GrantlyDickRead

Childbirth Without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth | Grantly Dick-Read

bailed

This man managed to figure out that men aren‘t compassionate when they need to be, which was refreshing to hear from a man writing originally in the 1930s. I liked his take on labour and delivery, saying were never meant to be a negative experience. He explained the physiology of labour very well. In that, I believe his claims hold some merit. He has certainly give us something to think about. 👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻

GingerAntics The good points end there. This is a man who cannot fathom anyone truly not believing in the Christian god. Somehow he believes that an atheist just isn‘t compatible with motherhood. I have a feeling many atheist and agnostic mothers would have a few arguments against that claim. Despite believing that men have a compassion issue, he also believes the height of being a female is being a mother. 👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻 5y

GingerAntics All of chapter 2 was completely insufferable. It was his manifesto on womanhood and I almost stopped reading there. 👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻 5y

GingerAntics What made me stop reading this book was the absolutely ridiculous belief that things which we have discovered are entirely hormonal and out of anyone‘s control are pathological. I get that this book was written in a time when that was scientific theory, but this is an updated version from 2013. Update the science. For a book claiming to be pure logic, it‘s full of myth, bigotry, and BS. 👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻 5y

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GingerAntics Yes, this does give the reader something to think about, but honestly, just read a few excerpts and move on. The rest is male chauvinism and total rubbish. I have tested his theory on perception and expectation of pain on other things like Charlie Horses and it genuinely works. It‘s actually pretty interesting. Still, that‘s not worth the rest of this book. You honestly couldn‘t pay me to finish this book. (edited) 5y

GingerAntics #GrantlyDickRead #ChildbirthWithoutFear #childbirth #wtf #bs 5y

Oldschool_millenial *opens litsy* *sees that cover first thing* Well that's a bold photo... great!--Oh written by a religious dude in the thirties and our reader bailed... NEVERMIND 5y

GingerAntics @Oldschool_millenial lol Love your reaction. It is a bold photo. lol I‘m not sure I‘d call him a religious dude. He was a scientist and never mentioned any sort of religious affiliation. He‘s English so I‘d guess he was CofE. I think that was just the mentality of the time. I think some people would still call childbirth a spiritual experience, but they wouldn‘t insist it was uniquely Christian. He‘s hard to explain it would seem. lol 5y

Chrissyreadit His name is what had me LOL. 5y

Crazeedi Omg, I looked at this and thought I really dont want to remember this! Lol 5y

GingerAntics @Chrissyreadit his name is great, isn‘t it? I get that probably wasn‘t a slang term back then, but it goes get a chuckle, doesn‘t it? 5y

GingerAntics @Crazeedi the picture really is an attention getter, isn‘t it? lol 5y

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GingerAntics

Childbirth Without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth | Grantly Dick-Read

As if I wasn‘t already feeling like this book was written by a man from the 50s who has no really understanding of women, this comes along. Ah yes, those overly emotional women are causing all sorts of trouble for themselves and we really must be in the look out for the damage they are doing themselves. 🙄🙄🙄

GingerAntics I know this was originally from the 30‘s, but Jesus Christ this U.S. an updated version that hasn‘t updated its science. We knew this was BS in 2013 when this edition was released. I‘m not sure I can do this book anymore. FFS 5y

GingerAntics #GrantlyDickRead #ChildbirthWithoutFear #childbirth #wtf #bs Why say you‘re all about science, but never update the science?! WTF?! 5y

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GingerAntics

Childbirth Without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth | Grantly Dick-Read

Again, no idea what this has to do with childbirth or any other part of this book, but this is another thing we need to keep at the forefront of thought these days. Sheltering your children does not help them. Listening only to ideas you agree with does not make you intelligent or learned.
#GrantlyDickRead #ChildbirthWithoutFear #childbirth #philosophy #life #intelligence #education #learning #research

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GingerAntics

Childbirth Without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth | Grantly Dick-Read

