whotheheckiswilliammaxwell

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

#whotheheckiswilliammaxwell

@Lcsmcat - the NY Times heard us. From this morning‘s paper.

Lcsmcat I just increased my TBR by a whole stack of books! Other than the short stories we read, I‘d only read the letters between Maxwell & Welty and

So Long, See You Tomorrow

Graywacke @Lcsmcat 🙂 3y

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Lcsmcat

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

The Gardens of Mont-Saint-Michele: Like an earlier story, this one deals with Americans out of their element in France, and the attempt to match one experience to another. Melancholy in feeling; the bike accident premonition; the rude waiter; the disappearance of the gardens - there‘s a lot going on here. #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell @Graywacke

Graywacke Our harmless maniac. He sounds a lot like Ray Ormsby in The Pilgrimage - American acting clueless and frustrated the real world doesn‘t correspond to their fantasy world. Although... 4y

Graywacke ... one key difference is that John is building on memories - maybe not accurate ones, but he‘s right in that the world has changed and gotten more crowded and there are negative consequences. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat this one gets to me in a silly way. As a kid I found Le Mont-Saint-Michel and its daily island/not island-ness fascinating and have always wanted to go there. My grandmother had a painting up on her wall that one of her ten older brothers painted and I always loved it. So, to imagine it in 1948 was very romantic to me. And then to “see” it in 1966 was soul crushing. It will be worse today... (edited) 4y

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Graywacke @Lcsmcat but John was kind of extremely foolish in the way he thought about this change, in his insistence that change itself shouldn‘t have happened. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke How interesting that this place has meaning for you. I haven‘t been, but my sister was just talking yesterday about that being the only place she‘s been that actually has quicksand. 4y

Lcsmcat John was foolish, and I get the frustrations and the feeling of not quite being your competent self. And maybe in 1966 progress felt always negative. But that‘s a function of memory‘s imperfection too, isn‘t it. You remember the quiet of a non mechanized world, and forget how hard it was to haul water and prepare food, etc. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat or how desperate France was in 1948, all these service people eager to please because of this 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat an update on the island, just for fun. See the 3 minute video, when you have a chance. https://www.euronews.com/amp/2019/05/16/mont-saint-michel-reclaims-island-like-c... 4y

LeahBergen It is one of the most eerily beautiful places I‘ve ever been. I‘d return in a heartbeat. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat the quick sand always fascinated me. 🙂 @LeahBergen jealous 🙂 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke cool video! I‘d love to time-travel back to see it in earlier times. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I found an interesting article about Maxwell from 1995, if you‘re interested. https://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/22/books/a-modest-scrupulous-happy-man.html 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat thanks for this. Terrific article. Almost all new to me. 4y

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Lcsmcat

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

The Final Report: Once again Maxwell uses an outsider (sort of) to tell the story. Once I realized that the narrator was not the executor I was left wondering why he looked up the eponymous report. Was Aunt Cameron a horder? Or just someone who got too frail to take care of things? Why did she fight with Dr. Cameron? More questions than answers for me. #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell @Graywacke

Lcsmcat Two things that resonated with me. I had a playhouse made of piano boxes (although mine was not fancy enough to have a door and windows.) And, the misunderstanding of the picture of the man dreaming of horses. My grandparents had a print called After the Hunt or some such. It was fox hunters having a drink after, and there was a bench with a cloak draped across it in such a way that, as a child, I was convinced it was a girl, face down, weeping. 4y

Lcsmcat It was years before I figured that one out. 4y

Graywacke Love your picture. This was a puzzle for me. I mean I understand that on the surface it‘s about a life and all it‘s internal unknowns and vanities. And I understand it‘s more about the author‘s nostalgia than the this lonely woman. And I understand there a ritual to it - an elegy (“to all the lonely people “ - thanks Beatles). But I wasn‘t able to go anywhere else 4y

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Graywacke I think Aunt Cameron was a hoarder, driven by a reduced income life. And I don‘t know why this narrator looked her up. Nostalgia? And I‘m guessing she hated her husband because of some bitter personal failure - marriages... maybe what he presented to the world wore off in private...or was exposed in intimacy. And I love your story about the picture. Here she might have been stomped by her dreams. ?? 4y

