edithwharton

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Finally finished my #WhartonBuddyRead

I enjoyed this one quite a bit and I hope she becomes a nun 💟.

I very much enjoyed the read and l like the ending non ending. I enjoy Wharton's prose very much, even when it's about vapid people...

I‘d have never read this without the group so thanks all! Sorry I fell so far behind!!

Graywacke

Graywacke Glad you finished and enjoyed it! I like your ending non-ending description (edited) 6d

TheBookHippie @Graywacke 🙃 6d

batsy Ha, yes! #NunLife all the way 😆 5d

TheBookHippie @batsy Revenge and peace all in one move. 5d

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Lcsmcat

The Children | Edith Wharton

Good morning #whartonbuddyread! Are we ready for the Children? (Is anyone ever really ready for children? 😂) This one‘s just under 300 pages and divided into 3 books. I‘m proposing starting April 27 for Book 1, May 4 and 11 for books 2 & 3. Does that work for everyone?

Graywacke

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Sparklemn @Suet624 @TheBookHippie 6d

Lcsmcat @mdm139 @graywacke @jewright @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @Cathythoughts @Crazeedi @Currey @dabbe @emilyhaldi @IMASLOWREADER 6d

arubabookwoman i'm looking forward to this one. It's typical Wharton in many ways, but a darker theme--how the children, of the rich adults we've seen so much of, fare, as they are dragged around the world, but basically ignored, with constantly changing step-parents and step siblings and half siblings. When I read it years ago there are parts that reminded me of Lolita, to the extent I wondered if Nabokov had it in mind. 6d

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batsy Looking forward to it. Things are a bit hectic atm but I'll try my best to join in and keep to the schedule! 6d

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman Interesting thought. I‘ll keep that in the back of my mind as I read. 6d

Lcsmcat @batsy Same here. What‘s up with this spring? 6d

Graywacke Sounds good @Lcsmcat ! I‘ll likely be quiet May 4, traveling. But this schedule works for me. Wish you and @batsy RL breaks. 6d

TheBookHippie Crazy busy but yes. 😵‍💫🙃 6d

Currey Sounds okay to me. Thanks 6d

batsy @Graywacke Thanks 🙂 6d

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Thanks. Chime in when you can, and safe travels. 6d

Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie @Currey Great. 6d

Suet624 I keep missing out on reading these. 🥴😫 6d

Lcsmcat @Suet624 Join us this time! It‘s a shorter one. 6d

Suet624 @Lcsmcat my problem lies in finding the book! Hoopla has it but I literally have to wake up at 2 am to grab it before the daily collective quota allowed for the entire library system is hit. It‘s weird. I‘ll try though. 🤨 6d

Lcsmcat @Suet624 I have the entire works of Edith Wharton as an ebook that cost 1.99 (I think. It might have been .99) Or you could try Project Gutenberg. I‘m not sure if it‘s under copyright still or not. 6d

Suet624 Shoot. I always forget about Project Gutenberg. I‘ll check that out now. 6d

jewright I‘m in! 6d

jewright @Suet624–I bought the Kindle complete works. It was pretty inexpensive and has had everything. 6d

Suet624 @jewright Thanks! However, I don‘t use Kindle because it‘s owned by Amazon. I know…my little protest amounts to nothing really, but I try not to give amazon any money. 6d

Lcsmcat @jewright Great! 6d

CarolynM I will try to join in, but I was lagging behind on Twilight Sleep all the way and I still haven‘t finished, so I‘ll just have to see how I‘m going at the end of the month🙂 5d

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Graywacke

Twilight Sleep | Edith Wharton

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This finally comes across as a playful satire on 1920‘s NY moneyed culture, mocking supposed progress and 1920‘s shallowness, spiritual fads, bad parenting and human frailties. But there are real weighty elements here. The youthful 1920‘s are represented in Lita and Nona. Clear-sighted Lita wants to be admired, maybe a movie star, disowning responsibility for consequences. Nona quietly sacrifices herself to manage her family‘s failures.

