk on my own, I would not have finished it and I wouldn't be interested to read book 2.

I do enjoy hearing what others think about books, even the ones that didn't appeal to me. Thank you for continuing to host these discussions. I think they are important. 2d

dabbe @kspenmoll YW! 🤩🤣😘 2d

dabbe @DrSabrinaMoldenReads Any of his books are excellent IMHO. They definitely keep you guessing! 🤩 2d

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement TY! 🤩 2d

DrSabrinaMoldenReads @dabbe Yay about his books! 2d

dabbe @DrSabrinaMoldenReads 🎯♥️🎯 2d

34 likes12 comments

dabbe

The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel | Anthony Horowitz

#thelitsyirregulars #tli @Cuilin

Thoughts, Pastiched-Sherlockians?

eeclayton The foreword really piqued my interest, I was eager to find out why this manuscript needed to be hidden for such a long time. Now that I've finished, I'm not sure if it's because of the scandal and well-known people's involvement in it, or because of the episode with Moriarty.
As for the latter, do we really believe that Watson never said a word about this to Holmes, not even after Moriarty's death? 🤔 3d

kspenmoll Maybe Watson needed time & reflection to get the story just right. It could have bern because he did not want to expose & publicize the depth of the corruption in government for fear that it would cause a crisis & instability. Other European countries were becoming nationalists at the time, & England was as well. Any spark might become what happened inevitably WWI. 2d

DrSabrinaMoldenReads Maybe there was some element of truth about the scandal 😳 From my work and the present stuff in the news, such groups actually exist. Even in small town communities. But I had no idea that‘s where it was going in the novel. (edited) 2d

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dabbe @eeclayton @kspenmoll @DrSabrinaMoldenRead Truly interesting points! To add my two cents re: the effect the later release had on us, the readers:
•First, it establishes that the story belongs to an earlier period and is being revisited with hindsight, which allows Watson to foreshadow certain developments or comment on the lasting significance of the case. ⬇️
2d

dabbe •it creates a sense of finality and distance: readers know that Holmes is no longer alive in the “present” of the framing narrative, which can add a reflective or elegiac tone.
•it positions the case as exceptional or sensitive compared to typical Holmes adventures, since Watson implies that it was withheld for specific reasons. ⬇️ 2d

dabbe This framing signals to the reader that the events of the story differ in seriousness or impact from the cases Watson published during Holmes‘s lifetime. 2d

29 likes6 comments

dabbe

The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel | Anthony Horowitz

#thelitsyirregulars #tli @Cuilin

Thoughts, Pastiched-Sherlockians?

kspenmoll Legal justice was explored through Holmes arrest, imprisonment, the corruption in the system. When all the people involved in the corruption were exposed, some served jail time. The “ minister” who thought he was untouchable was murdered if I remember correctly. So sometimes justice was served within the system, mos times outside its boundaries - morally justice was served that way. When Holmes “punished” & razed the building down, that seemed⬇️ 2d

kspenmoll Out of anger & anguish rather than mortality. 2d

eeclayton @kspenmoll That's a great point, Holmes's arrest and imprisonment illustrating how the system has broken down. 2d

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dabbe @kspenmoll @eeclayton 🎯🎯🎯!
I thought the novel explored the theme of justice by showing how legal justice and moral justice do not always align in Victorian society. The novel presents several situations in which official institutions—such as the police, courts, and charitable organizations—either fail to protect vulnerable individuals or are unable to confront powerful offenders (talking to you, Mycroft!). ⬇️ 2d

dabbe At the same time, the story shows characters pursuing a form of moral justice that extends beyond legal procedures. Holmes‘s investigation continues even when his actions bring him into conflict with the authorities or place him under suspicion. His pursuit is driven not by legal obligation but by a belief that certain wrongs must be uncovered regardless of institutional barriers. ⬇️ 2d

dabbe Watson‘s narration also reflects the distinction between what the law can accomplish and what individuals may feel ethically compelled to address. The conclusion of the novel further emphasizes this difference. Although some aspects of the conspiracy become known, the full legal consequences do not reach every participant because of the involvement of socially protected figures. ⬇️ 2d

dabbe Nevertheless, the exposure of the crimes and the protection of future victims represent a form of moral justice within the narrative. Overall the novel examines justice as a dual concept: the official, procedural kind handled by the state, and the broader ethical responsibility pursued by individuals when the legal system proves insufficient. 2d

24 likes7 comments

dabbe

The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel | Anthony Horowitz

#thelitsyirregulars #tli @Cuilin

Thoughts, Pastiched-Sherlockians?

eeclayton While I knew that the Flat Cap Gang storyline would have to have something to do with the House of Silk mystery, I honestly forgot about it for most of the book. It was much less intricate, and for me personally, the solution to it, when it came, had shock value but felt a little WTF. The HoS part, on the other hand, held my interest all the way through. 3d

kspenmoll I was mostly caught up in the House of Silk as more intricate & intriguing. It did not cross my mind that the author would connect the two. I was surprised that one of the twin leasers of the gang was female. Never crossed my mind- that was a clever way of connecting the storylines. (edited) 2d