Cathythoughts Great picture 4y

Lcsmcat @graywacke I had a hard time “going anywhere else” too. I agree that Dr C May have been different to Mrs C than to the world, but we didn‘t SEE that, or even really get told. I like your interpretation of the nightmare picture. Good symbolism-catching. 😀 I‘m afraid this was not my favorite of the collection. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Yes, good point. We didn‘t see any dark side of him, but I‘m not sure we saw any sign of what disappointed her either. I thought maybe he was getting at all the things we don‘t see - inside minds especially. I think we can extrapolate to in private. But either way, it‘s specifically what is not open for taking in and analyzing. Also I might have just missed something 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I would like to skip this week. I‘m traveling and my copy is fragile. Is that ok? 🙁 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Of course, safe travels! 4y

Graywacke Thanks! ☺️ 4y

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Lcsmcat

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

Young Francis Whitehead: Maxwell uses the device, technique, frame? (I can‘t decide) of the outsider observing family dynamics. Miss Avery, not Red. As with Arnold in The Patterns Of Love we know very little about her, but she is the first character we meet. Thoughts? #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell @Graywacke

Graywacke Hi. Lots. The set up of the scene, more countryside vs City, the judgment on the pains of the privileged, the selfishness breading selfishness, observed by a tailor who is also, actually, selfish - as she is concerned with getting out of there in a reasonable amount of time. He‘s playing a lot of games. 4y

Graywacke I really liked the paradise/underworld scene setup. They‘re guarded by a loving unwanted Irish Setter version of Cerberus - an adorable version 🙃 An then there is the inside of the house, lush with paradise comforts, and full of Easter anticipation, yet only unnutritious candy to eat. (It made me think of Persephone and the pomegranate seed - if Ms. Avery had accepted one candy - it‘s like a threat) ... 4y

Graywacke It‘s all paradise on the surface and hell just underneath. The Hotel California. 4y

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Graywacke Also, nice picture. Love Irish Setters, one of the most beautiful dogs in existence 4y

Lcsmcat I think Red was my favorite character- and I‘m a cat person. 😀 I like your Persephone reference. It really did seem as if Miss Avery could get stuck if she wasn‘t careful! I didn‘t see her as selfish so much as not interested in these particular people. She wanted to maintain the professional relationship (checking out her handiwork on his clothing when Francis came in) but not a social one. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Red was the most likable character 🙂 4y

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Lcsmcat

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

The French Scarecrow: The full poem the epigraph can be found here: https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/john-mouldy/
Gerald, Edmund, Dorothy, even Mrs. Ryan have deep underlying fears. Maxwell seems to be defining the characters almost by what their fear is. Thoughts? #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell @Graywacke

TheSpineView I liked this poem! It speaks of loneliness and to be forgotten after your usefulness is gone. A good analogy for old age. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Thanks for looking up and linking to this poem. I loved this story. It doesn‘t end, but travels on off the page into a wonderment of our minds. 4y

Graywacke It‘s interesting what we fear. I admit all their fears seemed quite rational and relatable to me. It does make breaking down per character a little more difficult. They could have an issue...or they could be my version of normal 🙂 4y

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Lcsmcat Oh I thought they were all versions of normal, even Gerald who presumably thought he wasn‘t or he wouldn‘t be paying for an analyst. But Edmund‘s were the hardest to suss out, so perhaps deeper? 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat it was interesting to me how the countryside development transition is a theme. We saw this two stories ago too - city-country contrast. The scarecrow is a ghost of the past and a maybe a dark prophet of the fear of change. He maybe holds a revenge element, or a hint of the land‘s animosity in him. (Goodness, where did this comment come from? I just meant to say something on Edmund...) I agree, Edmund as scarecrow begs some consideration. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Maxwell had a home in the “country” as well as a place in NYC, and given the post-war, cars-are-a-thing time frame, he probably did see a lot of change in that direction. Edmund‘s fears were, I thought, of loss. The land he lost, the first wife, the fear of losing the child. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat some sense of defeat, like the scarecrows head on its chest. Although... oddly not acknowledged by him. 4y

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Lcsmcat

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

What Every Boy Should Know: This story did not end up where I thought it would. How about you? With the first sentence, “Shortly before his twelfth birthday, Edward Gellert‘s eyes were opened and he knew that he was naked.” I was thinking in a totally different “boy grows up” direction. You? #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell @Graywacke

