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review
ravenlee
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Mehso-so

This philosophy-through-jokes book mostly fell flat for me. I found the explanations scattershot and generally too short to be useful, and most of the jokes weren‘t terribly funny.

That said, having just come off the #DeadPhilosophersSociety buddy read of #SophiesWorld, which is a much better philosophy course, definitely colored my opinion. Might be a good read for someone who‘s casually interested.

review
GingerAntics
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Pickpick

What a trip. This book has some really strange parts to the plot, but it‘s still well worth the read. It will definitely get you thinking in different ways. This is a book that certainly harbours open mindedness and free thinking, even rejection of parents‘ ideas and beliefs without proper examination, so I can certainly see why this book has been banned and challenged by some groups.

TheBookHippie Seriously loved it! 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie it was so fun to discuss these chapters with everyone. I‘m not sure what I would have made of this book without those discussions. I certainly would never have figured out that garden party. 12mo
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TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I so agree! We needed each other for this read! 12mo
ravenlee It was definitely a different experience from my first reading. The slower schedule, and the discussions, made a much greater impact. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee this book is certainly an experience. I can‘t imagine trying to figure this book out on its own. I commend your brilliance in reading this on your own. 12mo
kspenmoll The whole experience was just wonderful! 12mo
17 likes7 comments
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GingerAntics
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Chrissyreadit To expose and explore the foundations of philosophy? 12mo
kspenmoll Agree with @Chrissyreadit but also add he was hoping to reach a teen age audience- give them access to philosophy in a way that might intrigue them. 12mo
TheBookHippie I agree with above. Get us all thinking but especially young people. 12mo
GingerAntics What all of you said. I can‘t think of anything I could add to this. 12mo
ravenlee @kspenmoll hit the nail on the head. 12mo
9 likes5 comments
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GingerAntics
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Chrissyreadit This reminds me a little of the concept of quantum physics, some concepts and constructs are understood naturally and others are so challenging- is the difficulty in the educator or the student? 12mo
kspenmoll Discussion of philosophy concepts etc. a must when exploring it as a project-I guess it is inherent or the nature of the beast(beast for me).I have learned so much from our discussions.I feel I am a perpetual student. See I am floundering- not sure I am answering the question! 12mo
TheBookHippie I‘m such a student in all things. I read most books this way. To learn more than just the words written. 12mo
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TheBookHippie Philosophy can be learned in as much as how to have an open mind to explore text I think. 🤷🏻‍♀️ you could not possibly ever say I know it all and it be true. 12mo
GingerAntics @kspenmoll naw, you‘re doing great. 12mo
GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit it might be a little of both? I never understood math because I didn‘t understand one way to do math. Once I had a teacher who taught me that there are many routs to the same answer, just like there are many routs to the same destination across town, math suddenly clicked for me. I think for some subjects we naturally see the different paths/understand even complex concepts, and others we need more guidance. 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie totally agree. I enjoy being a student (accept the stress of finals 😂🤣😂) and my mind is constantly looking for something new to explore. I‘ve always been that way. There is just no way one person could ever know anything. I think you‘d need a little of everyone on Earth, and even then all those people together STILL wouldn‘t know everything. I think that‘s the fun of learning stuff. I‘m a little weird like that, though. 12mo
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics AS AM I. Wierdos unite. 12mo
ravenlee I don‘t know that reading a book is a philosophical project, although writing one sure is. I find myself agreeing with Socrates the more I read - all I know is that I know nothing. And I‘m so glad all the weirdos found each other here! It‘s a good place to be. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee @TheBookHippie we are the weirdo support group, but I think dead philosophers society just sounds better. 12mo
8 likes11 comments
blurb
GingerAntics
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Chrissyreadit I definitely have a few I want to explore further and there were concepts I had never thought about before. I do see a process where philosophy seems to be a significant product of some types of culture and experience. I see this in psychology and counseling too- how you relate to treatment and the why if different forms of mental health/illness has a lot to do with culture. Now we know ACE scores underly so much of it! 12mo