DrSabrinaMoldenReads Where‘s the best place to start with Sherlock Holmes? I have not read his mysteries? What‘s next for us and when in this group? 2d

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CogsOfEncouragement I had the feeling of coincidence - which SH didn't believe in - that Carstairs was one so vile as well. 2d

dabbe @DrSabrinaMoldenReads If you search #noplacelikeholmes, you will see how our group read the entire canon. We read in exact chronological order by publication date. Here's a link to all of the stories in order and online: https://ignisart.com/camdenhouse/canon/index.html 2d

dabbe @eeclayton @kspenmoll @DrSabrinaMoldenReads @CogsOfEncouragment I, too, forgot about the Flat Cap Gang and was stunned by how he pulled it all together at the end. I read 60% of the book yesterday and couldn't put it down once the suspense really started rolling. I did feel I had to suspend my disbelief a bit, though, but I find I pretty much have to do that with a lot of mysteries. 2d

DrSabrinaMoldenReads @dabbe Whoa! Thanks for the link! Where has this been hiding all my life. 2d

dabbe @DrSabrinaMoldenReads That website will keep you busy for a while! 2d

20 likes8 comments

dabbe

The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel | Anthony Horowitz

#thelitsyirregulars #tli @Cuilin

Thoughts, Pastiched-Sherlockians?

kspenmoll I think he achieved a really good balance until his drive to punish those at the end- I did like the prison escape; just like what Houdini Holmes might do. 2d

eeclayton @kspenmoll I enjoyed the prison break too, the twist on the coffin idea was clever, although this was the one twist in the book that I was able to figure out much earlier than Watson 😁 2d

dabbe @kspenmoll @eeclayton On the side of remaining faithful to the canon, Horowitz preserves the familiar framework of a Sherlock Holmes case: Dr. Watson narrates in a Victorian style, Holmes follows recognizable deductive methods, and the story includes many canonical features such as Baker Street, The Irregulars, Scotland Yard, and Holmes‘s standard investigative techniques. ⬇️ 2d

dabbe Character dynamics also remain consistent, with Holmes as the central problem-solver and Watson as the recorder and interpreter of events. The novel also uses devices common in Doyle‘s stories, such as red herrings, nested clues, and the gradual revelation of hidden motives.

As an innovator, Horowitz expands the thematic scope beyond what Conan Doyle typically addressed. ⬇️ 2d

dabbe The plot involved a more elaborate criminal network, a wider social critique, and subject matter that was darker and more systemic than the individual or domestic crimes common in the original canon. The novel also increased the emotional and institutional stakes by depicting Holmes confronting entrenched corruption and facing personal jeopardy in ways that Doyle used less frequently. 2d

21 likes5 comments

dabbe

The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel | Anthony Horowitz

#thelitsyirregulars #tli @Cuilin

Thoughts, Pastiched-Sherlockians?

eeclayton He fails to see the link between the two storylines early on -- but let's be patient with him: he's never had to do this before 😁 3d

kspenmoll He fails to see the house for boys for what it truly is earlier on, despite noting many wheel tracks in front of the certain building. Or the Carstairs for the evil people they are. 2d

DrSabrinaMoldenReads I was thinking he did not reveal how much he knew. 2d

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DrSabrinaMoldenReads The prison escape was like what occurred in another famous novel which I loved. Don‘t want to do a spoiler. It was a French author. 2d

dabbe @eeclayton @kspenmoll @DrSabrinaMoldenReads Some failures of Holmes that I noticed:
1. His failure to understand what Ross was truly afraid of until it was too late. He totally went the wrong way on that one.
2. Holmes does not foresee the plot that results in his arrest. The antagonist‘s ability to manipulate evidence and exploit legal structures reveals a space where Holmes‘s deductive skills cannot protect him ... ⬇️ 2d

dabbe ... from coordinated efforts designed to undermine him.
3. Although still largely rational, Holmes becomes emotionally affected by Ross‘s death and by the nature of the crimes uncovered. The novel presents this emotional reaction not as a flaw in character but as a situation where personal investment temporarily disrupts the neutrality associated with his deductions. 2d

23 likes6 comments

dabbe

The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel | Anthony Horowitz

#thelitsyirregulars #tli @Cuilin

Thoughts, Pastiched-Sherlockians?

eeclayton My impression is that in the ACD originals, Holmes isn't as much interested in the moral layers of the crimes as the clues and the logic to the mysteries. Here, however, he very much acts to punish the culprits. The final bit about him setting fire to the school felt a bit over the top for me. 3d

kspenmoll I don‘t think of Holmes as his actions being dictated by emotions but just observation & logic. His investment in punishment of the perpetrators seems unlike him. 2d