Graywacke #whartonbuddyread 2w

batsy "manage her family's failures" is so accurate! (and bleak) 2w

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batsy

Twilight Sleep | Edith Wharton

pick

This was like a satirical Fitzgerald; depressing & amusing all at once. Characters that needed to be more thoughtful were a tad underdeveloped, as such (Nona). But I felt for her & almost wish there was a sequel where she gets her own version of a "happy ending". A 3-star pick because it didn't quite stick the landing as I expected it to, but it's astutely Whartonian in how it exposes the vacuousness of the capitalist elite. #WhartonBuddyRead

Yuki_Onna #coverlove 👏 2w

Graywacke Glad you gave it a pick. Not my favorite Wharton either, but I‘m certainly glad i read it. Maybe a different ending ties it better. 2w

batsy @Yuki_Onna It's so well-suited to the book 🙂 2w

batsy @Graywacke I'm glad I read it, too. You can sense her discomfort with modern norms; it gives this book more of a cynical edge than her other works. 2w

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Graywacke

Twilight Sleep | Edith Wharton

Twilight Sleep was originally released in a series in Pictorial Review with this cover, before the book was released and temporarily became a bestseller.

So, what did you think? Did you understand the end? (If not, Wikipedia has it laid out in the plot summary.) Like The Glimpses of the Moon, I think this was a Wharton having a little fun with satire, but here also playing with perspectives. #whartonbuddread

Lcsmcat

Graywacke @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @Cathythoughts @cindyash 2w

Graywacke @Crazeedi @Currey @dabbe @Daisey @emilyhaldi @IMASLOWREADER @IndoorDame @jewright @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie 2w

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Currey @Graywacke I, more or less, understood the ending or certainly as much as Wharton wanted me to. Of course, it is ambiguous as to whether Nona went upstairs to the rescue or went up to confirm her own suspicions but her stepping in the way of the bullet or stumbling into the room at the right time leaves us with the same sense of “waste”. What I was surprised about was Lita traveling with her husband. I don‘t think she would have any remorse 2w

Lcsmcat I think their life was described well in this quote about Pauline: “Her whole life (if one chose to look at it from a certain angle) had been a long uninterrupted struggle against the encroachment of every form of pain.” 2w

Lcsmcat So perhaps, @currey Lits felt the need to get out of NYC and away from the pain of being involved in such a sordid situation as quickly as possible. Or perhaps they forced her because they didn‘t trust her to stick to the story. (edited) 2w

Lcsmcat Poor Nona. All the way through I felt for her. It was like she was born into the wrong family. 2w

Currey @Lcsmcat Wrong family and wrong era. 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @Currey Nona was an unlikely hero, or “hero”. But maybe she should have let the bullet find its proper target… 2w

Graywacke @Currey on Lita and Jim: i think Lita was sent as far from Hollywood as possible. Assuming Pauline still lives in denial, and believing that money solves all human problems and pains, she is still working to solve the marriage problem and keep Lita away from movie stars or other men Lita might like. 2w

Currey @Graywacke @Lcsmcat well Dexter was truly guilty but it would have been Arthur who would be punished. I thought Wharton‘s depiction of quick thinking Bowden, the butler , was wonderful. Before anyone else had even grasped the situation, he had a solution to “how it looked”, and didn‘t think twice about who was guilty and who should be punished (edited) 2w

Graywacke @Currey yeah, he was clever (Powder in my edition ) Pauline‘s staff is fantastic. I had to like all of them. (edited) 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat i think that quote does sum up Pauline especially well. She‘s really intent on avoiding psychological pain. 2w

Currey @Graywacke oh, yes Powder, misremembered. 2w

Currey @Graywacke Lcsmcat regarding Pauline and psychological pain. It was very ironic that she had no idea of how much she was inflicting psychological pain on others 2w

Lcsmcat @Currey Yes, she pushed all of hers on to someone else. I think that was even made explicit when Nona was talking about visiting Maisie‘s mother in the hospital. I‘ll have to look for it. 2w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I don‘t think Nona could have done anything but what she did. She seemed to spend her whole life taking care of other‘s issues. 2w

cindyash
@Ldsmcat and it was horrible how she didn't listen to anyone and totally ignore their feelins. esp poor masie and poor nona. And then thet just all go off as if nothing had happened