Graywacke Hi. I‘m find I‘m getting more detached from Maxwell, and becoming more critic. Uh oh. Anyway, this judgy moral of dank capitalism was hard on me. ... 4y

Graywacke But... I did like the opening. Had no idea where he was going with that, so I guess a morality tale with a bicycle is one option! 🙂 4y

Graywacke And he carries it through, that beginning theme. If you characterize this one as a story on masturbation and capitalism, it begins to sound a lot more entertaining... (edited) 4y

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Lcsmcat @Graywacke 😂 The opening had me thinking Edward was going to come out as gay, not realize the world was unfair and Daddy couldn‘t fix everything! 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Maxwell is certainly more concerned with character, and internal character at that, than he is with plot. I enter totally into the feelings of his characters even when I‘m left thinking “what was that about?” at the end. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat That‘s the point I would like to find, just hanging with the characters. Not there now, but I can be patient. This story has some lingering affect. I‘m walking my dog this morning thinking about the poor boy losing his bicycle. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat hopefully not going too far, but it occurred to me there is a parallel between his masturbation and his delivery boss‘s power trip when talking to him after the strike (paraphrasing: we were going to expand your route...oh, but don‘t worry about that now.) Might even be a central point in the story, could even be something he wrote after his own boss pissed him off. 🙂 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I don‘t think you‘re going to far, maybe not far enough. 😀 As I‘ve thought about it more, it seems to be about powerlessness. His against his father, boss, and biology; his mother‘s against her husband; even his father‘s against the bike-crusher. 4y

Graywacke Capitalism has a fundamental power element to it. It‘s essentially a loot and pillage economy, with some natural balances for economic sustenance (but also a minimalist approach to common necessity) What I‘m trying to say is I agree, this is about power play. And good observation on how it plays out with his parents and the impoverished neighbor (although... 4y

Graywacke ... we don‘t know what happened between his dad and the bike smasher. I suspect his dad realized they were poor and covered for them in his own imperfect way. The poverty gets only the merest implication, but i think that element was there.) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke You give the father more credit than I did! I assumed the man denied it was him and, with no proof, the father failed in his mission. He (the father) didn‘t give off strong compassion vibes. 😀 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat no! Agree, not compassionate. Although there is some level of humanity in him - it‘s a bit of a puzzle to place him, for me. I appreciated that. But I think you‘re closer in, with less wishful thinm. 4y

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Lcsmcat

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

The Patterns Of Love: Maxwell paints interesting characters, and does an excellent job of showing interconnectedness. Arnold puzzled me a little. What is his relationship to the family and why is he such a regular yet infrequent visitor? #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell @Graywacke

Graywacke Rain check. I‘ll read this tomorrow. Promise. 😁 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And I was fretting about posting late. 😀 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I procrastinated and now have July 4 plans. (Safe ones, i hope!) Oops 4y

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Lcsmcat @Graywacke Enjoy then, and I hope they are indeed safe. 4y

Graywacke I read this morning. (Took me all of 15 minutes. ☺️😕... ) Still processing 4y

Graywacke On interconnectedness and the patterns of love and all those animals and maybe our covid world - it all leaves me thinking of a soup of exchanged germs. 🙂 Just tells you I‘m a city-boy, like Arnold. Satan was easily my favorite animal - name and personality. (“Call Satan!”) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I actually met someone with a Weimaraner named Satan. 😀 4y

Graywacke No clue what Arnold‘s relationship was. He didn‘t seem like family. And, they are all so trusting, he seemed more like a long time acquaintance who uses their home as a vacation, and who treat him as a visiting pet to embrace loosely, like the lost chicken. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat my next dog... 😆 Actually we have named our three dogs after spices. Nutmeg and Mace (Macey) were are first ones. Pepper is our current canine loon. Oh, had she been names Satan. Brilliant! 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke It wasn‘t the animals that stressed me out (I grew up around farm animals) but the sibling battles. (Probably because my supposedly grownup children are mid-feud right now. 🙄) 4y

Graywacke So, Anna Karenina on the shelf. A Room of One‘s Own inspired the extra little cottage - which obviously wasn‘t going to work as Wolff intended. Thoughts on these mentions? 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke It could make interesting conversation- “I saw the most interesting flower when I bent over to pick up Satan‘s poop.” 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Anyone who could read Anna Karenina during a visit is staying too long! 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat sorry about your kids spat. Can be more serious when they‘re older. The sibling rivalry - love and hate. My kids do this - they‘re 15 and 13... 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat true! On AK 😆 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke The two feuding are 25 and 29. Old enough to know better. 4y