It‘s unclear (seven a few chapters on) what this has to do with childbirth, but this does explain the difference between philosophy and everything else (especially religion). The whole, being open to differing ideas is really important and we need more of that these days.
#GrantlyDickRead #ChildbirthWithoutFear #childbirth #metaphysics #philosophy

readinginthedark Some religions (or I guess I should say some religious people maybe, because religions are mostly unclear on this) believe that other people are just worshipping different versions of the same thing. So, I wouldn't agree that it's more specific to philosophy than religion. I agree with the sentiment of openness, though! 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark I‘m referring more to the idea that most religions believe they have the truth and everyone else is wrong. Most religions believe they have the exclusive rights on truth. Some practitioners of those religions believe everyone worships a version of the same thing, but that‘s personal philosophy as opposed to the religion itself. Religions are in the business of having the biggest number of followers. 5y

readinginthedark Yeah, I suppose that's true. Most of them (at least Western religions, we could probably say) believe that people who don't believe as they do are at risk just by believing differently. Like Dante's limbo, where only the great pre-Christian philosophers can be. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark yeah. I think once you get into eastern stuff, a lot of it has a religion side, but it is originally a philosophy, so in reality, done as originally intended, it‘s very open. Many westerners will go study under Buddhist teachers and then be told to go back and use what they‘ve learned to be a better Christian. There is a guy in the UK who is notorious for that. 5y

readinginthedark That seems a little strange but could work, I guess. I had a professor for World Religions once who was always talking about how people mix different religions, especially in the East (because she used China as an example a lot since that's where she grew up.) 5y

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GingerAntics

Childbirth Without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth | Grantly Dick-Read

He links this to childbirth in as odd way, but it is a really good quote to think about, especially with the world as it currently is. In fact, it kind of makes me think of a Beatles song... 🎶🎵🎶“All You Need is Love”🎶🎵🎶
#TheBeatles #AllYouNeedIsLove #GrantlyDickRead #ChildbirthWithoutFear #Childbirth #Research #Love

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GingerAntics

Childbirth Without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth | Grantly Dick-Read

Wow. Never thought I‘d see a man believe this, let alone write it down. To think, this was written in 1959. That‘s just impressive.
#GrantlyDickRead #ChildbirthWithoutFear #childbirth #battleofthesexes #meninthe1950s

Texreader Yes impressive 5y

GingerAntics @Texreader we need more men who recognise this, if nothing else. 5y

Texreader @GingerAntics I agree 5y

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Megabooks Wow! 5y

GingerAntics @Megabooks right? I didn‘t know there was a man capable of admitting he had weaknesses, or that women had those things as strengths. 5y

Bookwomble Our current crop of politicians notwithstanding, despite appearances we're not all complete arseholes! 😉 5y

GingerAntics @Bookwomble I can agree with that! Sadly, you‘re also not even distributed. It‘s probably safer for you guys in numbers and all. 5y

readinginthedark My husband is one of these. He has been so amazing through both of my pregnancies and child births and after, always asking and never assuming he knows how it is or how to parent. We learn by being open with each other. This world could do with more of that. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark I completely agree 5y

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GingerAntics

Childbirth Without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth | Grantly Dick-Read

For everyone concerned the lady on the cover looks to be quite fearful or in agony, including @azulaco who must have skipped this bit, she is actually not in agony or feeling anything negative in the cover image. I like the bit about feeling like a lioness.
#GrantlyDickRead #ChildbirthWithoutFear #childbirth #lioness #thepowerofwomen

azulaco I get it, but at first glance, it is still disturbing. You have to read closely to understand the context of the photo. The book is a classic and has some good info, but I think they could have been more thoughtful about the cover picture. (edited) 5y

readinginthedark Wow, this was not my experience either time until the baby was out. ? Good to know about the picture. If you're looking for more experiences, most mothers I know did not have this kind of fulfilling feeling while in labor. Pretty sure I was yelling, "Why the hell did we decide to do this?!" during my first. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark the author‘s thesis is that this is largely due to the way labour is treated in hospitals, especially American ones. That‘s in the appendix, though, so I haven‘t gotten there yet. (edited) 5y

