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The Man with the Twisted Lip | Arthur Conan Doyle
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IndoorDame I‘m of 2 minds about this one. At first I was delighted by the surprise reveal! But in the end I genuinely wasn‘t convinced that someone could support a wife and kids in an upper/middle class-ish lifestyle by begging 2mo
Librarybelle I found this one to be weak - in the prior cases, there has been murder and revenge and other elements akin to a mystery. This one just seemed so lackluster. As I read, I kept thinking something big had to happen, and well, it didn‘t for me. Though, I‘ve been reading thrillers and other mysteries lately that have my pulse on edge, so this could be a fairly poor assessment. 2mo
Cuilin Started off slow, the mystery was interesting. And as @IndoorDame said I also wasn‘t convinced that begging could support an upper middle-class life style. 2mo
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dabbe Other than perhaps Doyle giving us his “just say no“ to drugs policy, I didn't see why we had to be inside the opium den--unless it was again to see how excellent Holmes is at disguising himself. Agree with all of you above re: just how much one could make on begging. 2mo
CogsOfEncouragement I figured this one out, I think mostly because Holmes himself is always using disguises. The hidden clothes clued me in. 2mo
CrystalE02 I did like the story, not my favorites from the others. I get a kick out of Holmes and his disguises. 2mo
kelli7990 I liked this one. 2mo
Aimeesue I like this one. Stephen King also used the businessman to beggar idea in a section Hearts in Atlantis, which I reread tonight. Depending on where you‘re asking for handouts, and your skill, you can make quite a bit, according to those who‘ve done it. My area has a lot of panhandlers who work the main streets - some of them have been doing it for years in the same locations. 2mo
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The Man with the Twisted Lip | Arthur Conan Doyle
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IndoorDame I thought it revealed surprisingly similar attitudes to things you hear today about charity, welfare, and panhandling 2mo
Librarybelle Agreed, @IndoorDame . It made me think of stories you hear regarding welfare and panhandling in today‘s news. I could see this happening today, and it may actually happen. 2mo
IndoorDame @Librarybelle I can see the part where someone tries to hide it from their children happening. I cannot see the part where somebody does this as a ruse happening 2mo
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dabbe This society deeply disapproved of begging; otherwise, why would St. Clair feel complete and utter SHAME for his actions, so much so, that he tries everything to conceal and fake his own disappearance? 2mo
CogsOfEncouragement Red hair comes up again. This time, part of what makes him as pitiable as possible. I have always loved red hair, adored the lovely strands of some women I know, and had a crush on two different boys with red hair in high school. So I never understand when redheads get made fun of. But I know in movies and real life they get told (fill in mean statement) because they are “a ginger“. 2mo
CogsOfEncouragement Making money at something that does not require an education or “worthy“ skill has me thinking about some other jobs that people do only because the money is so good, not because it is what they really want to do. Bartending for one, I've known at least one person with a degree do that because they can more easily pay off their school debt with the money they make doing that than the entry level job in their field. 2mo
CrystalE02 It sort of reminds me of what is going on today with what is heard on the news and everything else. What is the deal with the red hair theme? I am guessing that people with red hair back then were bad. Lol!!! I have family members with red hair and they are good. 2mo
dabbe @CrystalE02 Maybe Doyle sees them as fiery and spirited! 🤩 2mo
Librarybelle @IndoorDame I could see both. I‘m also thinking of modern day GoFundMe scams, which is different and kind of stretches what happens in the story, but if this can happen… I think my reading books featuring horrible people also makes me extremely suspicious. 😂 2mo
Aimeesue @dabbe Red hair makes him very identifiable as the beggar and draws attention while he‘s begging. It‘s also light years away from his natural appearance. People remember the remarkable characteristics and don‘t look any deeper. (edited) 2mo
dabbe @Aimeesue Excellent point. 2mo
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The Man with the Twisted Lip | Arthur Conan Doyle
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Librarybelle Perhaps the twist itself, identifying the man…we knew a few things going into the conclusion - the disappearance, the individual picked up - but it‘s almost coincidental that the two are the same person. I did read this late last night, and as I mentioned before did not find it very strong, so I may have missed a key section! 2mo
IndoorDame I thought not! I think his cryptic line about the key being in the bathroom is supposed to be the “fair play” element, but I can‘t imagine anyone figuring it out from that 🧐🤷🏻‍♀️ 2mo
CatLass007 There was no “fair play” element in this story. Everything relies on coincidence. 2mo
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dabbe I think compared to the others we've read that this is the one that gives us the most clues, and we don't see Holmes showing off some pie-in-the-sky talent (à la Nancy Drew, too) where his extreme knowledge of tobaccos, for example, is what leads him to solve the case. I agree with you, @IndoorDame, that the key line was a bit obscure and might be why we are like Watson in that we never can solve the case like Holmes can. 2mo