Graywacke The theme of the city and small town is the one i‘ll take away. Arnold doesn‘t here the birds, doesn‘t get the soup of love, 4y

Graywacke (Oops - hit send while typing ) 4y

Graywacke Anyway, Arnold clearly lives in a cold bitter compassionless city. This kind if idealized family is so open and trusting and warm. Nature everywhere. No turning away 4y

Graywacke (*hear the birds...) (edited) 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Satan is so rich with possibilities. “Good Satan!”. “Has anyone fed Satan?” “Go let Satan out.” ... (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat There was the country/city dichotomy for sure. But, given the title, I focused more on the way whatever happened to one member affected all the others. And yet Arnold is so disconnected from it. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat yes. He‘s not actually part of the family. Just a visitor. 4y

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Lcsmcat

Kindred | Octavia E. Butler

1. Tagged, but a tough choice because I read a lot of good books;
2. So many! Evelina and Willoughby‘s Return with #pemberlittens, Shadows on the Rock with #catherbuddyread, continue Over By the River for #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell, at least one #bookspin and my irl book club pick.
Thanks for the tag @TheSpineView
Want to play? Consider yourself tagged.

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Lcsmcat

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

The Pilgrimage: I‘m not sure what to say. I was viscerally uncomfortable through most of it. I felt from the first that something would go wrong - although I confess to thinking they wouldn‘t get there in time. Then Ray‘s behavior was so cringeworthy. I could never have gone back! And yet they get their “happy ending” even if it is proved to be based on wrong assumptions. Pic is the Hôtel du Domino in Périgueux. #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell

Graywacke

Graywacke Thanks for the picture. I just finished. I think Maxwell was having fun, but I also think I missed a lot... (edited) 4y

Graywacke It‘s the standard Americans being Americans in France. So there is mystery and misunderstanding and a cultural divide that is impossible to bridge because Ray and Ellen aren‘t open to taking it in. They‘re too focused on trying to match or better their friends expectations. I admit I found that funny and I got interested to see the nature of their cultural clash... (edited) 4y

Graywacke Ok...I‘ve begun typing away. Maybe I better slow down a bit? Well, I have two more longish thoughts in mind. 4y

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Graywacke Thought 2: I was interested in the title, how they are making a religious pilgrimage to a restaurant! And only in effort to up the Jones. The religious aspect turned to something so silly and empty was also playful for me. The whole spiritual encounter is corrupted. No matter how special their experience, they weren‘t going to enjoy it. They were too busy checking off their list and trying to uphold their dignity (by making fools of themselves.) 4y

Graywacke Thought 3: but the movie theater really throws me. I don‘t know what that means or how to figure it out. Something in there Ray and Ellen missed and I missed it too. And that leaves me feeling very American. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke To take your ideas in reverse order, I thought the theater showed how blind Ray & Ellen were. They rhapsodized over how this was a different place, from another age, but it wasn‘t. They just saw what they wanted to see. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke On the title, I didn‘t feel like they were trying to up the Jones so much as see the things they were “supposed” to see. Definitely checking things off their list. Like a kind of religious requirement, rather than something they felt called to. 4y

Lcsmcat What I meant by “getting their happy ending” was their image of France was confirmed by the fact that they missed the crowd coming out of the movie. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat My brain ties your comment about the happy ending and one upping the Jones together. But maybe I‘m wrong about that second part. By not seeing the theater and giving their social commentary on the French, they are, of course, convincing themselves of their superiority on a silly false pretense - as silly as their actions were in the restaurant. But the jones... i‘m stuck. Hang on on that one. I‘ll try to explain (then maybe see my error) 4y

Graywacke I get the list part. What gets me is they are going here to fulfill the Richardson‘s promise. There is expectation they do that and they won‘t be able to be honest about their eventual failure. They‘ll lose face. They‘re going to have to lie or embellish. (This is a part 1) 4y

Graywacke (Slight insecurity. You are ok with all my posts here, right? 😁) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Of course! I look forward to these discussions! 4y