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readinginthedark Hm. ? Not sure I agree. Although the premise that childbirth is more "fulfilling" for mothers who choose to have their babies at home or in a birth center might be true, I think the truth behind it would center more around the mothers' personalities and why they make those choices rather than how it's treated in hospitals. Every hospital is so different; my experience just between my two was worlds apart. 5y

readinginthedark (Not trying to criticize, just discuss. I've been told my comments sometimes sound argumentative--I promise I don't mean them that way.) 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark naw you‘re good. He doesn‘t take issue with having births in hospitals, he takes issue with how birth is approached. His physiology is legit, and he is saying that by conditioning women to expect pain in childbirth, they experience pain (and generally a lot of it). By conditioning women to the idea of bearable discomfort, there is a drastically different outcome that spans continents and socio-economic status. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark he‘s saying that even things like “be brave dear” and “as soon as it‘s too much we can give you this” are all ways of making women expect pain, instead of supporting and allowing things to progress naturally. By expecting pain, it messes with the physical body and labour is longer and harder. That‘s what he‘s discussing. Location isn‘t necessarily a factor. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark He‘s just saying that in many hospitals, especially American hospitals, they tend to treat most Labours as risky and problematic when most Labours actually are perfectly fine left to nature. That environment creates stress in the mother giving birth, which prolongs labour and turns bearable discomfort into pain/torture. 5y

readinginthedark Interesting. This may be one of those things that's an average and doesn't apply to me, I guess. I was actually told labor would just be a bit uncomfortable at first (in the childbirth class at the first hospital), but my contractions advanced very quickly without the dilation I needed to push yet, and I was in major pain before anyone expected it. So I didn't have a "this is what you can expect" labor. 5y

readinginthedark And the second time was mainly trying to keep me comfortable and avoid the issues from my first labor/OB. 🤷‍♀️ So, I suppose the people he'd want opinions from would be those who had a typical labor and delivery experience to have a controlled factor in the experiment. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark but people expected it to hurt at some point. His thesis is that by telling you it would hurt at any point, it‘s a self fulfilling prophecy. I‘ve never given birth (and at this rate I may never get to) so for now this is all theoretical anyway. I just find it interesting. His subtle chauvinism side by side with oddly feminist ideas is confusing and a bit annoying (this is from the 50s after all), but the thesis is interesting. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark he didn‘t really do experiments in the traditional sense. He actually got hospitals to buy into his thesis and the outcomes were really good. There are still the rare deliveries with issues, but much fewer. Yours may have been one of the rare few, maybe it would have been okay. Who knows. His whole thing could be an aberration, but so far it seems unlikely it‘s completely that because of the scale he‘s talking about. 5y

readinginthedark I mean, I guess I'll never know. But I'm pretty sure pushing 8 lbs out of your vagina is gonna' hurt no matter what...maybe just a little less. And that does sound odd. Kind of like when you read classics that have some feminist ideas, but within a framework of patriarchal ideals (such as Shakespeare's plays)! 5y

readinginthedark I did have an excessive amount of tearing down there the first time (sorry if this is tmi) and need surgery now to correct some of the mis-healing, so I imagine mine would have been an exception. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark you‘d think that, because that‘s what we‘ve always heard and believed. He actually claims the opposite. If it hurt as much to have children, people would have stopped long before we ever got to the point in history when we had pain meds for it. The body is designed to dilate and pass this baby. He‘s actually shown proof that the more civilised a society is, the more pain women expect to have in labour. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark in third world countries where women give birth without medical treatment, if you talk to them, they expect discomfort but not pain, and they very rarely experience genuine pain. Their bodies do what all female bodies are designed to do, stretch and pass the baby. 🤷🏼‍♀️ It seems legit. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark I don‘t know if you ever read outlander, but it makes a valid point. Back before doctors got involved, men didn‘t worry about their wives until it took longer than they were used to and their wives started screaming. They usually didn‘t, because they weren‘t really in pain. They were uncomfortable yes, but not in pain. It definitely gives the mind something to toy with. 5y

readinginthedark Yeah, if he has a lot of evidence that sounds pretty legitimate. Except for the people whose bodies don't "do what they're supposed to." And I can speak from experience to say that you forget how painful it all was. Like, I remember how much pain I was in, and my body shows the wear and tear, but it's not like I'm feeling the pain long enough to decide never to have kids again. It only took me 7 more years. ? 5y