CogsOfEncouragement Well, I figured it out by there being one man but two sets of clothes, one set being hidden. But maybe knowing of how Holmes uses disguises is “extra“ knowledge? Maybe not though, assuming you read these stories in order, we all have that info. 2mo
CrystalE02 I don't think so. I think it was twist. Just the simple fact that Holmes always has something up his sleeve. 2mo
Aimeesue The clues were there. Hidden set of clothes was telling. Why would he have taken his clothing off or been stripped if they‘d killed him? There wasn‘t time anyway. 2mo
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The Man with the Twisted Lip | Arthur Conan Doyle
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IndoorDame In typical Sherlock fashion that quote is sneaky and uber specific, focusing on women‘s observations and analytical reasoner‘s (read men or Sherlock) conclusions 2mo
Librarybelle I don‘t think we can necessarily look at this as positive. It‘s Holmes, and he feels he is superior. 2mo
dabbe One can read this quote in a couple of ways. On the one hand Sherlock could be seen as saying that women are not analytical reasoners--quite the negative view. On the other hand, when he says this, Holmes also complements Mrs. St. Clair on her evidence that her husband really wrote that letter, so he could be positively acknowledging that a women's impression may be more valuable than reasoning. As always, Holmes's character is hard-to-read. 2mo
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dabbe Also, for the second time, we have a woman who has no clear idea what her husband does for a living, or even where he works (A Case of Identity). This fact to me doesn't bode well for a positive view of women in Victorian society, especially as, in both cases, the lack of information was because the husband was hiding something. At least Mary knows where John/James (she calls him James in this one--???) is--even in the middle of the night! 😂 2mo
CogsOfEncouragement I see this statement as giving higher value to “women's intuition“ than his own deductions in certain circumstances. Big moment of some kind of humility for Holmes in my opinion. I don't see Holmes as a misogynist. He equally considers himself superior to men and women alike. He does not hate women, or ill use them. Everyone is simply lacking when compared to himself. 2mo
CrystalE02 It is Holmes!!! He can be a pain. Why did Watson's wife call him James though? 2mo
Aimeesue @CogsOfEncouragement Yes, that. Well put. 2mo
mom2bugnbee I wondered about Mary calling Watson James as well. John isn't a nickname for James, is it? Or was it then? I don't think so... 2mo
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The Man with the Twisted Lip | Arthur Conan Doyle
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Librarybelle I‘ll just say again I found it weaker than others that we read. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 2mo
IndoorDame St. Clair claims he wasn‘t hiding from his wife just his kids (I‘m skeptical) I wonder if she ever finds out 2mo
CatLass007 It was an odd story, one that I didn‘t particularly enjoy. 2mo
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dabbe I still want to know:
-what was in the special package Mrs. St. Clair had to get?
-did St. Clair confess the secrets of his lifestyle to his wife?
-Does he keep his solemn oaths, and never take up begging again?
-If so, then how did he maintain his £700+ per year lifestyle?
-He could have gone back to being a reporter, but certainly he couldn't have maintained the estate and a family on £2 per week.
-Maybe he takes a career on the stage. 🤩
CogsOfEncouragement I just finished a rom-com five book series. The last book gave not only one, but TWO satisfying epilogues. I LOVE a good epilogue, especially for a character driven series. But this short story is not that. This a short mystery/puzzle. The point is to figure out the answer, or to be amused/entertained when the answer is revealed. Knowing what everyone is doing a year from now is not the point. I'm fine with the format of these adventures. 2mo
CrystalE02 I found this story to be less enjoyable than the others. I am just wondering if St. Clair wife ever found out about him. 2mo
kelli7990 I was okay with how this story ended. 2mo
Read4life I‘m ok with how it ended given the style of Doyle‘s writing in these stories. As @CogsOfEncouragement said, be amazed by Holmes and on to the next. 🤓 2mo
dabbe @Read4life @CogsOfEncouragment ... are you sure you want to just bow to Holmes and move on? We could be like the exclusive club The Baker Street Irregulars where they play the “Sherlockian Game“--where they see Holmes and Watson as REAL people and they analyze the heck out of every single item in every story. For example, essays abound regarding just the one time that Mary calls John “James“ in this story. 🤔 Agree 💯; let's move on! 🤩😂🤗 2mo
Read4life @dabbe 🤓 2mo
Aimeesue Wait, don‘t you all just spin those ending out yourselves? Just me? St. Clair obviously goes back to his lucrative begging career in a different disguise with the full support of his wife, who does not want to sell their home and descend into virtual poverty on Qa a week! ? 2mo
dabbe @Aimeesue Okay, you now need to publish your dioramas for #thebros and then write some SH pastiches. 🤩😂🤗 2mo
mom2bugnbee Am I the only one who thinks that all of the short stories end rather abruptly? Maybe they had to, because of something having to do with publication? Were these short stories serials like some of his longer tales? 2mo
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