Lcsmcat I agree that they could not be honest about their failure, but I took it as a sign of their insecurity. They can‘t even enjoy dinner if it‘s not in the “right” restaurant! 4y

Graywacke Right. So my thought is their purpose was to come home and say, hey Richardson‘s, we had a great trip, saw all this stuff and also ate at your restaurant. (The actual phrase would be, “thanks so much for that restaurant recommendation.). That‘s what i mean by one-upping them. (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat I mean, if they were more confident they could “lie or embellish” and say they had a BETTER dinner than their friends. But they don‘t believe better exists. So I see the movie bit not as feeling superior to the French so much as inferior. The French of their imagination seemed superior to me, but maybe that‘s because dancing in the square appeals more than watching a movie. 😀 (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat Ray made me uncomfortable because he was the stereotypical Loud American. And I‘ve traveled with people like that, and get so embarrassed. I just wanted him to hush and eat. 4y

Graywacke So, as we‘re talking I‘m thinking about blindness. How many major sites did they see that day? Surely they didn‘t actually “see” anything, they just accomplished a lot. Which leads to... 4y

Graywacke Plato‘s cave. We‘re all blind, but they are manifesting it in the cultural blindness. And, the theater seems appropriate for a Plato‘s cave theme - although that‘s pushing it since they don‘t actually go in. 4y

Graywacke Ray - stereotypically loud _unseeing_ American? 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Right?!?! I mean, they were pushing so hard, on roads that were not the most scenic, just to get to this “perfect” place. And they missed so many opportunities along the way. They might even have found roast chicken with truffles if they‘d stopped in some other town! 4y

Graywacke (Me going overboard on Plato) For them, the darkness of the cave is the French. They aren‘t able to see around them because of cultural barriers. They‘re trying. But they‘re just getting a shadow of what‘s available... (because they don‘t know any other way to look) 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat yes - exactly. 4y

Graywacke Truffles everywhere, and they missed them. ... I‘m hungry now... 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke They missed more than truffles. The one authentic experience they had was the unplanned- dancing in the square - but they couldn‘t let go long enough to have more of those moments because of FOMO. 4y

Graywacke Yes, FOMO. Perfect 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat This has been a fun, thanks. Ready for next week. 🙂 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I can‘t wait to see what Mr. Maxwell has in store for us next. 4y

Graywacke I just noticed. Our hashtag switched from “is” to “was”. (Worse, it was is 🙂) was #whotheheckiswilliammaxwell , now it‘s #whotheheckwaswilliammaxwell 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I can never remember hashtags! I usually have to have Litsy open on 2 devices to make sure I get them right. Guess I evolved it without noticing! Shall we evolve it back? Or edit old posts? 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat we probably should chose one. You know that trick where when you can‘t decide and so you flip a coin and choose that. And then, if you feel bad, you know you should make the other choice? I doesn‘t help me here... 😕 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke 😂 4y

Lcsmcat “is” has 1 less character than “was.” Seems like enough of a reason to me. I edited it. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat perfect evaluation. 🙂Maybe next buddy read i‘ll try for a shorter tag... 4y

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Lcsmcat

Over by the River, and Other Stories | William Maxwell

Story 2: Trojan Women. Quite a bit shorter than last week‘s story. Another exploration of unhappy family life, but also a social commentary on power - who has it and what the less powerful can do. Hints that Mildred was physically abused, not just unhappy. Ada Belle - powerful? Oppressed in a different way? And what about Virginia and her “innocent eyes?” #whotheheckisWilliamMaxwell @Graywacke

Graywacke No more 50 page stories. 🙂 I‘m going to read it today. So, I‘ll be back! 4y

Graywacke Power, definitely, and spoils. 4y

Graywacke In 2016 I read a bunch of classic Greek plays, including Euripides Women of Troy (or, The Trojan Women) I‘m going to post my entire review here, because it‘s an interesting dialogue between here and there. 4y

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Graywacke Review post 1: The Women of Troy 415 bce
A really sad play set in Troy just after its fall. The Trojan women have lost their luxury, their sons and husbands and any hope for the future. They are to become slaves. Hecabe, queen of Troy, morning the loss of her husband and most of her children, including Hector, is the focus as she looks ahead to her future life of slavery. She is assigned to Odysseus. 4y