readinginthedark And I don't think people would have stopped having kids altogether even if we remembered. You would still have first-time parents who don't believe it will hurt that badly, and people whose motivation to procreate is stronger than their desire to avoid pain. Not to mention all of the accidental pregnancies from people who don't or can't use protection, especially in an environment where abortion is considered taboo. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark lol there is that. That‘s where I wish I understood his physiology bits more. Your body MAY not have done what it was supposed to, according to his theory, because of social conditioning. Who knows, if you‘d grown up out in the bush somewhere, you may have just popped your son right out. Maybe you would have struggled and some woman in your village would have had to do a bush version of a c-section. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 5y

readinginthedark I don't know about that. So much of this is impossible to know without hundreds of years of comparative testing between people who grow up and live exactly the same. Does he address the higher ratios of infant death in historic times and places without proper medical care, or is he dismissing that to problems with cleanliness? 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark no he addresses that their are cases that do need modern medicine, it‘s just way fewer cases than most people, including doctors, think. He does bring hygiene and sterile environments into it. Yeah. He‘s trying to basically make the best of both worlds. That might be the best way to put it. 5y

readinginthedark That makes sense. There are so many people telling you things when you're pregnant, it's hard to figure out what to expect and what's really true for you. Maybe something like this could work, at least with your typical first-time deliveries. 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark yeah, that‘s what I‘m thinking, too. It would have to be a first pregnancy and everyone around her would have to buy in, wouldn‘t they? Maybe he‘ll get into that later in the book. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I‘ve been having too much fun reading other things. This might not have been the book I was looking for. 5y

readinginthedark Yeah, I hate it when that happens. Although I always have so many books going, I tend to just set things aside until I feel like reading it again (with a few exceptions where I'm really avoiding finishing it). 5y

GingerAntics @readinginthedark right? That‘s what I seem to be doing these days. I‘ve always got a handful of books going at once. 5y

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GingerAntics

Childbirth Without Fear: The Principles and Practice of Natural Childbirth | Grantly Dick-Read

Reading this for research on the next part (book?) of my NaNo 2018 project. Why did I think it was a good idea to have a woman have a baby when I‘ve never had one myself?
#GrantlyDickRead #ChildbirthWithoutFear #childbirth

Megabooks That would be tough for me as well, if I were writing. I‘m nearly 40 and childfree by choice. 5y

GingerAntics @Megabooks I find it interesting that in the late 1950s this was the only book the writer of the foreword found on childbirth...and it‘s still the only book I could find on childbirth in 2019. 5y

jewright So glad never to be pregnant or give birth again. Shudder. Shudder. Love my kids, but the whole process is horrible. 5y

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GingerAntics @jewright there is an entire section of this book on how screwed up and horrible American obstetrics is, so that might be your answer right there. I totally get why more and more women are choosing birthing centres or home births over hospitals these days. 5y

CarolynM There are other books on childbirth - Sheila Kitzinger's for example - but your best bet might be to find some new mothers and talk to them. Many women really want to talk about their experience of labour and delivery and don't always have anyone who wants to listen. 5y

GingerAntics @CarolynM let me rephrase: when I first started looking for childbirth books about a year ago, this was the only one with good reviews in the apple book store. There are several more now. Not sure I want to read Kitzinger‘s book, but I did find another that sounds interesting. The only mother (I just know one) who has given birth less than 8+ years ago, had a c-section and that‘s not what I‘m going for. It‘s not what my character would do. 5y

GingerAntics @CarolynM she had a prescheduled c-section. She knew half way threw her pregnancy exactly what her baby‘s birthday most likely was going to be...and that ended up being her baby‘s birthday. I don‘t want to judge anyone‘s birth plans (especially hers since she had so many miscarriages), but I know my character and she wouldn‘t want a scheduled birth. She would want nature to takes it course and to let her baby to come when ready. 5y

jewright I read _The Thinking Woman‘s Guide to a Better Birth_ by Henci Goer. I wasn‘t a huge fan, but it sounds kind of like what you may be looking to find. 5y

GingerAntics @jewright looks like you‘re not the only one who didn‘t like it. It‘s rating is quite low on Apple Books, and the reviews make it sound like a hideous read. 5y

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