kspenmoll I was a history major- social & intellectual history. Mostly western & asian.my son was a history/philosophy major so I read many of history texts.Of course cultures, social history etc were included. So I came to this book familiar with those areas- I looked up more modern philosophers as we went along & have some books from my son to read. This study enriched me on so many levels! (edited) 12mo
TheBookHippie I liked all the women mentioned -learning about hildegard von bingen was a gift. Most I knew but studying them again and more in depth and in discussion was such a gift. 12mo
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GingerAntics @kspenmoll I came at it from that direction as well. I‘m a religious and intellectual historian. It‘s always interesting to see those things we‘re familiar with from a different angle though. 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie everything changes when you get to discuss it, don‘t you think? I feel like my brain just wraps around it more and more as we discuss. 12mo
GingerAntics My one issue was that most of what we followed was western, Christian. We didn‘t really follow the western Jewish track. I would love to find a book that discussed Jewish philosophy and Muslim philosophy. I‘ve read a few individual Muslim philosophers and they‘re so interesting and have such a different perspective. They also had more women, earlier. Not sure about the Jewish track. I‘m excited for the Eastern track next, though. 12mo
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I agree we need more diverse readings. I do agree the discussion changes and stretches all of us in a good way! 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie if you come across anything, let me know. I keep looking. I‘m not sure if there is a comprehensive, but approachable book for each like this one, Pooh and Piglet. I wish there was. These are so helpful as a starting point. 12mo
ravenlee @GingerAntics have you seen this? It looks interesting. Also there‘s a Cambridge Companion to Medieval Jewish Philosophy, though I‘m not sure it‘s still in print. 12mo
ravenlee I agree that this was a pretty narrow track, “western philosophy.” Interesting, but necessarily limited. About half of it was familiar from my undergraduate/graduate studies. I‘m looking forward to expanding our horizons with our upcoming reads! (edited) 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie @kspenmoll check out this book @ravenlee found. I agree. It looks really good. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee I agree that he had to pick is battles as it were. I think his background is in western philosophy, so obviously that‘s what he could speak on, but also, if he‘d found some coauthors and added in the eastern and Middle Eastern and even African philosophy, this book would just be ridiculously huge and I think it would lose its readability. I think it‘s opened the door for experts in these other fields to write similar books. 12mo
ravenlee It would be awesome to have something similar for different traditions. I think part of why it‘s confined to this single tradition is to show the progression through history and the influences that pile up. He couldn‘t really have thrown Zen philosophy, for instance, into the mix because it‘s not in the same line of tradition/influence. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee exactly! I wish other people would write books like this. Trying to find books similar, that aren‘t overly academic to dip your toes in are hard to come by, sadly. 12mo
8 likes14 comments
blurb
GingerAntics
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Chrissyreadit Wisdom comes from having a growth mindset. And teaching philosophy certainly promotes a growth mindset. When might the potential change to a fixed mindset and why is my question 12mo
kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit I agree. Some of us naturally have a growth mindset. Others do not & need coaching/teaching to stretch & grow. Some students I work with struggle to move into such a mindset. I often wonder if when they graduate their brains revert. Some brain differences make attaining a growth mindset challenging. 12mo
kspenmoll I think Sophie & Hilde are more open due to their ages than adults. Many incidents in the book remind us of that. They are the wise ones, still open to any possibilities. 12mo
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TheBookHippie @kspenmoll I agree the wise are open to possibility. It also seems some people just want someone to tell them what to think and believe and that‘s their comfort. Clearly. Look at society. They don‘t want to think. That‘s something I can‘t understand. Some just seem unable to grasp the concept of free thought. 12mo
GingerAntics @kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit when I was a kid “growth mindset” and “fixed mindset” hadn‘t been invented yet. I agree everyone has a natural way of viewing the world, yet I disagree that you can only learn with one. You can learn with either, you just learn differently. I guess that‘s why I prefer learning styles to this “mindset” nonsense. 12mo