CogsOfEncouragement I liked W's subtly in the canon. Readers had to pay attention to each sentence, especially in the short stories to realize that SH did care, and did take action after a case, etc. Those stories had to fit into a periodica after all.
This novel - to me - overly criticises SH and W rather than extending the canon in a way to make the reader forget it was written in 2011. 2d

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dabbe @eeclayton @kspenmoll @CogsOfEncourgement Agree with all you said! #mytwocents: THE HOUSE OF SILK expanded the moral and thematic stakes beyond those in many of Conan Doyle‘s original Holmes stories by introducing subject matter and institutional critiques that Doyle typically did not address directly. While the original canon often focused on individual crimes, personal vendettas, or puzzles rooted in deception, ... ⬇️ 2d

dabbe ... this novel incorporated themes involving systemic abuse, exploitation of vulnerable populations, and organized wrongdoing tied to respected social institutions. The “House of Silk“ crime was more sordid than anything I think Doyle did or could have done during that actual time period. The fact that these horrors involved innocent boys is what enabled me to believe Holmes of his fiery act at the end. 2d

Cuilin Having a hard time, articulating my thoughts, but I agree with what you said about ACD could not ever have written a story about a pedophile ring. There would‘ve been uproar. I appreciate that Horowitz wrote the story and tackled it the way he did. 1d

dabbe @Cuilin I thought it was a brave thing to do, and it brings light to something so horrific that still goes on today. 1d

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dabbe

The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel | Anthony Horowitz

#thelitsyirregulars #tli @Cuilin

Thoughts, Pastiched-Sherlockians?

eeclayton I think it's important because if the narrative voice feels off, the readers won't be able to immerse themselves in the story, because they won't believe it's Watson telling it.
I feel Horowitz did a good job. The only times when I was taken out of the story were when he tried to inject some modern day morality in Watson's descriptions, especially about the Baker Street Irregulars. 3d

eeclayton I also felt that the amount of easter eggs / fan service was a bit too much for my taste. They were fun to spot in the first few chapters, but later on I was more like “not again!“ 3d

kspenmoll @eeclayton Yes, Watson‘s modern day morality judgements re: the Baker Street irregulars were odd as I don‘t think of him as that judgmental esp in his role as a doctor. I liked the references to his wife & commitment to her. 2d

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CogsOfEncouragement I think there were a number of misses when trying to convince us W is talking to us once again. (The real problem is I adore W and I can‘t abide anyone trying to say a bad word of him. Yes, I have issues that I don‘t plan to work on.) The beginning of ch 12 was one example. In the canon I feel W is a genuinely good person. This confession of being otherwise put me off. To me, it seemed an unnecessary judgement on the canon rather than an ⬇ 2d

CogsOfEncouragement an extension of it. In ch 16 W tells us he didn't know much about Mrs H and he hadn't cared enough about her. I disagree, we know why she is so loyal to SH because W tells us. In ch 17 W explains Mary died because he was too busy with SH and didn‘t care for her well enough. That is an odd take on a beloved character. Gilbert Blythe took care of Anne and W would have most definitely taken care of Mary and I dare say SH would want/demand ⬇ 2d

CogsOfEncouragement ...the same. While reading the canon, I took W to tell us without telling us that M died in childbirth and he suffered a double loss. Something that sadly happened often at the time and could give the readers what they wanted - W once again living with SH with no obligations keeping him from helping on the cases. W‘s medical practice is also done away with to make this happen.
2d

dabbe @eeclayton He really wanted us to know he was well-versed in the canon, didn't he? 2d

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement Watson is beloved, isn't he? The way I got around these thoughts (which I agree with wholeheartedly) was to focus on the fact that Watson was writing this one as a huge flashback after all his dearly beloveds had passed on. Perhaps he was a bit morose and over-nostalgic in his thinking and beyond modest with himself. 2d

dabbe @eeclayton @kspenmoll @CogsOfEncouragement
I felt that Horowitz kept Watson‘s first-person narration grounded in Victorian diction, understated humor, and respectful admiration for Holmes. His phrasing and rhythm echoed the original stories—measured, observant, and tinged with nostalgia. Watson also remained perceptive but never omniscient; he frequently admitted when Holmes outpaced him--maybe even too much--like @CogsOfEncouragement said. ⬇️ 2d

dabbe I also felt Watson's emotional warmth and compassion, particularly for vulnerable characters like Ross, was more openly articulated than in some original stories but still consistent with his personality. Horowitz added a bit more emotional introspection without making Watson un-Victorian. To me, the book felt like a genuine, “lost” Sherlock Holmes adventure. Watson‘s voice is the key to this illusion. ⬇️ 2d

dabbe If the narration felt contemporary, cynical, or overly stylized, the spell would break, which seemed to happen for some of you, but not for me. 2d

CogsOfEncouragement @dabbe Good points, and I‘m glad this novel worked for you and you enjoyed it. 2d

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement And I hope you like our next one more. 2d

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