Litsy

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

A couple more (non-Blue-Castle-related) questions:

Does Missy‘s journey ring true for you? Why or why not?

What did you think of the ending, and the reveal about the character of Una?

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, DrSabrinaMoldenReads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

lauraisntwilder By the end, I didn't particularly like Missy. And that ending was ridiculous. 2d

rubyslippersreads What @lauraisntwilder said. 2d

TheAromaofBooks My other comments have probably revealed that I wasn't a fan of Missy 😂 And her journey did not really make any sense to me, honestly. The whole thing with Una at the end was absurd. And it left me kind of sad because it felt like Missy lost her one friend! 17h

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BarbaraJean @lauraisntwilder @rubyslippersreads @TheAromaofBooks Like you, Sarah—to me Missy's journey didn't make sense. Her changed personality/actions don't make sense in the context of the plot. I hated her lying & manipulation and I hated the ending. The ending doesn't really make sense, either—it's inconsistent with the rest of the book! Una had tea with Missy & Drusilla & Octavia, she signs legal paperwork, but she's a ghost & invisible at the end? 🙄 5h

TheAromaofBooks And somehow now no one remembers her?! It just felt like lazy writing. And I'm still not over the way that we're supposed to believe that John Smith has fallen sooooo in love after whatever it was, two days or something, that he's going to be 100% cool when he finds out that Missy literally lied about EVERYTHING to get him to marry her! 4h

rubyslippersreads @TheAromaofBooks Una was right to advise Missy never to tell John Smith the truth. 😆 2h

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Oh, I'm pretty certain he's not in love with her. He says pretty clearly (and very coarsely) that he changed his mind about Missy when he discovered she's good in bed. That ain't love... he's fallen sooooo in lust. 🙄 @rubyslippersreads is right, Una was right in her advice! She also should have told Missy to make sure she always puts out. That would be perfectly in line with his character, as written. ⬇ now

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BarbaraJean

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

The main difference between the two books is how the privileged Hurlingfords take advantage of the under-privileged women of the clan. What did you think of this part of the story—as Missy stands up for both herself and the disadvantaged women of the family?

What did you think of The Ladies of Missalonghi in its own right? Does it have merit on its own, apart from Blue Castle?

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, DrSabrinaMoldenReads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

rubyslippersreads I actually liked this part. The family menfolk were jerks in both books, but at least here, the women got the best of them. As for standing on its own merits, I wouldn‘t read this again. TBC, on the other hand, I will always reread. (edited) 2d

TheAromaofBooks Ugh, the Hurlingfords were SO unlikable. Who steals from old women?!? So I was glad that the old ladies all got some redemption and seemed to be better set for going forward. 17h

BarbaraJean @rubyslippersreads @TheAromaofBooks Yes, I liked this part of the story, too. I enjoyed seeing the men get their comeuppance, and the women be provided for through Missy's efforts. I think it's the part of the book that works the best. My opinion of the book in its own right is still pretty low, however. 6h

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BarbaraJean

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

What *differences* do you see between Ladies of Missalonghi and Blue Castle?

How do those differences impact the narrative?

How do those differences impact your view of each book?

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, DrSabrinaMoldenReads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

lauraisntwilder Missy actually likes her mother. Their poverty is a shared enemy, rather than a basis for dumb rules. Missy is not nearly as likeable or sympathetic as Valancy though. 2d

rubyslippersreads The quality of the writing. This author just does not measure up to LMM. (But then, who could?) And the coarseness. Obviously LMM wrote at a different time, but this book told me more than I wanted to know (especially some of John Smith‘s thoughts). 2d

TheAromaofBooks To me, the biggest difference was how Missy was very manipulative and willing to lie to get whatever she wanted. It made her character arc somewhat unbelievable for me. With Valancy, you feel that she is actually growing as a person, determined to face her fears and live life on her terms. In fact, she becomes MORE honest as a person. We're told that Missy has been living her life as a mouse, but when we meet her she is already being somewhat ⬇ 17h