Graywacke Review post 2: Cassandra, not yet raped, and knowing all that will come ahead, makes an appearance, as does Andromache, who still has her and Hector's son. Then Helen appears. Her situation is in notable contrast to the hopeless defeated lives around her. Helen still has a future. Her speech is striking for its lack of guilt. But her words can be read in contrasting ways, making her the most interesting part of the play. 4y

Graywacke Review post 3: The Women of Troy was written in the shadow of the Battle of Melos in 415 bce. Melos had tried to stay neutral between Athens and Sparta. Athens attacked and had every man who could bear arms executed and enslaved the women and children. 4y

Graywacke In this light, there is a drawn out war between husband and wife. The wife has finally lost, and has lost her home and wealth and become a dependent. And her dependents are lost with her. And Virginia is the contrast, in line with Helen, well, maybe. 4y

Graywacke What‘s funny to me is without that title, the Greek echo is lost, and it‘s a simpler story of small town divorce, racism, sexism, parenting and young childhood - contrasted with a 🐍. 🙂 (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke The title does have that echo, but I don‘t see Mildred totally in that light. The mention of the bruises makes me think she took what power she had - the power to leave - but couldn‘t get any farther than that. Was she then made a slave? Or was she Cassandra? I‘ll have to think on that. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke The bit with Virginia and the snake I had to go back and reread. Did Mildred actually see the snake, or did Virginia successfully suggest it to her to protect V‘s hiding place? The “betrayal” of Virginia, rescuing her father‘s gift from the fire & hiding it from her mom, like taking sides with the oppressor. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat i don‘t see her as a Cassandra. Was she slave? Hmm. I can see that in a few ways. A slave to dependence on financial support, for example. A slave to motherhood. But I see a lighter touch. It‘s not the slavery itself, or the spoils, but the loss of everything, especially of station. From queen to refuse, in societal hierarchy. (But probably I should have read Euripides again before going into all this) 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat was there really a 🐍? Great question. What if there isn‘t? Or, worse, what if there is?! 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat adding to my comment on loss of station - there is a parallel of response to loss and consequences - not the specific loss and consequences or the specific loss - but a loss and a response 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And the loss of community, when the other women turned against her. I definitely see the loss. 4y

Graywacke So...I didn‘t pick up on Ms Gellert‘s domestic abuse. I only got it here from your comments. 4y

Graywacke Thinking about Ada Belle. I want to ask your thoughts on her, but first I should tell a little of my perspective. I‘m a little uncomfortable with how he used her. I mean she‘s a great character, but I think he used her race and position in society for some literary points. Any thoughts on that or her? 4y

Lcsmcat On the abuse, p. 58, “Unless the tragic heroine can produce new stories, new black-and-blue marks, new threats and outrages that exceed in dramatic quality the old ones, it is better that she stay, no matter how unhappily, with her husband.” @Graywacke (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke On Adah Belle, I share your discomfort, but feel like her strength comes through in spite of that. It might be a bit “noble savage” stereotype, but it‘s still a stereotype. Nevertheless, I was drawn to her as a character. She seemed like the most grownup person there. 4y

Graywacke Thanks for highlighting the quote - the wisdom of fear. Very subtle, maybe. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Adah (i missed the ‘h‘ - sigh) I thought he humanizes her when she comes the house and has weak moment where she is exhausted and drinks the water. And I agree she is clearly the adult on the room. But that opening scene - the polite racism on the train. The purpose isn‘t that racism itself, but how it parallels with Ms. Gellert‘s outcast social status (also it sets the tension in the atmosphere). I guess i‘m mixed.... 👇 (edited) 4y

Graywacke It works, but he‘s making a little deal with the devil to make it work. 4y

Graywacke Side note: Adah is introduced as “a large tranquil colored women”. Until race was made evident again, I read that as “tranquil-colored” and spent a moment wondering what that meant. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Perhaps the “polite racism” paralleling Mildred‘s ostracism is as much a comment against racism as it is against the victim blaming of beaten wives? Just a thought to ponder. “Tranquil-colored” made me laugh. 😂 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And, not to obsess about the abuse, but without it Mildred is a spoiled rich girl, running away because she didn‘t get her way. With it in my mind, she‘s struggling for survival of her “self” so the semi-catatonic behavior makes more sense. It‘s taken everything she has just to get out. 4y

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