2w

Graywacke A long quote from an essay about TS. Should take several posts. Begins here: The rather disturbing reversal of roles in The Mother‘s Recompense - Anne Clephane‘s ‘mothering‘ of the woman who abandoned her at the age of three and Chris Fenno‘s desire to marry the daughter after having had an affair with the mother – becomes translated into obviously dysfunctional relationships in Twilight Sleep. Nona takes on the cares and responsibilities 👇 2w

Graywacke 👆 of her family, while her workaholic father seeks escape from the boredom of marriage in an affair with his stepson‘s wife, and her mother rushes from pillar to post pursuing the latest fads, unaware that her family is malfunctioning around her. To drive home her point about inadequate parenting, Wharton also presents Kitty Landish and Amalasuntha as predatory parental figures 👇 2w

Graywacke 👆 who hope to make a fortune, respectively, out of Lita‘s and Michelangelo‘s cinematic careers. 2w

Graywacke That quote is from Edith Wharton: Sex, Satire and the Older Woman by Avril Horner and Janet Beer @Lcsmcat @Currey @cindyash or others - any thoughts in that? 2w

batsy Yes, that quote really summed it up @Lcsmcat ! 2w

batsy I like Nona but wanted her to be more developed; more of her POV would have been nice. I keep thinking about Pauline's narcissism & how her parenting is actually damaging to Nona so that's a very interesting quote about "predatory parenting" @Graywacke Not to mention Dexter's total self-involvement. It's interesting that Wharton keeps mentioning the "Taylorized" wellness solutions; both Dexter and Pauline submitted themselves to automated lives. 2w

batsy And what's shown as the frivolousness of youth is actually a rejection of that rote life of productivity by both Nona and Lita in very different ways, because different characters. 2w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I think the essay gets the role reversals right, but stops short in my mind. Why was Wharton focusing on near-incest, for lack of a better word? Is she trying to say that capital S Society is incestuous? I feel like I‘m missing something. 2w

Lcsmcat @batsy I agree that Lita and Nona are rebelling. I think Nona‘s is a more mature rebellion, but they are both a bit more reactive than proactive in their lives. 2w

Graywacke @batsy @Lcsmcat interesting to compare Nona and Lita as parallel rejectors, in a way. My instinct is to not to see Lita as immature, because she seems very clear about what she wants. She doesn‘t have genetic baggage, no ties to any moral codes. So she sets her own. Nona is, in a way, tied down by expectations of decency. But i‘ll have to think on that more. Not sure it holds up 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat so interesting, lovers pursuing parent and child in two successive novels. Did i say interesting? It‘s weird and disturbing. But…where did it come from? Clearly philandering was common in her world, but that this particular trait common? !! 2w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke My vision of Lita as immature is the way she doesn‘t care how her actions affect (and hurt) others. (Toddlers are usually clear about what they want in a given moment. 😂) Pauline is similar in this respect. As well as being hypocritical in thinking Lita getting a divorce is unthinkable, yet she‘s on her second marriage. (edited) 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat all true! But Lita is willfully indifferent of other people. They are there only to amuse and admire her. It‘s a developed skillset. 🙂😁 2w

jewright @Graywacke—Do you like Lita is having a bit of a midlife crisis? She got married and had a baby and then freaked out about missing out on fun. I mean honestly who wouldn‘t want a chance to star in movies? 1w

Graywacke @jewright i wouldn‘t want a Lita anywhere in my family. !! I wouldn‘t want to deal with her. Phew. But, you know, we have them anyway - in every family and elsewhere in life. 1w

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Graywacke

Twilight Sleep | Edith Wharton

The image is from a 1916 documentary of the Twilight Sleep birth process (women only)

Book II - #whartonbuddyread

Characters develop. Mostly the Pauline satire (and the Alvah Loft frustration cure), but also a lot more on Lita, Dexter, Nona, and Stanley. We meet masked Aggie Heuston and Kitty Landish. And learn of Cleo Merrick.

Does Lita have issues, or Pauline offended by the lack of appreciation? Any thoughts on this transitional section?