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TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) deceitful and underhanded, so it really just felt like she got better at manipulating people rather than having actual growth. The straight up lying, emotional blackmail, and seduction made her a really distasteful character to me. I'm not nearly as confident that John Smith will be as forgiving of her as she seems to be. I can't imagine starting my entire marriage based on complete fabrications. 17h

rubyslippersreads @TheAromaofBooks Valancy honestly thought she was going to die; she didn‘t borrow the idea from a novel. 😏 14h

BarbaraJean @rubyslippersreads “Coarse” is the perfect word. Reading this so soon after Blue Castle, I couldn‘t help but think what LMM‘s reaction would be. The leeches, Missy‘s lies and manipulation, the coarse comments and descriptions—I felt like McCullough took a lovely, sweet, innocent, well-written story and dragged it through the mud. 6h

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks EXACTLY. I don‘t find Missy‘s transformation convincing. The reason for it is supposedly Una, and that really doesn‘t make sense (unless you throw in some backwards continuity based on who Una is revealed to be, but even then, it doesn‘t make sense that Una would manipulate her in that way. Una‘s motivations don‘t make sense, either!) I really felt like the changes McCullough made ⬇ 6h

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) …make the story weaker and Missy‘s character arc just nonsensical. In Blue Castle, it DOES make sense that a beaten-down, shrinking violet personality would be motivated to stand up for herself and start LIVING because of a terminal diagnosis. McCullough removes that believable motivation and twists the diagnosis around into a manipulative thing that makes Missy, to me, a very unlikable character. 6h

TheAromaofBooks And I just have to say that the line, “Valancy found herself shivering with the rapture of her first kiss“ is far more romantic and gives me that little chest-ping more than ANY of the strange lustful passages in this book. 4h

rubyslippersreads @TheAromaofBooks I completely agree. I have a feeling McCullough never heard the saying “Less is more.” 😏 3h

rubyslippersreads @BarbaraJean That‘s just how I feel too. There was really no need for this book to have been written. 2h

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BarbaraJean

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

There are MANY similarities between Ladies of Missalonghi and LMM‘s Blue Castle.

Do you find McCullough‘s defense of “subconscious recollection” convincing (the idea that she read Blue Castle when she was young, but any borrowing was unconscious rather than intentional)?

Or are the similarities just too close to be “subconscious”?

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, DrSabrinaMoldenReads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

lauraisntwilder The fact that there are so many similarities actually makes me think she didn't do it on purpose. She was a well-known writer by this time, since this came out after The Thorn Birds was already adapted into a miniseries, and I don't think she would have been so blatant if it was a conscious decision. 2d

rubyslippersreads I think it was probably subconscious. It started off like TBC, but veered wildly off course. 😏 2d

TheAromaofBooks First off, how could you FORGET reading The Blue Castle?! 😂 I don't know, I have mixed feelings. Some of this book felt like she had just lifted sections and changed the names. But this was sooooooo much worse than TBC that at some level they don't even feel worth comparing lol 17h

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BarbaraJean @lauraisntwilder @rubyslippersreads @TheAromaofBooks Speculating about this is FASCINATING to me. I can't get over how many details line up. Reading it right after Blue Castle, just I couldn't swallow her “subconscious“ claim. But Laura, your point about her being well-known is a great one and I think you're probably right. And I'm with you, Sarah--it's SO much worse that I can't imagine someone consciously writing such a terrible rip-off!! 6h

BarbaraJean Under spoiler tags is the list I compiled of the similarities between the two books. It's a LOT. 6h

BarbaraJean Spinster MC lives with strict mother & aunt
MC has a large extended family who is prominent in town
MC has a beautiful, stuck-up, rich cousin who‘s engaged
MC has heart “attacks”
MC takes refuge in her imagination and in books
MC‘s strict mother & aunt disapprove of her reading novels
MC begins to rebel against the expectations of her family
MC begins to make scandalous comments at family events
There is a mysterious, roguish outsider in town ⬇ (edited) 6h