GingerAntics @kspenmoll totally agree. I think in some sense Gaarder made this almost obvious with both mothers being kind of - not sure if absent minded is the right word, but sort of shrug and go with it type of people. Joanna‘s parents are definitely close minded and set in their ways. I guess we could argue the Albert and Alberto are both more open minded than their wives. It seems that this is equating open mindedness with wisdom, and I have to agree. 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie oh my god. I can‘t stand “my pastor said” or “the president said.” Are you quoting this person? If you‘re quoting them, great. If not, stop blindly following. My god. I‘ll admit that I don‘t understand everything I act on, but I trust the people who do understand those things. I don‘t know how vaccines work beyond the basics, but I trust scientists and medical doctors. I don‘t trust anyone who tells me to take dewormer. 🙄 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I don‘t know how that kills you, but seeing that people have died from it, and science says not to ingest it as a human, I firmly believe (hell, I know) people shouldn‘t be taking this crap. Who gets their medications from tractor supply?! Come on, people. 12mo
GingerAntics @kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit not to disparage it if it works for you or your students. I just know a lot of really intelligent people who according to the lists and assessments have a fixed mindset, yet easily learn everything. I‘m the same way. I come up as fixed mindset no matter what, yet I can teach myself anything and I can learn from most people. I‘m open minded, and I just think that‘s far more important. (edited) 12mo
GingerAntics @kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit this seems to just be one more way we/the education system is trying to make everyone the same. We have to turn the introverts into extroverts, we have to change students whose life experiences tell them life is one way, so they believe it‘s another way. Will that serve them in their actual lives outside of school and after school? Probably not. 12mo
GingerAntics @kspenmoll @Chrissyreadit I just find trying to change who students are is a closed minded pursuit. Everyone can learn. Everyone just does it differently. Forcing students to change or trying to change them is simply sending the message that they are inherently wrong or that there is something wrong with them, which in itself hinders learning. 12mo
TheBookHippie @GingerAntics It BLOWS my mind these people eat at fast food but are worried about a scientist decades long work!! GAH..... Dewormer. OY. 12mo
TheBookHippie It takes out all toxins that is the short version of how it kills you. It's akin to cancer is cured when you die because it's dead. However you had to die to get it to die in you. 12mo
Chrissyreadit @GingerAntics have you read the book Mindset? It is more of a philosophy in many ways- it‘s not that people have one or the other by choice but rather striving through curiosity and conversation to encourage a growth mindset vs fear of the “wrong” answer or response limiting engagement. Everyone can strive to learn- or engage in many ways. Another example of fixed are people who ban books- out of fear of what books teach and keeping access to new 12mo
Chrissyreadit Ideas or experiences limited. 12mo
ravenlee I don‘t really agree with the childlike mindset being ideal. Yes, children have a greater capacity for wonder, are more open-minded - but they also lack the discretion to determine what‘s true/likely. Children are susceptible to whatever reasoning they are taught or figure out on their own, which can actually be really dangerous. Not sure that‘s something we should necessarily try to emulate. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee isn‘t that the point of growing up, though? Trying different things, seeing what works and what doesn‘t, what‘s real and what isn‘t? I don‘t think anyone is advocating for full, free reign for children. I think we‘re talking about just nurturing that natural open mindedness. 12mo
ravenlee I mean that the complete blank slate isn‘t necessarily the best model for philosophers, because it‘s too open to suggestion or misdirection. For children it‘s great, in the right parental hands. For Sophie and Hilde, they‘re definitely more open-minded than the adults around them. (edited) 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee exactly. Younger children need guidance. My concern comes in when parents indoctrinate their children and demonise any thought they don‘t agree with. That does just as much damage and letting kids believe what they want. 12mo
8 likes19 comments
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GingerAntics
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Chrissyreadit I loved this. My kids and I learned and discussed this so much when they were younger. It brought us to think about the world in a small way and how many possibilities exist that we are unaware of. 12mo
kspenmoll It helps with the understanding that other worlds/ timelines can exist simultaneously without our awareness. The dream world in the book made this apparent, especially because I interpreted Sophie‘s world as in real time. 12mo
kspenmoll Love stargazing. 12mo
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TheBookHippie Love start gazing too. We are one layer. The other layers are seen in peeks sometimes I believe. It is massively bigger than we know that I‘m sure of. I think the veil of the other side is closer than we think. 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I agree with all of that!!! 12mo
GingerAntics I have an app on my phone and tablet that let you stargaze even when you can‘t see the stars from light pollution or clouds. 💙💙💙 12mo