Lcsmcat

Graywacke @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @Cathythoughts @Crazeedi 3w

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Lcsmcat Some quotes I liked. “But when she had to compose a speech, though words never failed her, the mysterious relations between them sometimes did.” 3w

Lcsmcat “Perhaps, after all, her own principles were really obsolete to her children. Only, what was to take their place?” and “They seemed, all of them—lawyers, bankers, brokers, railway-directors and the rest—to be cheating their inner emptiness with activities as futile as those of the women they went home to.” 3w

Lcsmcat It all points to a feeling that the lives of the privileged class were frustrated with pointlessness. And they don‘t even quite know that they‘re searching for meaning. 3w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat on Pauline “Sternly she addressed herself to relaxation” 3w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke 😂🤣😂 3w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat on the pointlessness: there is a link between the blindness of Pauline and clear-sighted blindness of Lita. (One of my takes: Pauline holds the NY culture values even as she breaks them. Lita‘s ignorance of these values comes from believing what she sees.) 3w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke That‘s a good way to look at it. 3w

Currey @lcsmcat oh that is good. I was moving this week. I did the reading, but not sure I did the thinking. 🤔 3w

Graywacke @Currey it‘s kind of a transition section. More of the same. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Not really a conversation sparker. 3w

Graywacke @Currey i just processed “moving”. That‘s consuming. Hope it went well and you‘re settling in ok. 3w

Currey @Graywacke I know where the coffee is but not much else, but it will get better 3w

Graywacke @Currey coffee helps! 3w

CarolynM I‘m behind. I‘ll come back to the comments when I catch up🙂 3w

Lcsmcat @Currey If you know where the coffee and the spoons are you‘re half way there. 3w

cindyash @Graywacke I really got a chuckle from that whole paragraph 3w

batsy I just caught up with the reading, but I'm not sure what I think yet! Mainly I feel an awful sense of emptiness contemplating Lita's boredom and Pauline's cultivated sense of denial—perhaps akin to the present day "wellness" obsession. If one can control and submit oneself to potions and therapies and enforced relaxation, one can hope to avoid one's life? 3w

Graywacke @batsy your question seems to be theme so far. And emptiness 3w

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Graywacke

Twilight Sleep | Edith Wharton

Twilight Sleep : Book one
#whartonbuddyread

Flapper shocker? 🤷🏻‍♂️ What are your thoughts on Nona, Lita, Pauline and her men?

We are in Wharton‘s later books. She‘s experimenting, and she‘s bringing middle aged women to life. So as we sigh at her Pauline satire, also take a moment to think why Wharton spends so much time on her.

Lcsmcat

Graywacke @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby 4w

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Currey @Graywacke Both Pauline and Lita were closer to caricature than Wharton usually goes. Pauline‘s defense of the “dark” man because she wants her retreat made me very uneasy. (I know, I know….the time it was written in). However, I am liking Nona and of course simply reading Wharton‘s prose. (edited) 4w

TheBookHippie I love the prose. I had to remind myself several times the time it was written in because 😬… however I think it makes you think, and makes you feel the characters and did it when it was written as well? She writes flawed very well. 4w

Graywacke @Currey Pauline‘s ability to rationalize all contradictions, even contradictory public speeches, was quite interesting. I‘m puzzling about Wharton and Lita - Wharton‘s controlled prose and her intention that might be counter to our understanding (or misunderstanding). 4w

Graywacke @TheBookHippie i agree, she does do flawed writing well. I‘m trying to remind myself of the time and perspective too, but she‘s making me question what i do and don‘t understand of the era. 4w

TheBookHippie @Graywacke I agree, has me wishing my grandma was alive to ask her questions. 4w

batsy This is so different and so Wharton at the same time. The way she deftly satirises the busy days of the wealthy who don't have to work for a living—Pauline has days filled in order to assure herself that her days are filled. I also have to read up more on "twilight sleep" births because I vaguely knew it was a thing, but didn't realise the extent of it being an early 20th-century trend. The Dexter and Lila situation is ringing alarm bells?! ? 4w

Graywacke @batsy I‘m wondering about those ⏰s. And the births, which is new to me. However, I‘m quite intrigued with what Pauline fills her days with. Non-Christian spiritual stuff, very, you know, 1970‘s. Also, what she and Lita are doing have parallels. 4w