BarbaraJean Family/town thinks mysterious outsider has an unsavory past
MC is fascinated by MO; he shows up in her imaginings
MC proposes to MO b/c of diagnosis and asks he not refer to her illness
There‘s a mixup w/ a doctor‘s letter containing a diagnosis
MC discovers her illness isn‘t fatal and wishes for the sweetness of death
MO spent years traveling after a relationship breakup
MO goes by an assumed/changed name
MO turns out to be fabulously rich 6h

TheAromaofBooks Also the whole part where he's like “I was so excited to buy/own my own valley“ instead of island. That whole conversation sounded sooo much like Barney talking about why he bought the island. I think it's the details that make me feel like she purposefully ripped some of it off - the rich/beautiful cousin and the whole bit at the beginning where “if she hurries“ she starts feeling the pain. I don't know, I really went back and forth when I was ⬇ 4h

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) reading it! And like we briefly touched on somewhere else - it's kind of similar to the way Anne is similar to Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm, so do I only get mad about it when the second attempt is bad?! 😂 4h

rubyslippersreads @BarbaraJean I love the list! 3h

rubyslippersreads @BarbaraJean I‘m surprised the MO wasn‘t named Bernie Smith. 🤣 2h

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BarbaraJean

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

Several of us shared LOTS of thoughts early this week, but our scheduled discussion is today! Here are some questions to start, but feel free to add further thoughts, rants, etc.!

First, some general questions (separate from Blue Castle!):
Did you enjoy the book?
Did you find the characters likable—Missy, Drusilla & Octavia, John Smith, Una?
What about the antagonists—cousin Alicia & the other Hurlingfords?
#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, DrSabrinaMoldenReads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

lauraisntwilder I will say that I liked Drusilla and Octavia better than Amelia and Cousin Stickles. And I liked Una...until the end. 🫤 2d

rubyslippersreads It held my interest, which isn‘t the same as liking it. (And I think a lot of my interest was based in comparing the two books.) Missy‘s mother and aunt were certainly kinder than Valancy‘s, but Alicia, et al, were too over the top. 2d

TheAromaofBooks Honestly, I wasn't a fan. I was prepared to like it, but I never actually connected with Missy. And I also NEVER forgot that I was reading a book that was written in the 80s. The writing style/conversation topics/things that were mentioned meant that I never was really able to be immersed in the story because it was so anachronistic. I had to look up to see when the story was supposed to be taking place. It had its moments, but the humor never ⬇ 17h

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TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) quite clicked for me. I did like Missy's mother and aunt. The Hurlingfords were pretty dreadful. 17h

BarbaraJean @lauraisntwilder Yes, Drusilla & Octavia were miles better than Amelia and Cousin Stickles. I loved that Drusilla was privately glad that Missy was finally showing some backbone (and that she was aware/in favor of the clandestine novel-reading!). They actually cared for Missy, unlike most of Valancy‘s family. I think Drusilla and Octavia were the best characters in the book. Also Una, but I agree with you about the ending—it ruins that character! (edited) 6h

BarbaraJean (Cont‘d) Valancy‘s family is horrible & ridiculous, but they feel like real people. The characters here—mostly—do not.

@rubyslippersreads Me too—it held my interest but I didn‘t necessarily enjoy it. The first half I was cataloguing all the similarities to Blue Castle. By the middle, I was invested in Missy‘s scheme to stand up against the Hurlingfords (who I liked as antagonists until Alicia ran off with the chauffeur! Over the top, as you said. (edited) 6h

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Exactly—the whole tone was WAY off for a supposed historical novel. 6h

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BarbaraJean

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

“I notice Alicia has kept her choice to virgins only,” said Missy, whose stitch had been bothering her ever since the 7-mile walk from Missalonghi, and now was growing worse. To leave the room was impossible but nor could she sit still and silent a moment longer; to keep her mind off the pain, she started to talk. “Very orthodox of her,” she continued, “but I‘m *definitely* a virgin, and I didn‘t get picked.”