ravenlee I loved this whole idea. It gives one a sense of the vastness of space and time. I think for Sophie and Alberto, to go from realizing they are merely characters trapped in a book, to escaping but still being confined to their characters, to specks in an infinite universe…that‘s a pretty cool change of perspective. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee so kind of like the red bottle and blue bottle earlier in the cabin, but definitely on a much bigger scale. 12mo
8 likes8 comments
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GingerAntics
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Chrissyreadit Absolutely yes!!! Years ago I considered being my children to a Presbyterian church instead of Catholic- but the view of predetermined destiny is why I did not. 12mo
kspenmoll I just do not think that way. 12mo
TheBookHippie Such nonsense 😝 why live? 12mo
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GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit are the Presbyterians big into predestination? 12mo
GingerAntics I think it matters, because if everything is predestined, why don‘t we just sit back and let predestination happen. Yet somehow this is the main view of America. We‘re America, we‘re destined to be this way. We were destined to be Americans. Rich people are destined to be powerful and have money. They deserve it. Poor people did something to deserve it. I guess you‘re only predestined if you‘re rich. Double standard as always. 12mo
TheBookHippie Last I checked some believe it some do not depending what sect of it there is. It's all a bit much IMO. 12mo
Chrissyreadit @GingerAntics @TheBookHippie it‘s in the cannon for Presbyterian but does not mean everyone believes it- kind of like how Catholics are not supposed to use birth control- cannon but not everyone believes it 🤣 12mo
TheBookHippie @Chrissyreadit We just listened to a PC of USA church give a sermon on it wish I could find it- but she -the minister pretty much denounced it! I LOL'd ! I was like oh boy......you may pay for this, 12mo
GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit that makes sense. I get not wanting to even run the risk. It‘s not in the Catholic canon at all, but I grew up knowing some people who believed in it. “God put you in this earth to do a specific thing.” Uuum… so which of these things I like doing is this one thing? What if it‘s something I hate? Ugh 12mo
GingerAntics @TheBookHippie @Chrissyreadit oooh, she could pay for that. The hardliners are rarely forgiving. 12mo
ravenlee It depends on how you let the idea steer you. If it‘s all predestined and nothing you do matters, you can go to extremes and fear no consequences. On the other hand, you can dedicate yourself to living the best life you can and make the most of what you do have. 12mo
ravenlee Personally, I hate the idea that I have no effect on my own life; though many things have happened over which I‘ve had little control. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee same. I think this is where we can‘t confuse a lack of predestination with control. We only really control ourselves. Everyone acts for themselves, so those actions are absolutely going to influence the people around them. I think that‘s a really important distinction. 12mo
7 likes13 comments
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GingerAntics
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Chrissyreadit Hilde teaches the final lesson! 12mo
kspenmoll Hilde does teach that dad! 12mo
TheBookHippie Hilde for sure teaches the final lesson. 12mo
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GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie don‘t forget Sophie. I think Hilde and Albert became the sources of information, they‘re teaching and discussing the lesson, where as before it was Sophie and Alberto doing that. Sophie and Alberto are now watching from a distance and not involved, before that was Hilde‘s role (and sort of Albert‘s). (edited) 12mo
GingerAntics Also, Albert was influencing the experiences of Sophie and Alberto with all of his notes to Hilde and the weird weather. Now, Sophie is swinging wrenches at people‘s heads and Sophie and Albert take the boat out on the lake. 12mo
ravenlee I think Sophie‘s attempts to affect Hilde‘s world are along the lines of the postcards and other messages earlier in the story: they‘re subtle hints that more is going on than meets the eye, but inexplicable at the moment. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee exactly. They switch who is acting on the other‘s world. 12mo
7 likes7 comments
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GingerAntics
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Chrissyreadit Im guessing you mean philosophically? Then yes, since the dream becomes real…. 12mo
kspenmoll My immediate response was no. But that was a literal response. Without @Chrissyreadit ‘s response I would not even thought of the question in a philosophical sense. I need you people! I am quite literal yet I think wholisticly- integration & synthesis comes naturally to me. (edited) 12mo
TheBookHippie @kspenmoll I think opposite you so together we are perfect!! 😂♥️ 12mo
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TheBookHippie I would say yes as well. 12mo
GingerAntics @kspenmoll @TheBookHippie @Chrissyreadit I love how we all balance each other out. I get a bit too literally as well. 12mo
ravenlee There is quite a bit of irony throughout, which leads me to the Yes camp. 12mo
GingerAntics @ravenlee I totally forgot about the irony!!! Brilliant!!! 12mo
7 likes7 comments