Lcsmcat @batsy The Dexter situation made me wonder what happened to Wharton that she was exploring these pseudo-incest scenarios. 😱 4w

Lcsmcat The prose is excellent, and the wit sharp. I highlighted several quotes, of course. But this one made me laugh out loud: “Yet what did Episcopal Bishops know of “holy ecstasy”? And could any number of Church services have reduced her hips?” 4w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat that‘s interesting about Dexter. Wonder what Hermione Lee says. 4w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Pauline, right? That quote. I kinda understand Dexter‘s affection. She‘s entertaining. 4w

batsy @Graywacke Yes, great point. Who knew there was a precursor to the 60s and 70s mysticism? It's fascinating that these ideas were circulating among the rich earlier on in the US. Also loved that Pauline described her regimen as "Taylorized effort against the natural human fate". The Taylor system being implemented in late 19th-century I think. Wharton's incorporating quite a bit in this book. 4w

batsy @Lcsmcat Right. It also made me wonder exactly what was going in upper crust NY society at the time (perhaps a tale as old as time and maybe no less different now? Idk 🤢) 4w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Yes, that was Pauline. 4w

Lcsmcat @batsy @Graywacke I think we tend to see religion /religious fervor as something that was stronger in “the old days” (whenever that was) whereas in reality it comes and goes, is displaced by various fads, then something bad happens (war, economic crisis) and we scuttle back. The founding fathers were not so Christian as today‘s far right would have one believe, for example. (Jefferson rewrote the Bible to include only the bits he liked.) 4w

batsy @Lcsmcat So true. I'm not as well versed in American history so that is interesting indeed about Jefferson! 4w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I think education and religion have a poor track record everywhere always. Not completely contrary, but rarely hand-in-hand. Wharton seems to present a very casual relationship with religion in her writing. 4w

jewright @batsy I was surprised by the twilight births too. My grandma had them in the 50‘s and 60‘s, but it sounds as if this was only specially available to the wealthy maybe because most people would have been having home births. 4w

Leftcoastzen I forgot to start it! Not looking at comments. I‘ll be back! 🫤😁 4w

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen you can catch up! 🙂 4w

Leftcoastzen Whartons writing is just so good! Being over scheduled seems like an avoidance tactic somewhat for Pauline . I love the debates about what to do about Michelangelo! Pay his debts , which would lead to bad behavior again .That marrying money is a career choice or Dexter can just hire him, like you can just say, yep, now I‘m a lawyer! 3w

Leftcoastzen Actually, there is a lot of history of Theosophy, Yoga, eastern religions in those years. It did take the place of more traditional religions for some people, & some , just a fad.But usually with the rich & comfortable , regular people worked too hard for a living. Like anything else, there were serious scholars of these traditions, and people just out to make a buck. 3w

Leftcoastzen And Lita ! I get the impression she is not going to be tied down to the trappings of adulthood, a husband,a baby. Being a flapper can nearly be a modern “religion”too. 3w

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen you caught up! 🙂 great comments. Pauline has evasion of introspection down to art of sorts. I didn‘t know anything about this 1920‘s fad. Very interesting! And Lita… oh, Lita…At least she knows what she wants 3w

cindyash @Lcsmcat not sure anything happened to her to write those scenarios. Ido agree with batsy that this is ringing alarm bells. Really like Nona,she is so sure of herself. hope she'll be ok 3w

Graywacke @cindyash is this Club Read‘s Cindy? Welcome to Litsy. To tag a person, is the @ key => @cindyash Also, I‘m worried about Nona. 3w

cindyash @batsy I knew about the mystism in the late 1800s wwonder if its an offshoot. Shades of the 70s “new age movement. what was that group the was so popular, EST I think? yeah the more things change the more they stay the same (edited) 3w

cindyash @Graywacke yes sir! a little confused but Im here! is there a way I can get back to the discussion at the beginning of book 1? 3w

Graywacke @cindyash yay! nice to see you here. You need a tutorial. You‘re in the discussion for book 1 here. To find all posts, click on this hashtag: #whartonbuddyread 3w

Lcsmcat @cindyash I‘m crossing my fingers for Nona also. She seems to have it a bit more together than her contemporaries. 3w

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