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, DrSabrinaMoldenReads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

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BarbaraJean

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

“‘Darling, you look absolutely splendid! In a paddy, are we?‘

Missy took a couple of deep breaths to calm down. ‘Oh, just my cousin James Hurlingford. I told him to go bite his bum.‘

‘Good for you! Time someone told him.‘ Una giggled. ‘Though I imagine he‘d much rather someone else bit it for him—preferably someone masculine.‘

This sailed straight over Missy‘s head…”

👀🤣
#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, DrSabrinaMoldenReads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

TheAromaofBooks This quote felt a little anachronistic to me, but maybe not?? What did you think? 1w

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Soooo anachronistic! There were several places where the dialogue felt completely mismatched to the era in which this was set (the other quote I posted was another one). I think it was this part that made me go double check when the book was supposed to take place! It felt so off to me. 1w

rubyslippersreads @BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Much of the book seems anachronistic to me. I have more comments, but I‘ll save them for after everyone has finished. (edited) 1w

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BarbaraJean @rubyslippersreads I just finished it and I have SO MANY comments. 1w

TheAromaofBooks I am almost done and I feel like an old lady pearl-clutching at a few of these scenes 😂 @rubyslippersreads 1w

rubyslippersreads @TheAromaofBooks Me too! 1w

TheAromaofBooks @BarbaraJean @rubyslippersreads What in the WHAT did I just read?! 😂 I finished this this morning and it was SO FREAKING WEIRD 😆 1w

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Right?!? I came close to throwing it across the room. 1w

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks @rubyslippersreads I kept imagining LMM doing some pearl-clutching from her grave!!! I was so shocked by the “starting your honeymoon early“ part that I handed it to my husband to read. He said: “Wait, is this a pink-shelf book?“ then his face went 😳 and he said: “A woman wrote this? Your group should not be reading this. It's misogynistic crap.“ 😂 1w

TheAromaofBooks For real, though!!! What even! 1w

julieclair Just posted my review, and then came to look at the discussion. I only started reading on Sunday, so hadn‘t looked at it. My oh my, I‘m glad I‘m not alone! What the heck?!?!? 6d

julieclair I didn‘t get to read The Blue Castle, so I can‘t speak to the plagiarism issue. I‘ve always wanted to read The Blue Castle, but think I‘ll skip it if it‘s like this book. 6d

BarbaraJean @julieclair I will say: don't judge Blue Castle based on this one!! With Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm and AoGG, I felt like LMM said “I can make this better“—and she did. Here, it's like that Wuthering Heights meme: “I can make him worse.“ McCullough uses lots of similar plot points, but the quality is night and day. I feel like McCullough changed the parts that make Blue Castle work so well, wrote them poorly, then made the romance rapey and icky. 2d

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BarbaraJean

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

Just a quick check-in partway through Ladies of Missalonghi!

How are you enjoying the book so far?
What are your first impressions?
How many plagiarism-like similarities have you found so far between this and Blue Castle?!

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, DrSabrinaMoldenReads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

BarbaraJean Besides the similarities to Blue Castle, I‘ve been struck by a lot of dialogue that‘s hilarious, but surprising, for a book set just before WWI. I‘ll post a couple quotes! I‘m really enjoying Una as a character, but was a bit ambivalent about Missy until the bridal shower and its aftermath. 1w

DrSabrinaMoldenReads I got mine yesterday 1w

BarbaraJean @DrSabrinaMoldenReads I feel that—I had to read the first half on Internet Archive because my library hold didn‘t come in till yesterday! 1w

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TheAromaofBooks I just started this morning, because of the no-chapter thing I knew I wouldn't be able to stop 😂 I'm enjoying it, but parts of it do feel like quite the copy! I don't remember the history of this one - did the author acknowledge LMM in any way? 1w

rubyslippersreads I‘ve already finished. There are certainly similarities; it feels as though the author started with the premise of TBC (whether intentionally or accidentally) and then took off from there. (edited) 1w

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks McCullough claimed “subconscious recollection“ in response to accusations of plagiarism. She said she'd read LMM's books when she was young & the similarities were due to subconsciously remembering TBC rather than intentionally copying. That defense rings false to me! @rubyslippersreads Yep, it seems to diverge more as the book goes on (at least so far--I'm a little over halfway), but it certainly feels like she started with TBC. 1w

TheAromaofBooks In fairness, this IS a bit like a weird fever-dream version of TBC 😂 The parts that feel plagerism-y to me are sentences that are almost word-for-word to something in TBC. The flip side is - I ended up justifying LMM's similarities between Anne and Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm - is this just something similar...??? 1w

lauraisntwilder I've just started today and, so far, it's the same book -- but this edition has illustrations for some reason. 1w

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Hahaha... I had the same thought about Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm and Anne! This is way more blatant. I could dismiss the similarities with Rebecca as coincidence or unintentional. But here, these CANNOT be accidental/subconscious similarities. 1w

TheAromaofBooks It's true, there were definitely passages that felt like she had just kind of reworded something directly from The Blue Castle. And where Anne was a far superior version of Rebecca, Ladies definitely was the absolute worst version of Blue Castle that I could imagine (worse, really, because I NEVER would have imagined most of this 😂) 1w

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LitsyEvents

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

Reposting for @BarbaraJean
Here‘s the next month for #KindredSpiritsBuddyRead! We‘re just starting the tagged book for #LMMAdjacent, then after one more week back in the #LMMJournals, we‘ll return to the Emily books with Emily Climbs for an #LMMReread. Tag lists are in the comments… but all are welcome! Let me know if you‘re not tagged and you‘d like to be!

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BarbaraJean

The Ladies of Missalonghi | Colleen McCullough

Here‘s the next month for #KindredSpiritsBuddyRead! We‘re just starting the tagged book for #LMMAdjacent, then after one more week back in the #LMMJournals, we‘ll return to the Emily books with Emily Climbs for an #LMMReread. Tag lists are in the comments… but all are welcome! Let me know if you‘re not tagged and you‘d like to be!

LitsyEvents

BarbaraJean Tag list for Missalonghi: @TheAromaofBooks, @julieclair, @lauraisntwilder, @rubyslippersreads, @DrSabrinaMoldenReads

The Ladies of Missalonghi

BarbaraJean Tag list for journals and Emily‘s Quest: @TheAromaofBooks @lauraisntwilder

Emily's Quest

BarbaraJean Okay, Missalonghi readers, I have no idea what‘s going on with chapters in this book. I have found no chapter divisions in the print copy. The Hoopla audio has 9 chapters. Searches online say: 1. There are chapters, 2. There are no chapters, 3. There are 19 chapters. All followed by the caveat: “AI answers may contain mistakes.” 🙄 I don‘t know where I got 22 chapters from. 🤷🏻‍♀️ So: read roughly half this week & we‘ll check in on Saturday! 😆 (edited) 2w

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TheAromaofBooks I just picked this up this morning and realized that it has no chapters 😂 Who does that!?!? 2w

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Terry Pratchett does that and as much as I love Pratchett it drives me crazy! I started reading last night thinking I‘d read a couple chapters and see how far that took me. At page 30 of a 200-ish page book, I thought the first chapter was getting kind of long, and I started flipping ahead. By page 100 I realized I had yet again made a huge mistake in trusting a chapter count I found online 😂 2w

TheAromaofBooks That has actually been my biggest problem with reading the Discworld books! For some reason, the lack of chapters really turns me off of a book, and I can't even explain why 😂 2w

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks I feel the same—the lack of chapters turns me off! I think my brain prefers defined units of content so I know how many bits there are to parcel out. I've seen quotes from Pratchett saying he thought chapters broke up the natural flow of a story. But NOT having them kind of breaks my brain a little. I mean, you have to stop somewhere and I'd rather know where the author would stop! I guess he does use scene breaks, but still. ⬇ 2w

BarbaraJean The last Pratchett I read was an ebook version on Hoopla and it didn't even have any designation of where the scene breaks were. It gave me narrative whiplash to start a new paragraph and find I was suddenly in a completely different place with a different group of characters. That pulled me out of the narrative flow more than chapters would have! 2w

TheAromaofBooks Oh wow, that would be SO confusing! He definitely jumps around, so I can't imagine not even having the warning of an extra space! 😂 2w

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